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Rumours and Stuff

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,100
Yeah exactly. The coach isn't the cause of any of that, he is just another symptom.

Oh so if crappy management has hired the wrong guy as head coach, it's ok to just keep him on because it isn't his fault that he was hired? Oh right, I see great pou logic there. If you are in shit for no reason of your own just stay in it and Hell why not just make the best of it and eat it and learn to enjoy it too.

Cool pou now I see where you are coming from mate and get your moniker even more.

Me and I suspect most others on here would rather make changes no matter how bad our management maybe, that way at least by some dumb luck we may end up unearthing a high quality merkin/s that may be good enough to turn the place around.

No change means, wait for it.............................................NO F**KING CHANGE MERKIN!!!
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,100
Well given the different levels of success experienced by different coaches at different clubs, the first thing you should question is whether all clubs are equally capable of success. Michael Maguire won a premiership at Souths yet can't get the Tigers into the finals. Yet Wayne Bennett hasn't won anything with Souths, and only got Newcastle to the finals once in three years. How do you reckon Bennett would go at Wests? Better than Maguire? He hasn't achieved as much at Souths as Maguire did.

Bennett for around 10 years now hasn't been into building a club from the bottom up. He wants the rough diamond that just needs to be polished and he can do that almost better then anyone.

So going to the Knights or the Tigers was and would be the wrong move and could actually be a total club destroying appointment from a development point of view.

I actually question at this point of his life if he is up to and motivated enough to take on the head coaching role of the new QLD team if it were ever to be given the green light?

He would have to totally readjust his motivation and commitment to the level of his earlier days at the Broncos. Is he up to that type of 24 hour, day in day out slog fest at this point in life? I don't know. What I do know though is that he is going to need a hell of a lot of quality people around him that he can delegate to to make it work. He would have to be more like a traffic cop I think.

But hey, that is someone else's problem if it ever happens, not mine.

Oh on how he would go at the Tigers? He would at least be able to recruit better over a 2-3 year period I would think and he did get the Knights to the finals once.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
Around we go with the Pou shuffle, nothing ever really matters it’s no ones fault and there should be no consequences whatsoever. If he had his way Kearney would be Parramatta’s longest serving ever coach. Big face forever!!
Ask yourself why we never sign in-demand coaches. Do you think the people who do the hiring at our club haven't known who the best coaches are since Gibson left?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
I’d say we’re in a much better position than those Knights and Tigers sides. They were never realistically a chance of doing anything in the finals. Our roster is way above the level
of being a fringe finals side. Wayne has also taken Souths to a minimum of one game within the grand final the past three seasons. That’s a pretty good effort. I’m sure if he was at Souths for 8 seasons and didn’t win a competition at some stage that his position would come under scrutiny. Maguire obviously did a good job with the roster he walked into at Souths but he stagnated there and he hasn’t done a very good job at building a team at the Tigers. If it was as simple as him simply not having the players his position wouldn’t be under scrutiny. Even Cleary’s position will come into question if they go out in straight sets after being so dominant the last two seasons.
If you look at our roster I’d say we underachieved during the regular season by finishing sixth. We’re certainly a better side than the fifth placed injury ravaged Roosters. I’d argue we’re a better side than the fourth placed Sea Eagles as well.
As I said repeatedly you can’t continue to be happy by losing to teams you’re “supposed to” lose to every finals series. There comes a point where you have to expect more. Otherwise we might as well award them premiership to the bookies favourite at the beginning of every season.
Expecting more is fine, but there are people above the coach who are responsible for generating the resources the club needs to compete on the field. Part of their job is to hire coaching resources. But sacking coaching staff without bringing in more or better staff isn't going to improve anything. It is scapegoating pure and simple, and sports administrators have been doing it to cover their arses for decades.
 

SneakyEel

Juniors
Messages
200
Is Will signed for next year?
We have Stone who would probably play the 14 role going forward.

Bryce will still be our person if we need to score points.
I really like Stone if he adds another 5kg to his frame he could play a Brandon Smith or Radley role. Come on run hard and smash blokes. In the Penrith game where he started at lock, I also sort a bit of ball-playing ability from him as well think he'll have a big year in 2022.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,100
I really like Stone if he adds another 5kg to his frame he could play a Brandon Smith or Radley role. Come on run hard and smash blokes. In the Penrith game where he started at lock, I also sort a bit of ball-playing ability from him as well think he'll have a big year in 2022.

Mate he is not the sort of player you should be counting on doing or being anything just yet. He can still go either way.

Oh we already have a Radley or Smith kind of player, we just don't play him that way. We play him as a predictable merkin taking the 4th hitup most times. What we should be doing is focusing his game on being more like the game against the Storm 3 weeks ago. Now that is the N. Brown I want to see playing every week.
 

The Eel

Juniors
Messages
207
Is Will signed for next year?
We have Stone who would probably play the 14 role going forward.

Bryce will still be our person if we need to score points.
There was talk quite a while ago that Will was going to be re signed, but I haven't seen or heard a confirmation. Anyone?
 

Tooooks

Juniors
Messages
2,401
I really like Stone if he adds another 5kg to his frame he could play a Brandon Smith or Radley role. Come on run hard and smash blokes. In the Penrith game where he started at lock, I also sort a bit of ball-playing ability from him as well think he'll have a big year in 2022.
He already weighs more than Radley.

Brandon Smith: 180cm 94kg.
Ray Stone: 180cm 95kg.

His size isn’t the issue. He needs to develop more skills to go to the next level. Whether he and our coaching staff are up to that challenge is the big question.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
Otherwise we might as well award them premiership to the bookies favourite at the beginning of every season.
But now you're conflating what we want to achieve (a premiership) with what is realistically expectable. Of course the coaches and players are going to blame themselves if they don't win the comp, because that's all they can do. If they were able to admit that they did their best and still lost they shouldn't be playing pro sports.

But fans like yourself are looking for a single person to take all the blame. It's classic fall-on-your-sword scapegoating. Do you really think the Tigers management is being objective when they keep sacking coaches that can't get them to the finals? As if that's the problem holding them back? Half their top 17 are reserve graders, year after year, because they need to pay overs for players. That's not the coach's fault. But he's the one who'll get the blame. It's the same at less shit clubs like Parramatta and Penrith when they don't win premierships. Merkins want to blame Cleary when his team can't beat privately owned money pits like Melbourne or Souths in a finals match.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,100
So why then?

Because we had basket case officials that had put their self interests ahead of the club. Very difficult getting the best in when you are self harming that way.

Anyway we are past all that now and our club is now seen as a well run, stable organisation. All we need to do now is start aspiring to be the best and start hiring in the same vain.

Money is not the issue since all clubs are on the same non player salary limit of $5m. I heard Bellamy quip at a player meeting that the club needs to fit all the non player salaries into the $5m limit and the players were joking that he has taken the lion share of that.

So we too can do that right? Since we don't have the opportunity to hire Bellamy or Robinson at this very moment, we should be looking at the very best assistants that we can bring in, not sticking with the ones that we have had for so long with very few big game wins to show for it and many players in my opinion not playing to their full potential. Or game plans that when plan A isn't working, there is no plan B. The best coaches and assistant coaches have B plans and more and drill the squad endlessly to be able to execute them when needed.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
60,637
Because we had basket case officials that had put their self interests ahead of the club. Very difficult getting the best in when you are self harming that way.

Anyway we are past all that now and our club is now seen as a well run, stable organisation. All we need to do now is start aspiring to be the best and start hiring in the same vain.

Money is not the issue since all clubs are on the same non player salary limit of $5m. I heard Bellamy quip at a player meeting that the club needs to fit all the non player salaries into the $5m limit and the players were joking that he has taken the lion share of that.

So we too can do that right? Since we don't have the opportunity to hire Bellamy or Robinson at this very moment, we should be looking at the very best assistants that we can bring in, not sticking with the ones that we have had for so long with very few big game wins to show for it and many players in my opinion not playing to their full potential. Or game plans that when plan A isn't working, there is no plan B. The best coaches and assistant coaches have B plans and more and drill the squad endlessly to be able to execute them when needed.
Do you have an insight into what role our assistants have at the club or are you just guessing ? You make it sound like the assistants dictate how we attack and how we defend. Do you think that other assistants tell Bellamy or Robinson or Bennett how the team attacks ? Or do they run training and skills based on the head coach's instructions ?

Keen to hear your thoughts (without the usual condescending sarcasm if possible).
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
Oh so if crappy management has hired the wrong guy as head coach, it's ok to just keep him on because it isn't his fault that he was hired? Oh right, I see great pou logic there.
You don't see any logic because you don't understand the problem. It's not about hiring the 'wrong guy' as though there's some magical 'right guy' who will reliably win a premiership with a club outside the top tier. NRL success is about resources not personalities. That's the myth that has been perpetuated by our working class fans and players, and the pundits that sell the most media to them.

Don't misrepresent me, I'm not saying leadership (a personality trait at the level of the individual) doesn't matter, but rather that it is a resource that can be hired with money, meaning there is a competitive market for it, like there is for everything else.

We know Brad Arthur isn't a top tier coach, because he hasn't been poached by a top tier club. It's also how we know the rest of our coaching staff aren't the best. If they were they would be at clubs able to pay more. We've seen that with members of our staff who have been poached in the past. If they're good they end up at clubs like the Roosters. Likewise, the Chooks don't have their assistant coaches poached to be assistants at other clubs, they only leave to become head coaches, where the gaining club hopes they can learn how to implement the Roosters' systems (but on a fraction of the budget). It's the same with the Storm. Their best assistants only go to poorer clubs to try their luck with fewer resources. Otherwise they stay in Melbourne as assistants.

Wondering about whether they're the right guy or the wrong guy completely misses the point. If they want a real shot at winning they need to get some cash together and put it all in for a couple of years, like the Dragons and Knights tried to do with Bennett and all the staff he requires. It'll either pay off or it won't, but either way the cost will impoverish the club for several years afterwards. This is how it seems Bennett and Hasler (and Green and Flanagan) appear to leave clubs in poor shape. It's because the money ran out and they needed years to get their books right.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
Bennett for around 10 years now hasn't been into building a club from the bottom up. He wants the rough diamond that just needs to be polished and he can do that almost better then anyone.

So going to the Knights or the Tigers was and would be the wrong move and could actually be a total club destroying appointment from a development point of view.

I actually question at this point of his life if he is up to and motivated enough to take on the head coaching role of the new QLD team if it were ever to be given the green light?

He would have to totally readjust his motivation and commitment to the level of his earlier days at the Broncos. Is he up to that type of 24 hour, day in day out slog fest at this point in life? I don't know. What I do know though is that he is going to need a hell of a lot of quality people around him that he can delegate to to make it work. He would have to be more like a traffic cop I think.
Just my point. No different to his current gig, he will want the club to provide plenty of resources (staff and facilities) so he can delegate instead of doing it all himself. Those resources cost money, which is how those clubs afford coaches like Bennett in the first place.
But hey, that is someone else's problem if it ever happens, not mine.

Oh on how he would go at the Tigers? He would at least be able to recruit better over a 2-3 year period I would think and he did get the Knights to the finals once.
The Knights made the finals in two of the previous three years before he arrived ffs
 
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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,461
Because we had basket case officials that had put their self interests ahead of the club. Very difficult getting the best in when you are self harming that way.

Anyway we are past all that now and our club is now seen as a well run, stable organisation. All we need to do now is start aspiring to be the best and start hiring in the same vain.

Money is not the issue since all clubs are on the same non player salary limit of $5m. I heard Bellamy quip at a player meeting that the club needs to fit all the non player salaries into the $5m limit and the players were joking that he has taken the lion share of that.

So we too can do that right? Since we don't have the opportunity to hire Bellamy or Robinson at this very moment, we should be looking at the very best assistants that we can bring in, not sticking with the ones that we have had for so long with very few big game wins to show for it and many players in my opinion not playing to their full potential. Or game plans that when plan A isn't working, there is no plan B. The best coaches and assistant coaches have B plans and more and drill the squad endlessly to be able to execute them when needed.
Salary caps don't take into account the advantage of facilities or other intangibles (career and investment opportunities, for example) and salary caps are inherently broken when one team has to pay more for players and staff than others.
 
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