Rumours and Stuff

[crocodile]

Pou, lighten up. We all love ya.

 

[eels_fan]

If it's innocent until proven guilty, is it consensual until proven non-consensual?

No. Consent must be clearly stated, it can never be inferred, alluded to or simply assumed.

 

[crocodile]

Sure, but everything is about how you allocate limited resources.

Of course but that doesn't really indicate what path this will take.

 

[Enamoured Eel]

If it's innocent until proven guilty, is it consensual until proven non-consensual?

In the complainants statement, one of the last lines always is to say words to the effect of ‘I did not give [insert defendants name and/or unknown person] permission to assault me/break my property’ etc.

This translates to evidence in Court.

 

[Enamoured Eel]

No. Consent must be clearly stated, it can never be inferred, alluded to or simply assumed.

This is incorrect also.

 

[Enamoured Eel]

Charges of a sexual nature are pretty serious. They don't need a complainant, only evidence. I did not write that they will, only that they have the power to do so if they wish.

Mate, no. Have a think about what you’re saying. If authority see me slap my missus on the arse in the supermarket, they aren’t going to bother making an assessment if it was consensual or not to the extent of possible criminal enforcement! By your account, I could be wheeled away without the missus having a say!

For all they know, she slapped my arm away because it was in front of a copper in public and she was embarrassed!

We walk around the next aisle free from prying eyes, she bends over and I give her a harder one with a little grab for good measure.

I want you to tell me how prosecutions would prove the element of the complainant not consenting to being touched in such way without her giving evidence.

Don’t bother saying that the CCTV depicts her shaking her head in a no motion because defence would simply argue that he asked her if she wanted another drink.

Remember; beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[84 Baby]

No. Consent must be clearly stated, it can never be inferred, alluded to or simply assumed.

Depends what you mean by “stated”

 

[the phantom menace]

I want you to tell me how prosecutions would prove the element of the complainant not consenting to being touched in such way without her giving evidence.

I think you answered that yourself above?

In the complainants statement, one of the last lines always is to say words to the effect of ‘I did not give [insert defendants name and/or unknown person] permission to assault me/break my property’ etc.

This translates to evidence in Court.

 

[EelsFan05]

What you describe is grievous bodily harm which requires a complainant. Without a complainant, Police could run with unlawful wounding.

This is Queensland legislation but the point remains; Police couldn’t and would not prosecute for the offence Brown has been charged with without a complainant.

You can run a GBH case in NSW without a victim, because consent is a non issue, and is not an element of the offence. Victim testimony is always preferable for the prosecution in matters where consent is an issue.

 

[eels_fan]

Depends what you mean by “stated”

Do you want to, shall we, do you like this, can I do can this

= stated consent

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No. Consent must be clearly stated, it can never be inferred, alluded to or simply assumed.

Actually it doesn't need to be verbalised at all, which means it can indeed be inferred from other cues such as body language.

 

[eels_fan]

Actually it doesn't need to be verbalised at all, which means it can indeed be inferred from other cues such as body language.

If someone is drunk, even verbal consent isn’t a legal form of consent, so showing body cues certainly isn’t - from a legal perspective

 

[the phantom menace]

Current active consent laws/requirements differ by state. I think Pou's state is a bit behind the others.

It’s time we aligned sexual consent laws across Australia – but this faces formidable challenges

Our research highlights the risks and challenges that must be worked through to align sexual consent laws across the states and territories.

theconversation.com

 

[eels_fan]

I can only speak from a Qld perspective as that’s where I am based, but I imagine they would be similar across Australia.

silence is not a form of consent - there must be a verbal agreement. That’s direct from Qld govt website.

give it 5 years and you’ll need to register and Co-sign on an app to have sex. Guarantee it. So the government can track not only consent but who is having sex with who, when, where and how often

 

[the phantom menace]

^^ Black Mirror "Hang The DJ" episode

 

[crocodile]

I can only speak from a Qld perspective as that’s where I am based, but I imagine they would be similar across Australia.

silence is not a form of consent - there must be a verbal agreement. That’s direct from Qld govt website.

give it 5 years and you’ll need to register and Co-sign on an app to have sex. Guarantee it. So the government can track not only consent but who is having sex with who, when, where and how often

I'm sure if she grabbed him by the stork and slipped him the tongue that's consent without a word spoken.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

If someone is drunk, even verbal consent isn’t a legal form of consent, so showing body cues certainly isn’t - from a legal perspective

Well I've had heaps of sex when I was drunk and I guarantee I consented every time. Obviously there was sometimes regret the next day but I never would've gone to the police about it.

 

[eels_fan]

I'm sure if she grabbed him by the stork and slipped him the tongue that's consent without a word spoken.

Not if either of them decided they won’t want to be involved 30 seconds later.
Are you saying you approve of a man grabbing a woman between the legs without asking ? Because if it’s good for the woman to do it’s good for the man?

 

[eels_fan]

Well I've had heaps of sex when I was drunk and I guarantee I consented every time. Obviously there was sometimes regret the next day but I never would've gone to the police about it.

That’s a choice. And times change. Consent laws were updated less than 12 months ago. What flew back when I was in my prime doesn’t today

 

[crocodile]

Mate, no. Have a think about what you’re saying. If authority see me slap my missus on the arse in the supermarket, they aren’t going to bother making an assessment if it was consensual or not to the extent of possible criminal enforcement! By your account, I could be wheeled away without the missus having a say!

For all they know, she slapped my arm away because it was in front of a copper in public and she was embarrassed!

We walk around the next aisle free from prying eyes, she bends over and I give her a harder one with a little grab for good measure.

I want you to tell me how prosecutions would prove the element of the complainant not consenting to being touched in such way without her giving evidence.

Don’t bother saying that the CCTV depicts her shaking her head in a no motion because defence would simply argue that he asked her if she wanted another drink.

Remember; beyond reasonable doubt.

None of that matters. The only thing that matters is what actually happened. I don't know, you don't and neither does Jesus. How do you know there wasn't a witness.