Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

Yeah if anyone thinks Tubbo is better at the moment than RCG or Matto, they’ve got to be a bit dim

He’s a better middle defender, which is where the big games are won and lost. The Blues essentially played with two big minutes locks, like Penrith, with Haas and Paulo sharing minutes as the main ball runner. It’s a luxury you can have at Origin level because there’s no salary cap.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think you might be right here. Not that I’ve heard anything. I think I’m now wishing for it. Has there ever been a coach that will enter his 10th year at a club and not even a make a preliminary final let alone a GF appearance or a competition?

@Poupou Escobar I need some stats, mate.

The years prior to 2019 don’t really count mate. It was an entirely different club then, weaker than the Tigers. Any coach would have failed after 2009. Actually many did.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

While us fans talk about BA’s nearly 10 years at the club to compare his ability/side performance…..I reckon board don’t and only really consider the years post 2018 regarding his performance …the last 3 years where the club actually got its shit together…..

Exactly

 

[Avenger]

The years prior to 2019 don’t really count mate. It was an entirely different club then, weaker than the Tigers. Any coach would have failed after 2009. Actually many did.

Would you keep going with him if you lose the bet with @hindy111 ?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Penrith were dominant at club level before having all those players picked in origin. Not the other way around.

Well obviously the players have to prove their ability before being picked. Then they have to prove their ability to stay there. The Penrith players have done that. Many other players haven’t.

You should know better than anyone that the sample size is way too small (considering it’s one of your favourite metrics).

Except the selectors have access to far more information than we do, so they aren’t limited to statistical analysis. They can directly judge the players for attitude and ability. We can’t so we have to go off match footage, stats and other heuristics.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Would you keep going with him if you lose the bet with @hindy111 ?

I’d let him finish his contract.

 

[Avenger]

I’d let him finish his contract.

I think that’s a fair move but a more ruthless one would be to announce it as a club and if we want to be really ruthless announce his successor prior to him finishing up. A bit like Fitzy did when Hagan was announced prior to Brian Smith leaving in 2006.

Unlike Smith I don’t think BA would quit prematurely.

 

[emjaycee]

I think that’s a fair move but a more ruthless one would be to announce it as a club and if we want to be really ruthless announce his successor prior to him finishing up. A bit like Fitzy did when Hagan was announced prior to Brian Smith leaving in 2006.

Unlike Smith I don’t think BA would quit prematurely.

Avenger, assume for a minute that my prediction about BA leaving a year early isn't true...

He is currently contracted until the end of 2024, so what I would see happening is that he would be told mid-way through 2023 that he isn't going to be extended any further. The club would begin looking for his replacement in late 2023, over the off-season and into 2024 they would hopefully settle and sign someone. I reckon they would announce it in about May 2024 and not any earlier. BA would finish his term, but the new coach would have input into 2025 player signings throughout 2024, not unlike Fitzgibbon at the Sharks late last season.

Of course, if BA gets an offer for 2024 then the new coach would be announced and ideally start 2024 pre-season.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

BA would finish his term, but the new coach would have input into 2025 player signings throughout 2024, not unlike Fitzgibbon at the Sharks late last season.

This would absolutely be the best thing for the club. It’s how the Roosters would operate. Probably the Storm too.

 

[Black Panther]

It’s like the Penrith players were also there for origin 1 (that NSW lost) but were given another opportunity while ours weren’t.

Yes beaten, but on the back of the poor efforts from NSW forwards. 2 of which were Eels. Everyone is always quick to jump in and blame the 6 or 7 when a team loses, but if you watched last nights game it shows how a game changes when the Forwards are going well.

 

[Pazza]

Yes beaten, but on the back of the poor efforts from NSW forwards. 2 of which were Eels. Everyone is always quick to jump in and blame the 6 or 7 when a team loses, but if you watched last nights game it shows how a game changes when the Forwards are going well.

we seemed more balanced last night

in game one fitler was a bit too concerned in emulating penrith with the outisde backs doing the grunt work. Bit hard on the forwards to lay the foundation when they arent getting the ball.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yes beaten, but on the back of the poor efforts from NSW forwards. 2 of which were Eels. Everyone is always quick to jump in and blame the 6 or 7 when a team loses, but if you watched last nights game it shows how a game changes when the Forwards are going well.

Merkins look at our forwards in attack and recognise their quality when they are rolling through the opposition. But then they whinge about our lack of line speed in defence and assume it’s unrelated to our big forwards and instead blame coaching.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

we seemed more balanced last night

in game one fitler was a bit too concerned in emulating penrith with the outisde backs doing the grunt work. Bit hard on the forwards to lay the foundation when they arent getting the ball.

The back three combined for 70+ runs and over 700m last night, just like they did in the first game. The difference was the forwards defended much better and they dominated possession. Laying the foundation starts with defence, not attack. They don’t need the ball to set the tone.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yeo and Trbojevic combined for only 30 runs in 141 minutes, which kept them fresh in defence (just like Penrith). In game one Yeo made 18 runs in 53 minutes. The high number of runs shortened his minutes.

 

[Pazza]

The back three combined for 70+ runs and over 700m last night, just like they did in the first game. The difference was the forwards defended much better and they dominated possession. Laying the foundation starts with defence, not attack. They don’t need the ball to set the tone.

true

they played with more intent last night. From memory game 1 Haas and RCG had five hit ups each by half time, very uncharacteristic for both players. its almost as if the game plan was not to give them the ball.

Yes defense sets the tone, but so does hard running, effort, good discipline, enterprise in attack, good fifth tackle options. In what order is a matter of opinion. i think they all link together and feed into each other personally.

 

[Black Panther]

I guess that just highlights how the team was better balanced last night.

 

[84 Baby]

He’s a better middle defender, which is where the big games are won and lost. The Blues essentially played with two big minutes locks, like Penrith, with Haas and Paulo sharing minutes as the main ball runner. It’s a luxury you can have at Origin level because there’s no salary cap.

He’s not that much better a middle defender than RCG or Matto but is noticeably worse running the ball

 

[TheRam]

Are you saying luck is a significant factor in a small sample of games?

Crazy how none of these great coaches ever want our cash. Or maybe the people running our club think Hagan, Anderson, Kearney, Stuart and Arthur are the best coaches in the game? They’ll probably hire that experienced supercoach Ciraldo next. Nobody’s better than him.

Well funny you should point that out.

Now lets see what reality is and what it actually teaches us here.

Firstly both Robinson and Bellamy are one NRL club coaches that were the bees knees young Ciraldo's of their day that their respective clubs were the beneficiaries of getting while still unproven and they took the risk and it paid off big time for them.

Bennett was also the largely unproven bees knees young super coach coming through of his generation and the Broncos identified him again a rookie as far as coaching on his own at 1st grade level, to spearhead what would be the number one franchise of the league.

As for Cleary many have never rated him as a super coach, because it has taken so long for him to win his premiership, but if you look back on many of my old posts I have always said he is of similar class as those other 3 but has unfortunately gone to clubs that needed rebuilding from ground up and left before they were on the cusp of glory for varying reasons. In the Tigers case, he basically didn't even get going really. Now with the Panthers over the next decade he will probably end up with multi premierships like the other three. Good luck grabbing him now that he is a premiership winner and still going strong no matter what you offer him.

As for 'ever wanting our cash', that is obviously a ridiculous statement meant to be sarcastic, but it highlights your stupid opinions very well that just fall flat. For rookie potential super coaches coming through, it doesn't have to do with money alone as Ciraldo just proved that by knocking back the tigers offer. As for established super coaches, well good luck. The only one that has moved on is Bennett and that was only because in the Broncos wisdom he was not wanted and look what has happened to them since.

The rumour right now is that Ciraldo wants the Parra job. Kind of like the other great coaches wanted to go to quality organisations with decent rosters to fulfill their potential with the resources that good organisations will provide them. These sorts of coaches are rarely ever really available and when they are you as a club have to tick quite a few boxes for them to even consider you as a destination before they even start to think or talk about money.

We in the past when these established 4 great coaches were available before they started their great NRL careers were run by morons and or had really bad rosters or had a strong coach like Brian Smith in charge anyway. In Cleary's case like I said, many(but not me) didn't value him. But what they all had in common (except Cleary) they were all unproven hyped up rookies that their initial clubs took a gamble on and it paid off. Bennett, Bellamy and Robinson were all very discerning when they picked their first NRL gig because they could and knew the pitfalls of starting out at a lemon of a club what it could do to their long term careers.

We are now a club that is considered by the next generation of young elite coaches to be worth the risk for them to take on as their first dip into the NRL as head coaches. It is now incumbent on us to do our due diligence and take the gamble on the best young coach coming through who by all reports is Cameron Ciraldo. At this stage of his career we can afford him money wise and if he indeed does turn out to be the next super coach, well that is how you get to keep them long term if not for their entire coaching life. He becomes a Parra man to the grave. But if we were to ignore him at this stage of his development, then good luck getting him here when he is the finished product and part of the furniture of wherever he has gone on to be a success.

Like I said previously, these types of coaches are rarer then the best halfbacks in the game. Is Ciraldo going to be that good, odds are probably against it, but there are some odds for it too. I think that it is a risk worth taking, especially considering he would be only replacing a slightly above average plodding incumbent. Not much to risk really is there?

 

[hindy111]

It’s interesting how many think CC is the answer to our coaching “issues”, yet no one has watched him coach…it’s just based on what the media has reported…..the same media that talked up Barrett and O’Brien recently too..,.

Fun fact, he actually lost a 20’s GF after leading 28 to 6 at half time….

He is a gamble and is being talked up based on Penrith success just like Barrett was. I knew heaps of dogs supporters who loved his signing a few years ago.

 

[hindy111]

I have always said that he would be a big risk. Barrett was also talked about so much that he received an opportunity with a talented Sea Eagles side. If you want t a real smoky and one I’d consider if we boned BA prematurely which wouldn’t cost the earth is Siebold. At least he has experience and former Dally M coach of the year.

I’d steer clear from Green. Flanagan is a mystery too because he isn’t getting a sniff anywhere.

I still remember when Mik was going to throw Paul Green into Darling Harbour. Mick Vella had to stop it....