Rumours and Stuff

[Chipmunk]

That's bullpoop. It's exactly what you inferred when you said this.

Where does that statement say "that the only way to measure whether a player is good is by evaluating the performance of their team".

All that statement says that win/loss is the most important stat, not the only stat..

 

[Chipmunk]

And this is false because I'm the stats nerd. I don't ignore any of them. If your argument is that my opinions are entirely based on stats then fair enough (though it is incorrect) but don't then say I cherry pick the stats. If my opinion is based on stats then it based on all of them. If I 'cherry pick' it is to illustrate a point, not to form an opinion.

Well at this stage stats show that we win a larger percentage of our games with King in it than any other number 9 in the history of the club. And that is a fact. So I've cherry picked a stat to prove an undeniable fact, but that stat doesn't prove we're a better team than we've ever been before. By itself, the stat just proves what is proves and nothing else.

 

[Chipmunk]

We allegedly have the next Cameron Smith coming through SG Ball, but Kyle Schneider is only 17 this year. It remains to be seen whether he becomes physically suitable for NRL but this kid makes every rep team and has all the skills. He might only become the next Cameron King instead, which is still vastly better than most NSW under 18 reps ever do.

He is contracted until 2020, when he turns 20.

How old is that Brailey the Sharks have been playing until he got injured?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

All that statement says that win/loss is the most important stat, not the only stat..

But that statement is stupid too because it tells us little about the player's contribution. Will Smith has 7 wins from 9 at our club. Does that mean he is just as valuable as Mitch Moses (also 7 from 9) or are there maybe more relevant statistics with which to compare them?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well at this stage stats show that we win a larger percentage of our games with King in it than any other number 9 in the history of the club. And that is a fact. So I've cherry picked a stat to prove an undeniable fact, but that stat doesn't prove we're a better team than we've ever been before. By itself, the stat just proves what is proves and nothing else.

So you think my much ridiculed comment about sample size is actually bullshit? And that a sample of four games is statistically relevant?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

How old is that Brailey the Sharks have been playing until he got injured?

21 this year, so it's his first year out of NYC.

 

[rugby league fan]

We allegedly have the next Cameron Smith coming through SG Ball, but Kyle Schneider is only 17 this year. It remains to be seen whether he becomes physically suitable for NRL but this kid makes every rep team and has all the skills. He might only become the next Cameron King instead, which is still vastly better than most NSW under 18 reps ever do.

He is contracted until 2020, when he turns 20.

I Think Sixties or Forty might be able to answer this question best.

In my opinion that's a massive wrap on the kid to be even compared to the likes of Cameron Smith, but without putting to much pressure on him his still only 17yo.
Iv watched him play numerous times. His a decent size 9 nearly 6" foot tall 84kg.
He seems very mature and a composed kid. Can pass, Great kicking game, Awesome defender, Prob needs to run a little more.
But the kids seems like a natural leader, Captain Harold matts 2017 state & national championships. Captain Nsw u16s 2016 origin. Captain Parra SG Ball 2017 to state and national championships a year young. Made Nsw u18s origin a year young. Played Nsw u18s Chs 2017 national school boys champs, and was captain of them a year young and just made Australian school boys a year young.
Yet he can do all that again next year 2018

Not sure when his contacted to but at present seems to be ticking the boxes. From reports He is the best trainer, Works hard, born leader.
Hopefuly he continues to develop his game and who knows what the future holds.
Scary thing is,
Iv been informed he has only been playing hooker for 2 years so there is so much more improvement in his game yet he is still making these rep teams in a position that is new to him.

Reed Mahoney looks great in the u20s
Reed is a complete hooker, Running game, Speed, Great Defender, Astute Kicking game and is very smart player.
Reed has all the potential in the world to kick on and play in the NRL

My only worry is his size, He is not a big kid, but what he lacks in size he makes up in other areas.
Would love top see how he goes in Nsw cup.
But I wish this kid all the very best as id love to see him succeed .

 

[lingard]

Do people think it's possible to play well at hooker without posting good statistics? Do you reckon there are any other quality dummy halves in the game with stats as poor as King's?

I think it's possible to play well in any position without posting good statistics - because stats only tell some of the story.

 

[lingard]

Do you think he has played a statistically significant sample? Besides the Broncos he has faced Melbourne without their Origin players, plus the bottom eight Bulldogs and Tigers.

But can you? This is the point of my previous post. Tell me which stats you expect to see and then we can have a look at them to test your hypothesis. Or do you expect to see a random distribution of statistics through the NRL's hookers?

So which of King's stats do you think would be good? Where do you expect his stats to compare with the other hookers in the NRL?

Agreed but do you think they tell none of the story? Do you not expect that the best hookers will have better stats than the worst ones? Would the stats be completely random or are they likely to represent something happening on the field?

He keeps a calm head, seems to instinctively know which way to direct the play, allows his halves to control the game and doesn't get in their way, relieves pressure with some very good kicks at times - which boosts the confidence of the whole team, and he generally keeps our momentum going forward. Got any stats for that?

 

[Chipmunk]

But that statement is stupid too because it tells us little about the player's contribution. Will Smith has 7 wins from 9 at our club. Does that mean he is just as valuable as Mitch Moses (also 7 from 9) or are there maybe more relevant statistics with which to compare them?

I'm not talking about an individuals statistics of win/loss. Im saying that whether a team wins or losers is a more important statistic than the statistics of the individuals who played or the 'team' statistics that occurred during the match.

But I obviously admit that statistics of an individual or team performance can contribute to a team winning or losing, but a specific statistic by itself doesnt show why a team won or lost.

 

[Chipmunk]

So you think my much ridiculed comment about sample size is actually bullshit? And that a sample of four games is statistically relevant?

No I've never ridiculed your sample size comment. 4 games is still statistically relevant by itself, but is not relevant in all arguments.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Where does that statement say "that the only way to measure whether a player is good is by evaluating the performance of their team".

All that statement says that win/loss is the most important stat, not the only stat..

"Any other statistics are over complicating what is a simple game" implies that we don't need to see them as they won't change what is established by looking at the win/loss ratio.

Are you now suggesting that you have to look at stats other than the win/loss ratio when determining a players merit? You like to think Pou makes it up as he goes along, but you are the master at it!

 

[El Diablo]

I still can't believe that someone seriously suggested that the only way to measure whether a player is good is by evaluating the performance of their team.

Possibly one of the most ridiculous things ever said on this forum.

everyone knows you can only play as well as your hung

 

[Chipmunk]

"Any other statistics are over complicating what is a simple game" implies that we don't need to see them as they won't change what is established by looking at the win/loss ratio.

Are you now suggesting that you have to look at stats other than the win/loss ratio when determining a players merit? You like to think Pou makes it up as he goes along, but you are the master at it!

I think you've misinterpreted the win/loss statistic comment as how many games a player wins or loses. That's not what I meant to say.

What I was saying is that the statistic of whether a team wins or loses is more important than the stats of the individuals in the game.

So the premise of my original argument is that who cares about statistics of players and the team if you win games.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think it's possible to play well in any position without posting good statistics - because stats only tell some of the story.

Besides Cameron King, which NRL players play well (in your opinion) without posting good statistics?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He keeps a calm head, seems to instinctively know which way to direct the play, allows his halves to control the game and doesn't get in their way, relieves pressure with some very good kicks at times - which boosts the confidence of the whole team, and he generally keeps our momentum going forward. Got any stats for that?

Besides the kicking game it seems like something any NRL hooker can do. Just to pick it up and pass it to whichever half calls the ball doesn't take much skill.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I think you've misinterpreted the win/loss statistic comment as how many games a player wins or loses. That's not what I meant to say.

What I was saying is that the statistic of whether a team wins or loses is more important than the stats of the individuals in the game.

So the premise of my original argument is that who cares about statistics of players and the team if you win games.

Fair enough. Apologies - that wasn't clear.

But what you've just clarified is also a strange position to hold. Stats aren't everything, but they are definitely something. If they didn't matter, then coaches wouldn't bother tracking them.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

What I was saying is that the statistic of whether a team wins or loses is more important than the stats of the individuals in the game.

So the premise of my original argument is that who cares about statistics of players and the team if you win games.

Well this is obviously true. But when discussing individual players the team's record becomes irrelevant other than to state that X player either didn't stop you winning or losing. That doesn't mean X player won't cost you in the future or even just provide too little to help the team win.

That said, I think King is obviously a smarter player than Kritchard, and he has more skill with the ball. He's a bit bigger too. This stuff comes in handy, obviously. Does it make up for his lack of speed or work rate? Brains and skills generally lead to LBAs (which I f**king love) but there will be no LBAs if your running game isn't threatening enough to commit defenders.

 

[84 Baby]

In my opinion that's a massive wrap on the kid to be even compared to the likes of Cameron Smith

Especially on International Cameron Smith Day

 

[Dibs]

Do people think it's possible to play well at hooker without posting good statistics? Do you reckon there are any other quality dummy halves in the game with stats as poor as King's?

For what he cost compared to peats or most other starting hookers I think he is great value for service. That opinion could change quickly though.