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Poupou Escobar

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
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92,274
lucablight said:
You don’t seem to understand that fans would cut the current coaching staff some slack if Brad Arthur had successes like those coaches have had in the past. All of those coaches you mentioned have either won competitions or made a grand final recently. Brad Arthur has one finals victory in 7 seasons. To say that the situations are comparable shows you are completely out of touch.
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I'm not comparing those coaches with Arthur, I'm comparing their club's current position with their position either before they joined (Bennett and Cleary) or even their position last year (Hasler). I also compared Cleary's position at his previous club. You're claiming it's all about the coach, as if he's responsible for everything, like it was up until the nineties. What I'm saying is that it's not the coach, it's the club, and everything that goes into making an NRL team successful.

Souths didn't go from the basement to premiers because they signed Maguire. They could've had anyone as coach and eventually won a comp because they got a massive injection of funds when they were privately acquired. They hired Seibold and went just as well as the following three years under Bennett ffs.

The Panthers didn't become contenders because they brought Cleary back, they used money from the massively wealthy Panthers Group to hire all the people required to build their junior 'development' (poaching) system. Manly have also tipped huge amounts of money into this area, thanks to being owned by a rich family happy to incinerate endless amounts of cash, free of the need to run a financially viable leagues club.

You think I'm defending Arthur, because all you can see is that he's the scapegoat, and you want him gone. You think that's going to fix everything. My point is it doesn't matter whether we replace Arthur or his assistants. We will remain behind the top sides until we are spending as much on football operations as them, from junior recruitment to NRL coaching. And when we do we will be able to afford a better head coach. Until then it's a waste of money to pay him not to work.
 
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Wally21

Wally21

Bench
Messages
4,432
So as it stands today,
- the club just re-signed… yes re-signed the two imbeciles who masquerade as assistant coaches
- we still have BA as coach for 22
- we haven’t signed any additional top 17 players for 22
- and the club expects all of us members to continue to part with our hard earned money for next year.
Did I miss anything?
 
Poupou Escobar

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,274
King-Gutho94 said:
Yeah but 12 more months under this regime could do untold damage that can take 5 years to recover from.

If we cant afford to sack BA thats fine i can cop that for more 12 months. But to just extend the assistants a fortnight out from finals is just ridiculous.

If we get flogged in the next 2 weeks and lose to newcastle week 1 of the finals. The pressure will rise.
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What pressure? The three of them have probably already been told 2022 will be their final year. A professional club like we have recently become doesn't sack any merkin on the strength of a single game.
 
L

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,552
Poupou Escobar said:
I'm not comparing those coaches with Arthur, I'm comparing their club's current position with their position either before they joined (Bennett and Cleary) or even their position last year (Hasler). I also compared Cleary's position at his previous club. You're claiming it's all about the coach, as if he's responsible for everything, like it was up until the nineties. What I'm saying is that it's not the coach, it's the club, and everything that goes into making an NRL team successful.

Souths didn't go from the basement to premiers because they signed Maguire. They could've had anyone as coach and eventually won a comp because they got a massive injection of funds when they were privately acquired. They hired Seibold and went just as well as the following three years under Bennett ffs.

The Panthers didn't become contenders because they brought Cleary back, they used money from the massively wealthy Panthers Group to hire all the people required to build their junior 'development' (poaching) system. Manly have also tipped huge amounts of money into this area, thanks to being owned by a rich family happy to incinerate endless amounts of cash, free of the need to run a financially viable leagues club.

You think I'm defending Arthur, because all you can see is that he's the scapegoat, and you want him gone. You think that's going to fix everything. My point is it doesn't matter whether we replace Arthur or his assistants. We will remain behind the top sides until we are spending as much on football operations as them, from junior recruitment to NRL coaching. And when we do we will be able to afford a better head coach. Until then it's a waste of money to pay him not to work.
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You’re misrepresenting what I’m saying. Neither I, nor any other fan has claimed that changing the coach is going to “fix everything”. What most of the fans who are being critical can see is that the current coach has had more than enough opportunities to take this club to the top and it seems unlikely that we are going to improve if things stay the same. If we change the coach we may improve or we may not but at least improvement would then be a possibility which is seems apparent it is not under the current setup.

I also reject your narrative about us being some kind of minnow compared to all the rich clubs. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be a powerhouse of the NRL. We are the most watched team on television, have more members than any other club and have a junior nursery which is the envy of most NRL clubs. Generally speaking NRL clubs that are struggling don’t have the funds to cheat the salary cap. If we are struggling in relation to resources then it is almost certainly because of the leaderships inability to manage them and not because of a lack of them.

You also gave examples of the Panthers, Roosters and Sea Eagles who have all made finals and not made finals during the time of having all those resources. That’s exactly my point. Sometimes you have a poor season and sometimes you have a good season. The question is whether you are heading in the right direction or whether you need to change things. All of those clubs made changes when they realised they were not going to improve unless something was done i.e replacing Macguire (despite winning a premiership a few years earlier), replacing Griffin, replacing Barrett. Lo and behold they’re all in better positions than they were after making the change. They didn’t make excuses for their slide into mediocrity but took action to try and fix it.
 
Poupou Escobar

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,274
Except clubs have also not changed the coach and still improved:
Roosters won six games in 2016 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Raiders missed the finals in 2017 and 2018 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Eels won six games in 2018 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Manly were bottom four last year (7 wins) but kept Hasler. Look at them now.

Teams have also sacked the coach and not improved:
The Bulldogs missed the finals in 2017 and sacked Hasler, and they've been in freefall ever since.
The Cowboys missed the finals in 2018 and 2019 and sacked Green, and they haven't improved under Payten.

I also never called us minnows. We are a good club, just not as strong as some others. The PLC only managed to remain profitable last year by cutting their grant to us by 40%
 
L

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,552
Poupou Escobar said:
Except clubs have also not changed the coach and still improved:
Roosters won six games in 2016 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Raiders missed the finals in 2017 and 2018 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Eels won six games in 2018 and kept the coach, who turned it around.
Manly were bottom four last year (7 wins) but kept Hasler. Look at them now.

Teams have also sacked the coach and not improved:
The Bulldogs missed the finals in 2017 and sacked Hasler, and they've been in freefall ever since.
The Cowboys missed the finals in 2018 and 2019 and sacked Green, and they haven't improved under Payten.

I also never called us minnows. We are a good club, just not as strong as some others. The PLC only managed to remain profitable last year by cutting their grant to us by 40%
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The Roosters won 2 competitions after that. Do you really think Robinson would have retained his job if he continuously bowed out in week 2 of the finals?
I wouldn’t begrudge Raiders fans for wanting a change from Ricky Stuart but everyone knows he’s safe there because of his relationship with Furner. Even then Ricky hasn’t won any spoons and he has reached a grand final qualifier and was minutes away from winning a grand final.
Des Hasler was in his first season back at Manly. They weren’t going to sack him after one poor season. His head was most certainly on the chopping block if their early season form continued into his second season. Brad Arthur has had 7 seasons.
That 2018 Eels side should never have finished last. We also surrendered really meekly in week 2 of that next seasons finals series against a Storm side that didn’t make the grand final.
The Bulldogs and Cowboys obviously don’t have the roster quality to be competitive at this stage. Barrett and Payten are into their first years as coaches so it’s too early to say they should be replaced. They will be judged when they have better cattle to work with.
 
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