Rumours and Stuff

[Bazal]

Maybe missing the point. Alvaro is fine. Good player. I don't think anyone is knocking him. But we have a forward pack where most is in that average mould. Alvaro at the dragons-Dogs-Panthers would be fine. But considering most our pack are just your solid first grade players you perhaps want more from a guy coming thru.

No, you're missing the point tbh. Alvaro is an excellent part of the side and does his job perfectly. He replaces Mannah and we lose absolutely nothing in terms of go forward, and more importantly we lose nothing in terms of defence. That allows us to carry guys like Vave on the bench who are poor defenders but very good attacking players.

Lose Alvaro and the side LOSES impact.

 

[RazorRam0n]

Last I checked bench players are part of your 17. Then you've got premiership winning middle forwards like Brian Norrie and David Tyrell - both made less carries than their wingers and would've been on less money too. There's no rule saying you need to start with your best forwards on the field.

yes mate i conceed, you've made your trivial point again.

outstanding.

 

[Glenneel]

Cake hole wash water makes a great organic spray for the veggies...or so Casper tells me.

Best to do that to lettuce or any other leafy vegetable a day before you eat it. Very tasty!

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Maybe missing the point. Alvaro is fine. Good player. I don't think anyone is knocking him. But we have a forward pack where most is in that average mould. Alvaro at the dragons-Dogs-Panthers would be fine. But considering most our pack are just your solid first grade players you perhaps want more from a guy coming thru.

Is that the panthers side we just lost to, twice last year ? Is that the dogs side we owned twice last year ? Is that the dragons side we smashed in our last 2 games against them ?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

yes mate i conceed, you've made your trivial point again.

outstanding.

I think you just lost sight of the point you were trying to make, or maybe misstated it. I agree the highest paid middle forwards are worth more than the best wingers, but the lowest paid middle forwards in your 17 are not as important as your wingers.

You will note I have used ability and remuneration as synonyms here - obviously not all players are paid exactly what they're worth, but when discussing the relative merits of hypothetical players, all we can do is assume the baseline of a player earning what he is worth.

 

[Glenneel]

Alvaro has made 100m+ off the bench every game so far.....I'd say that's a pretty reasonable impact on the match

Unfortunately our pack have a preponderance of tradesman players......do we need more of them? Hardly think so, need a few big boppers with some skill, maybe an X factor player or two. Forwards win matches and imo our forwards haven't been good enough. We have sufficient skill in the backs but been missing in the forwards, that is why we haven't played in the finals since 2009.

 

[Bazal]

Unfortunately our pack have a preponderance of tradesman players......do we need more of them? Hardly think so, need a few big boppers with some skill, maybe an X factor player or two. Forwards win matches and imo our forwards haven't been good enough. We have sufficient skill in the backs but been missing in the forwards, that is why we haven't played in the finals since 2009.

I addressed this earlier. Drop Alvaro and you lose impact because you can't afford to carry poor defenders like Vave and Pritchard on the bench. It's not about a 'preponderance of tradesmen', it's about BALANCE. Lose Alvaro and you lose balance.

 

[hindy111]

I think there's plenty of middle forwards who could improve our pack, but these are all contracted for next year:
Matagi
Mannah
Scott
Alvaro
Vave
We probably do have room for one more genuine first grader (e.g. Terepo), probably even a star (e.g. Woods). But could we prioritise our top 17 money somewhere better? I think so.

Bar Scott I reckon most the others could be moved on and most contract taken by other club.

 

[hineyrulz]

Alvaro has made 100m+ off the bench every game so far.....I'd say that's a pretty reasonable impact on the match

The Bear is very underrated IMO, and probably only on chump change. He hasn't been our problem.

 

[Glenneel]

I addressed this earlier. Drop Alvaro and you lose impact because you can't afford to carry poor defenders like Vave and Pritchard on the bench. It's not about a 'preponderance of tradesmen', it's about BALANCE. Lose Alvaro and you lose balance.

Thought I WAS talking about balance. Nearly all tradesman players doesn't equate to balance, some tradesman players and some dynamic players does.
I'm not knocking his, or any other players effort, but you're not facing the point. WE HAVEN'T PLAYED FINALS SINCE 2009, and a big part of that is the makeup of our PACK over that time, its UNBALANCED as stated above. At last BA has made an effort this year to bring some skilful players into the pack. Unfortunately previously only Ma'u and Edwards were our skilful players. All teams had to do was shut those 2 down and our go forward was severely hampered.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Bar Scott I reckon most the others could be moved on and most contract taken by other club.

Out of that lot Scott has been the worst performance wise this season. We'll need him less next season.

 

[Bazal]

The Bear is very underrated IMO, and probably only on chump change. He hasn't been our problem.

The other thing people are missing is that he is 23. Most props don't really hit their straps until their mid-late 20s, which means in all likelihood his best is yet to come.

So he's making 100m and 30 tackles off the bench as a 23 year old. It's mind boggling to me that anyone is criticising the bloke. It's totally idiotic, to be blunt.

And Nathan Brown is doing the same at 24 years old, incidentally. Then you've got Alex Twal coming through as well. Our future up front is looking pretty rosy I reckon.

 

[hindy111]

Bar Mannah who is average over 10 mtrs per carry our middle forwards are sitting around mid to low 8s.

Anything under 8.5 is ordinary. A pack where everyone makes above 9 should be our goal

 

[Bazal]

Thought I WAS talking about balance. Nearly all tradesman players doesn't equate to balance, some tradesman players and some dynamic players does.
I'm not knocking his, or any other players effort, but you're not facing the point. WE HAVEN'T PLAYED FINALS SINCE 2009, and a big part of that is the makeup of our PACK over that time, its UNBALANCED as stated above. At last BA has made an effort this year to bring some skilful players into the pack. Unfortunately previously only Ma'u and Edwards were our skilful players. All teams had to do was shut those 2 down and our go forward was severely hampered.

We have balance with Alvaro. How do you not see that? You need a good defender on the bench to cover the dynamic players like Pritchard and Vave who are poor defenders. Alvaro is even better than most blokes who play this role because he almost always makes around or over 100m. Not many bench props can say that.

Our pack three seasons ago is totally irrelevant to the pack we are fielding this weekend. It was unbalanced and contained a few plodders. But how is that relevant right now and how does that have anything to do with Alvaro? The fact is our pack now IS balanced, and we DO have quality players right down to the interchange. If we miss the finals this year without major injuries, it WILL NOT be because of our pack. It will be because we lack a quality hooker and five-eighth.

 

[hindy111]

Out of that lot Scott has been the worst performance wise this season. We'll need him less next season.

Agree, Beau Scott is well past it.

 

[hindy111]

Still at full strength id prefer to see

8 Mannah
9 Kaysa
10 Matagi
11 Manu
12 Tepai
13 Brown

14 KE
15 Scott
16 Vavae
17 Terepo

 

[Bazal]

Bar Mannah who is average over 10 mtrs per carry our middle forwards are sitting around mid to low 8s.

Anything under 8.5 is ordinary. A pack where everyone makes above 9 should be our goal

Not a single NRL team has a pack where everyone makes over 9m per run. Not one. There are Origin players who don't make over 9m per run. 8.5m a run is very good....over 9m is exceptional. It's an asbolutely ridiculous comment to say that every forward should be making over 9m per run....

 

[Bazal]

Still at full strength id prefer to see

8 Mannah
9 Kaysa
10 Matagi
11 Manu
12 Tepai
13 Brown

14 KE
15 Scott
16 Vavae
17 Terepo

That bench has less metre making potential than the one we're using. Terepo averaged 80m a game last season at 8m a run. Beau Scott offers very few metres and very little impact in attack, so you're carrying a 60 minute defender on the bench at the expense of a metre maker like Alvaro.

What benefits are there to that pack over the current one??

 

[The Engineers Room]

In the first two games we used footwork and passing at the line to get guys one on one and we reaped the benefit.

We need to continue or ramp this up. I like when Nathan Brown comes on and passes the first two times he hits up. It keeps the defense honest and they don't zero in on him.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The Bear is very underrated IMO, and probably only on chump change. He hasn't been our problem.

The Albino Rhino?