Rumours and Stuff

[hineyrulz]

Not really ... the salaries of 12 good players and 18 others might be on par with the salaries if 2 stars, 6 good players and 22 others

Having a strong squad across the park costs money

Question is whether one way or the other is a winning combination

So far you'd have to say thats a no.

 

[strider]

What we should have done is offered him around $600K way back in April-May and I'm sure that he would have taken the deal after a little haggling. It is pretty obvious to me by way of all the time and wrestling with his conscious he had trying to come to a decision. But by waiting like a bunch of fools thinking that loyalty will trump CASH once there is an open auction and larger offers are waved in front of your face, they totally ballsed it up.

He is a fairly loyal type of guy, so I have very little doubt that around $600K would have made him happy and he would have taken it, but when you are lowballed at a time when your predator competitors are allowed to show you the money, well it changes everything and even the more loyal start to thinks twice, especially when you have a merkin manager in your ear telling you to work the negotiations till you get the lottery size winning offer.

Bottom line is our club blew it back in March-April-May and June when the majority of all our re-signings should have been done. I reckon both Papalii and Mahoney would have signed for around 500K and 600K respectively. By lowballing and letting other clubs serenade and flash lager offers in front of them, which makes them realised actual earnings and losses, then it makes it to hard for the player to ignore and much easier for the manager to persuade him to jump ship.

Bad management strategy in the battle to secure our talent. I hope we have learnt a major lesson here and never let this type of perfect storm shit happen again. We need to be much better at this or these type of headlines and outcomes will never cease.

Maybe offering 600k in april would have done nothing other than make his manager think he could get 700k+???

Id guess we probably made some attempt to make earlier offers ... but maybe his manager didnt want to hear about it until he could "officially" test the market

 

[Eelementary]

*Jrthur

Contrary to many on here, I reckon Jake has a bright future ahead of him.

But he needs to get used to the speed of First Grade, and hit the weights.

Still - he's only 19. Plenty of time to develop.

But what I saw from this year, I saw a player with a good football brain, some athleticism, and a decent kicking game.

Give him a year, or two, and let's see where he is at.

 

[Bandwagon]

What we should have done is offered him around $600K way back in April-May and I'm sure that he would have taken the deal after a little haggling. It is pretty obvious to me by way of all the time and wrestling with his conscious he had trying to come to a decision. But by waiting like a bunch of fools thinking that loyalty will trump CASH once there is an open auction and larger offers are waved in front of your face, they totally ballsed it up.

He is a fairly loyal type of guy, so I have very little doubt that around $600K would have made him happy and he would have taken it, but when you are lowballed at a time when your predator competitors are allowed to show you the money, well it changes everything and even the more loyal start to thinks twice, especially when you have a merkin manager in your ear telling you to work the negotiations till you get the lottery size winning offer.

Bottom line is our club blew it back in March-April-May and June when the majority of all our re-signings should have been done. I reckon both Papalii and Mahoney would have signed for around 500K and 600K respectively. By lowballing and letting other clubs serenade and flash lager offers in front of them, which makes them realised actual earnings and losses, then it makes it to hard for the player to ignore and much easier for the manager to persuade him to jump ship.

Bad management strategy in the battle to secure our talent. I hope we have learnt a major lesson here and never let this type of perfect storm shit happen again. We need to be much better at this or these type of headlines and outcomes will never cease.

Mahoney maybe, but why the f**k would we have extended Papali'i back in March? Or even April or May?

He'd only just debuted for us, and we had him signed up for two years on nothing coin, and after two or three games ( in the case of a March re-signing ) or a handful more in the case of April or May, you reckon we should've offered him 500k? His history of inconsistency at the Warriors not withstanding, that's just lunacy.

 

[Bandwagon]

Not really ... the salaries of 12 good players and 18 others might be on par with the salaries if 2 stars, 6 good players and 22 others

Having a strong squad across the park costs money

Question is whether one way or the other is a winning combination

I think history tells us that ideally you have those two or three stars, without it affecting the balance of the rest of the squad, how you'd achieve that is anyone's guess.......

 

[IFR33K]

I don't know - maybe it's as simple as the club not willing to match the Dogs' offer.

I’m not sure we would of needed to match their offer. By all accounts he wanted to stay at the eels for less, and when the dogs were informed they upped the ante.

 

[Stevie]

Thanks for sharing mate. Respectfully both tries there he catches the pass and puts the ball down though.
I’ll go against the grain and say Sivo will come back far better and besides his lapse he scores tries that I believe no other winger in the NRL can. He is pure concrete.

 

[IFR33K]

I can't remember...Did Warriors fans blow up when Isaah signed with the Eels?

I can’t remember…. Was papa one of the warriors best and consistent player the year he left?

 

[Bandwagon]

Maybe offering 600k in april would have done nothing other than make his manager think he could get 700k+???

Id guess we probably made some attempt to make earlier offers ... but maybe his manager didnt want to hear about it until he could "officially" test the market

Or maybe we thought that re-valuing him based on half a dozen games (give or take) in the blue and gold wasn't a large enough sample size to cancel out the value we placed on him based on his four years at the Warriors.

 

[TheRam]

That's probably the most important line in that story, it indicates the mess the Dogs are with their cap. Imagine having to pay that kind of coin to move a winger on, and the thinking being it's not enough for the recipient club to make it happen, despite reports the player involved wants it to happen. Bearing in mind they still have to replace with at least a minimum wage ( 100k? ) player, so they're at 250K cost to their cap minimum there.

And on Gus' form ( see the Panthers chipping in for Waqa and Reg as an example ) who's brave enough to say he's the guy to fix that. By all reports they now have to shed more than Cotric, and replace them with minimum wage guys given their spend.

And that's what we were up against retaining Rheed. If they're gonna overpay that much for a winger, how much do they overpay the kind of guys you can build a club around?

Jeez some of you guys are so dim.

Look mate, Gus is going to do whatever it takes to get that roster in the right shape it needs to be so it's in a position to win a premiership. That means that they(the Dogs) will need to bite the bullet and move some players on that will cost them a bit on their cap. Boohoo. He did it with the Panthers and it never hurt them did it? That is what you do if you have the ability to sign better quality at the prices you want when it is available. All clubs make mistakes, the difference is having someone at the club that can structure the club so as you have juniors always coming through putting pressure on the top squad and having the ability to sign quality where it is needed. They have one of the best, if not the best at that now.

There isn't to much of a concern at this point of the rebuilding faze of his tenure at the club to be carrying some salary baggage. It's not as if anyone is realistically expecting them to be title contenders in 2022 or maybe even 2023. He is famous for constantly tinkering and adjusting the roster to suit what he wants. That is his job. What I suspect his priority in the immediate is to build the spine into one that is capable of winning the premiership.

Then also getting rid of the over paid excess players that he can replace with up and comers from within and from outside. This will take around 2-3 years to get into a position that can actually contend for a title. I expect him to be looking for a front rower or two and a fullback sooner rather then later too. Don't be surprised if he doesn't make a solid bid for Ponga next year.

But the point is don't be fooled at what he is doing right now and thinking that he is clueless. He is working towards a medium to long term goal. The roster you see now and the one that will actually win a title will probably look very different. It is a jig saw that he has just started to assemble. Realistically, the Dogs will not be title contenders for at least 3 years. The plan right now is to get them playing finals footy and with the squad that they have right now they are a decent chance. In 2023 I'm sure very few people will doubt them not making the finals and after that who knows what they will be capable of? Lets not forget they were wooden spooners this freakin year and making the finals in 2022 will be a massive achievement and most will see it as a very successful year for them.

We on the other hand need to win the premiership or at least make the GF to be considered as having a successful season and very few of us are all that confident of fulfilling that expectation. We are a chance I suppose, but who really knows? I would be way more confident if we had the same level of professionalism and coaching savvy as say the Roosters or Storm, but alas, that just seems to elude us no matter how hard we try. We just never seem to hire the right brains trust that can get us there. Oh and @Poupou Escobar we do have the money, just not the expertise to get the right merkins at our club. We always think we know better, but never hire better. Maybe one day we will.

 

[The Phelan Folly]

What we should have done is offered him around $600K way back in April-May and I'm sure that he would have taken the deal after a little haggling. It is pretty obvious to me by way of all the time and wrestling with his conscious he had trying to come to a decision. But by waiting like a bunch of fools thinking that loyalty will trump CASH once there is an open auction and larger offers are waved in front of your face, they totally ballsed it up.

He is a fairly loyal type of guy, so I have very little doubt that around $600K would have made him happy and he would have taken it, but when you are lowballed at a time when your predator competitors are allowed to show you the money, well it changes everything and even the more loyal start to thinks twice, especially when you have a merkin manager in your ear telling you to work the negotiations till you get the lottery size winning offer.

Bottom line is our club blew it back in March-April-May and June when the majority of all our re-signings should have been done. I reckon both Papalii and Mahoney would have signed for around 500K and 600K respectively. By lowballing and letting other clubs serenade and flash lager offers in front of them, which makes them realised actual earnings and losses, then it makes it to hard for the player to ignore and much easier for the manager to persuade him to jump ship.

Bad management strategy in the battle to secure our talent. I hope we have learnt a major lesson here and never let this type of perfect storm shit happen again. We need to be much better at this or these type of headlines and outcomes will never cease.

What if the club tried to sign all of these players in April and their savvy managers told them - Hang on a moment, dickhead - theres a new club coming that can make you an offer from November. Maybe you should wait as the competition for top level players is going to increase and the prices clubs will pay is going to increase as well as a result. Maybe that? Or maybe just assume that you know how to manage a teams salary cap and that they don't have a f**king clue??

 

[TheRam]

Reed doesn't like playing the panthers. He has missed the last 4 times we played them through injury.

Last time he played against them was round 5, 2020 the last time we beat them

All that tells me is that he is the difference between us winning and losing to the Premiers.

 

[The Predictor]

W

Oids.

ha?

 

[TheRam]

I can't remember...Did Warriors fans blow up when Isaah signed with the Eels?

I was Putrid!!!

 

[TheRam]

Maybe offering 600k in april would have done nothing other than make his manager think he could get 700k+???

Id guess we probably made some attempt to make earlier offers ... but maybe his manager didnt want to hear about it until he could "officially" test the market

Again, we wouldn't of started at 600k, and you are assuming that players don't sign early and all opt to test the market. I dare say most that are happy, in a title contending roster, have some loyalty in them and receive a decent offer from their current club would take it without going to the market as has been the case for most players over the years.

We simply didn't assess the threat seriously enough and banked on loyalty way to much.

Like I said, hopefully we have learnt a major and valuable lesson here.

 

[84 Baby]

What'd be better for mine is if in moving them on, again remembering if the reporting is correct that's quite a number of players, they ended up having to subsidise them all for a coupla years.

Meaning they'd, have to move more of them on, and replace more of them with minimum wage signings.

Overall that'd mean there squad could be so unbalanced that despite all these big name signings, overall they'd be worse off.

I hope if we do take any of their players it’s at minimum wage to us

 

[84 Baby]

Its hard to make any real judgement about it.

The info we get comes from the media ... is it trustworthy?
What is the NRLs actual stance on all this? Do they only care when it gets closer to 2023?

I don’t trust any merkin who’s ever worked for a newspaper. But the NRL will decline to register contracts if it puts a team over the cap. Sure Dogs aren’t over cap yet but if it is the case that they need to move contracts on in order to have a full squad under the cap then surely that is near enough to same thing

 

[TheRam]

Mahoney maybe, but why the f**k would we have extended Papali'i back in March? Or even April or May?

He'd only just debuted for us, and we had him signed up for two years on nothing coin, and after two or three games ( in the case of a March re-signing ) or a handful more in the case of April or May, you reckon we should've offered him 500k? His history of inconsistency at the Warriors not withstanding, that's just lunacy.

OK Papalii's renegotiations could have been done around June-July, Maybe then we could have gotten him around that $450-500k mark. The point is we should have made a massive effort, not this infamous glacier pace re-signing attempts we are known for. We have too many players off contract to allow it to happen this way. Terrible management of our roster and awareness of what it would take to keep it all together with minimum defections.

 

[Bandwagon]

Jeez some of you guys are so dim.

Look mate, Gus is going to do whatever it takes to get that roster in the right shape it needs to be so it's in a position to win a premiership. That means that they(the Dogs) will need to bite the bullet and move some players on that will cost them a bit on their cap. Boohoo. He did it with the Panthers and it never hurt them did it? That is what you do if you have the ability to sign better quality at the prices you want when it is available. All clubs make mistakes, the difference is having someone at the club that can structure the club so as you have juniors always coming through putting pressure on the top squad and having the ability to sign quality where it is needed. They have one of the best, if not the best at that now.

There isn't to much of a concern at this point of the rebuilding faze of his tenure at the club to be carrying some salary baggage. It's not as if anyone is realistically expecting them to be title contenders in 2022 or maybe even 2023. He is famous for constantly tinkering and adjusting the roster to suit what he wants. That is his job. What I suspect his priority in the immediate is to build the spine into one that is capable of winning the premiership.

Then also getting rid of the over paid excess players that he can replace with up and comers from within and from outside. This will take around 2-3 years to get into a position that can actually contend for a title. I expect him to be looking for a front rower or two and a fullback sooner rather then later too. Don't be surprised if he doesn't make a solid bid for Ponga next year.

But the point is don't be fooled at what he is doing right now and thinking that he is clueless. He is working towards a medium to long term goal. The roster you see now and the one that will actually win a title will probably look very different. It is a jig saw that he has just started to assemble. Realistically, the Dogs will not be title contenders for at least 3 years. The plan right now is to get them playing finals footy and with the squad that they have right now they are a decent chance. In 2023 I'm sure very few people will doubt them not making the finals and after that who knows what they will be capable of? Lets not forget they were wooden spooners this freakin year and making the finals in 2022 will be a massive achievement and most will see it as a very successful year for them.

We on the other hand need to win the premiership or at least make the GF to be considered as having a successful season and very few of us are all that confident of fulfilling that expectation. We are a chance I suppose, but who really knows? I would be way more confident if we had the same level of professionalism and coaching savvy as say the Roosters or Storm, but alas, that just seems to elude us no matter how hard we try. We just never seem to hire the right brains trust that can get us there. Oh and @Poupou Escobar we do have the money, just not the expertise to get the right merkins at our club. We always think we know better, but never hire better. Maybe one day we will.

Gould did a great job it would seem on their junior pathways, but he joined them in 2011 and they didn't make the GF until the year after he left, for the most part in all the time he was there they were a middle of the road club ( They made finals in four of the nine years of his tenure ) Their best finish was 4th and a prelim. That's one top four finish in nine years. Meanwhile they ( the Panthers ) had finished 2nd in 2010, the year before he started.

They then when on to finish 12th, 15th, and 10th in his first three years back at the club.

So whilst you could argue his input has and is paying dividends now, it wasn't over the few years here you're claiming he'll turn around the dogs, it was over a f**king decade, likely because that's how long it can take for a focus on junior pathways to bear real fruit.

Yet here we are, about five years into our rebuild and you're saying we need to make the GF or win the premiership to have a successful season. Bullshit mate.

Gould made plenty of errors at the Panthers regards their roster, some of which cost them dearly in the short to medium term, there is no evidence on the table to suggest he won't be doing the same at the Dogs. In fact quite the opposite, their cap for 2023 looks a disaster, and fixing it's gonna cost them quite a bit over the next few years.

He's not the messiah mate,

 

[TheRam]

What if the club tried to sign all of these players in April and their savvy managers told them - Hang on a moment, dickhead - theres a new club coming that can make you an offer from November. Maybe you should wait as the competition for top level players is going to increase and the prices clubs will pay is going to increase as well as a result. Maybe that? Or maybe just assume that you know how to manage a teams salary cap and that they don't have a f**king clue??

Or we came in with decent offers in the first place and they would have taken them instead of going to the market as what happens all the f**ken time!