Rumours and Stuff

[Oscarman]

The 'whole of game' TPAs are the real issue, as they would be concentrated at only a few clubs, and no doubt with the blessing of the NRL.

 

[Bandwagon]

The 'whole of game' TPAs are the real issue, as they would be concentrated at only a few clubs, and no doubt with the blessing of the NRL.

They are likely from or in conjunction with the NRL, like face of the game and that kind off shit.

 

[84 Baby]

I find it very off too!

 

[lingard]

The thing is that TPAs affect the clubs without them because they inflate player prices across the board, but especially for players at the upper end of salaries.

That is obviously one of the effects, yes.

 

[Gronk]

@Mole on the TPA fiasco

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/south-...9f1e-4931-90c0-f5b10a9c4d60?ocid=Social-NRLFS

NRL RELEASE THIRD PARTY AGREEMENT DETAILS

The NRL released the values of the 16 clubs' third party agreements (TPAs) last week, and they raised plenty of eyebrows.

But the figures - published on the NRL's official website - only show what the clubs officially list as TPAs.

Several clubs have found ways to funnel money to players by TPAs that are not on the books.

One club, for instance, has a wealthy property developer as a benefactor and he builds apartment blocks, then sells units to star players for far less than market value.

It's not illegal (although somewhat shady) and the NRL even knows it happens.

And then, of course, there is the best TPA of all - the renowned brown paper bag.

 

[84 Baby]

One club, for instance, has a wealthy property developer as a benefactor and he builds apartment blocks, then sells units to star players for far less than market value.

It's not illegal (although somewhat shady) and the NRL even knows it happens

Umm yes it is, Moley

Edit - actually take that back, the act itself isn’t illegal. Sorry Moley. But generally it would lead to the likes of tax evasion or bank fraud

 

[Chipmunk]

Umm yes it is, Moley

Edit - actually take that back, the act itself isn’t illegal. Sorry Moley. But generally it would lead to the likes of tax evasion or bank fraud

How is buying a property below market value tax evasion or bank fraud?

 

[Gronk]

How is buying a property below market value tax evasion or bank fraud?

IIRC we had a similar investigation with Dyldam and a few players. Hence the grey area of salary caps. The Cows chairperson could (hypothetically) build JT a house worth $2m and charge him $800k. Is the NRL going to have the building contract independently costed by a quantity surveyor ? Nope.

 

[Chipmunk]

IIRC we had a similar investigation with Dyldam and a few players. Hence the grey area of salary caps. The Cows chairperson could (hypothetically) build JT a house worth $2m and charge him $800k. Is the NRL going to have the building contract independently costed by a quantity surveyor ? Nope.

I'm still trying to work out where this action, from either party, is either tax evasion or bank fraud?

 

[84 Baby]

How is buying a property below market value tax evasion or bank fraud?

He’s a property developer selling his wares under value. Before even considering whether a group of specific individuals are being treated at arms length, it’d raise concerns with the ATO (whether or not they’d be bothered investigating ATM is beside the point) that they weren’t legitimately showing their income. Add in providing non-commercial discounts to specific individuals at non-arms length transactions, that makes it all the more problematic.
Bank fraud would generally go the other way, inflating values but still knowingly providing improper values to the bank is fraud (although they usually catch it nowadays. The purchaser could borrow at a lower value to buy it, immediately turnaround and sell it for market value and make a tidy profit. That’s an issue if they picked it up at a dodgy value.
If you’re still not convinced by potential illegality, the economic ramifications might seem out of balance but change NRL player to local councillor.

 

[hindy111]

He’s a property developer selling his wares under value. Before even considering whether a group of specific individuals are being treated at arms length, it’d raise concerns with the ATO (whether or not they’d be bothered investigating ATM is beside the point) that they weren’t legitimately showing their income. Add in providing non-commercial discounts to specific individuals at non-arms length transactions, that makes it all the more problematic.
Bank fraud would generally go the other way, inflating values but still knowingly providing improper values to the bank is fraud (although they usually catch it nowadays. The purchaser could borrow at a lower value to buy it, immediately turnaround and sell it for market value and make a tidy profit. That’s an issue if they picked it up at a dodgy value.
If you’re still not convinced by potential illegality, the economic ramifications might seem out of balance but change NRL player to local councillor.

ATM
Obviously has multiple meanings

 

[Bandwagon]

I'm still trying to work out where this action, from either party, is either tax evasion or bank fraud?

If the discount is understood to be in lieu of a payment for services rendered, then it is earnings that are taxable. Not declaring that would be tax evasion.

 

[Gronk]

If the discount is understood to be in lieu of a payment for services rendered, then it is earnings that are taxable. Not declaring that would be tax evasion.

Plus with respect to property, if a sale of real estate was other than at arms length and less than market value, the Stamp Duties office in the relevant state would be looking at evasion as well.

 

[84 Baby]

If the discount is understood to be in lieu of a payment for services rendered, then it is earnings that are taxable. Not declaring that would be tax evasion.

Chipmunk is correct the actual purchase isn’t illegal itself, but I edited my original half hour before he said that to already say it myself

 

[84 Baby]

ATM
Obviously has multiple meanings

No it doesn’t. I meant exactly what you think I did

 

[84 Baby]

Plus with respect to property, if a sale of real estate was other than at arms length and less than market value, the Stamp Duties office in the relevant state would be looking at evasion as well.

The biggest risk for discovery for a property developer ATM would be under paying GST. ATO have no problems tracking that on individual property sales. Plus contract clauses can cause explosion of problems.

 

[84 Baby]

Clubs do but do players have to provide declarations of income to NRL?

 

[TheRam]

Finally a player who has no reservation in telling us he loves our club. Most play coy as to not weaken their bargaining power for when contract time rolls around. Great in depth interview. He is quickly becoming one of my favourite players.

https://www.parraeels.com.au/news/2019/12/09/shaun-lane-joins-the-talk-in-parradise-podcast2/

 

[84 Baby]

Finally a player who has no reservation in telling us he loves our club. Most play coy as to not weaken their bargaining power for when contract time rolls around. Great in depth interview. He is quickly becoming one of my favourite players.

https://www.parraeels.com.au/news/2019/12/09/shaun-lane-joins-the-talk-in-parradise-podcast2/

TBF the only player that I can recall being coy was Drown, and he just re-signed.
....does that bode unwell for Lane signing then?

 

[Chipmunk]

He’s a property developer selling his wares under value. Before even considering whether a group of specific individuals are being treated at arms length, it’d raise concerns with the ATO (whether or not they’d be bothered investigating ATM is beside the point) that they weren’t legitimately showing their income. Add in providing non-commercial discounts to specific individuals at non-arms length transactions, that makes it all the more problematic.
Bank fraud would generally go the other way, inflating values but still knowingly providing improper values to the bank is fraud (although they usually catch it nowadays. The purchaser could borrow at a lower value to buy it, immediately turnaround and sell it for market value and make a tidy profit. That’s an issue if they picked it up at a dodgy value.
If you’re still not convinced by potential illegality, the economic ramifications might seem out of balance but change NRL player to local councillor.

I don't see there is any law in any jurisdiction in this country that in general circumstances dictates that one party can't sell a property to another party for whatever price it deems appropriate, for instance anyone can sell a $1 million property to someone for $1 and I'd suggest no laws are broken.

On your bank issue, banks determine the value of the property when loans are involved, not the seller or the buyer.

The local councillor issue you raised relates to an offence as a Government official. The only way the crime is committed is if one party is a Government official, these are different circumstances entirely.