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Rumours and Stuff

JokerEel

Coach
Messages
10,860
How is that an excuse? An excuse would be saying we haven’t won a comp because we never had the best team. Pointing out win rate is just a statement of fact, not an excuse.


that was 2 different msgs...

the win rate is terrible

and also the excuse was later in your post.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,441
Now I'm not saying that BA's time isn't up, but some of you on here (and I'm also talking to you Brent Read and Phil Rothfield as well) who are throwing hand grenades with "11 years" painted on them are very conveniently forgetting the shit show that he had to endure of Fat Tony, Ned Flanders, the salary sap dramas, the club going into administration, Max Donnelly crafting constitutional protections etc. Building the team back to a respectable competitor and making the GF 18 months ago.

I know that the smart arse retort will be "LOL he's been here 11 years of the 38 year drought." Facts are facts, that's true, but there is way more to the story and this journey.

I know I just asked to be nuked by sarcasm @hineyrulz, so hit me with it. I'm ready.


I think we are all in agreement that Brad has been a wonderful servant of this club.

However, conceding 80+ points over 3 weeks should never be acceptable, for any NRL club.

We are all appreciative of the good work he has done, and were we to win a Premiership in the next 5 years, he could take a lot of the credit for setting the foundations.

But he's stale, tactically poor, insipid, unidimensional, and way past his use-by date - not to mention that his tactics in year 11, are the same as they were in year 1.

We will forever be grateful to Brad for guiding us through a dark period, but he's toast...he's burnt out...his tank is empty.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,456
Nope, jus bad luck

impossible to make a call without more data apparently
But also just lumping it on BA/players not being good enough is not the answer either. And actually we would need more data to identify the problems. My problem is you may be able to find poor excuse for 2023 for not gathering that data and providing answers, given the somewhat success of 2022. But failing to either bother analysing it or not coming up with answers for this year is sackable for a lot of people IMO. Unless somehow this is the answer…
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
74,326
I think we are all in agreement that Brad has been a wonderful servant of this club.

However, conceding 80+ points over 3 weeks should never be acceptable, for any NRL club.

We are all appreciative of the good work he has done, and were we to win a Premiership in the next 5 years, he could take a lot of the credit for setting the foundations.

But he's stale, tactically poor, insipid, unidimensional, and way past his use-by date - not to mention that his tactics in year 11, are the same as they were in year 1.

We will forever be grateful to Brad for guiding us through a dark period, but he's toast...he's burnt out...his tank is empty.
We agree on lots of stuff. The bolded bit does not always ring true. As many have said, we are exceptionally competitive vs Storm and Panthers year after year, but lose to shit teams or simply drop our form without good reason. Without a doubt the buck stops with him on that, but our great form vs those formidable opponents smashes your "tactically poor, insipid, unidimensional etc etc" theory. Now I am not clever enough to know the reason why we lose or drop form, but I am observant enough to recognise that those wins are not flukes.
 

lucablight

First Grade
Messages
6,192
Yeah and we had more talent when we beat them last year.

Also whenever we beat the Panthers we have more talent than them which is why merkins all blame coaching when they beat us.
You’re not being intellectually honest if you say the Dolphins had more talent on the field than us in the Darwin game.
 

eel01s

Bench
Messages
3,313
I agree that BAs tactics have not evolved over 11 seasons. I agree he is stale, and we need a change. Even if by some miracle we get the season back on track, it is time for a new voice. Especially when there is a coach like Bennett available. You don't keep a coach for over 10 years unless you are winning premierships.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
86,024
Of course shits going to happen and an isolated game could be for any number of reasons, but when you have 2 cellar dweller performances in a month, add in poor performance vs Tigers and start vs Manly, add in an overall poor performance last year, add in historical poor performances, and clearly there are deeper reasons that need addressing
The ‘deeper reasons’ have been going on for decades. Is it possible those reasons are just a lack of quality? Or must it be something fundamentally wrong that can be easily purged from the club so we can all feel good about ourselves until we realise we are still just average at resourcing recruitment and retention?

We are an overall mid-tier club, like most NRL clubs. We have our ups and downs, just like them. What makes us mid-tier isn’t the presence of something bad/flawed/evil, it is simply the absence of the combined competitive advantages that the top clubs have.

We have made three grand finals since 1986, or about one every 12 years. This is less than average but not by much. Of those three we have lost all of them, where the average is 1.5. For such a small sample, that can be accounted for just by bad luck. It’s no reason to be f**king vindictive against anyone responsible for a 48% win rate in less than a year and a half. As for two floggings in three weeks, you should expect such results to occur near each other, as the underlying causes are present during that time.

My point is you need some perspective. You’re dissatisfied with our 11 year results under this coach but they were objectively worse during the previous 11 years under six coaches. I’m sure Arthur will get the arse fairly soon, which will briefly mollify the fans, media and sponsors. I just don’t think it’ll change anything in the short term. Long term we will only improve if we can figure out ways to beat the salary cap.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
86,024
and Storm, its the shit teams we have trouble with
Maybe the shit teams don’t take us lightly. In the finals at least, since 2017 we have lost eight finals matches, and six of those were against the Storm or the Panthers. Our four finals wins were against Brisbane, Newcastle, Canberra and the Cowboys.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,743
Interesting, given he is a Parra junior , Mounties and still lives in the area. He was part of the coach journey that Manly organised for 3 years at least from the west 2/3 times per week via Fulton to get their junior reps upgraded. That worked as they won Matts in 2018 and 2021 during that time.
He would certainly help our culture issues. 🙄
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,743
We agree on lots of stuff. The bolded bit does not always ring true. As many have said, we are exceptionally competitive vs Storm and Panthers year after year, but lose to shit teams or simply drop our form without good reason. Without a doubt the buck stops with him on that, but our great form vs those formidable opponents smashes your "tactically poor, insipid, unidimensional etc etc" theory. Now I am not clever enough to know the reason why we lose or drop form, but I am observant enough to recognise that those wins are not flukes.
Not so sure that will be our MO this season Gronky.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
17,519
The ‘deeper reasons’ have been going on for decades. Is it possible those reasons are just a lack of quality? Or must it be something fundamentally wrong that can be easily purged from the club so we can all feel good about ourselves until we realise we are still just average at resourcing recruitment and retention?

We are an overall mid-tier club, like most NRL clubs. We have our ups and downs, just like them. What makes us mid-tier isn’t the presence of something bad/flawed/evil, it is simply the absence of the combined competitive advantages that the top clubs have.

We have made three grand finals since 1986, or about one every 12 years. This is less than average but not by much. Of those three we have lost all of them, where the average is 1.5. For such a small sample, that can be accounted for just by bad luck. It’s no reason to be f**king vindictive against anyone responsible for a 48% win rate in less than a year and a half. As for two floggings in three weeks, you should expect such results to occur near each other, as the underlying causes are present during that time.

My point is you need some perspective. You’re dissatisfied with our 11 year results under this coach but they were objectively worse during the previous 11 years under six coaches. I’m sure Arthur will get the arse fairly soon, which will briefly mollify the fans, media and sponsors. I just don’t think it’ll change anything in the short term. Long term we will only improve if we can figure out ways to beat the salary cap.
11 years previous (03-13) we made 1 gf, 2 other prelims, a minor premiership , 4 semi finals appearances and 2 spoons.

11 years since(14-24)we have 1 gf, no other prelims, no minor premierships, 5 semi finals appearances and 1 spoon , possibly another one this year at the rate we are going.

They are about the same.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,456
The ‘deeper reasons’ have been going on for decades. Is it possible those reasons are just a lack of quality? Or must it be something fundamentally wrong that can be easily purged from the club so we can all feel good about ourselves until we realise we are still just average at resourcing recruitment and retention?

We are an overall mid-tier club, like most NRL clubs. We have our ups and downs, just like them. What makes us mid-tier isn’t the presence of something bad/flawed/evil, it is simply the absence of the combined competitive advantages that the top clubs have.
You’ve misunderstood. The fact is we haven’t won a premiership in those decades and currently are shit. The reasons we’ve got to this position could be many and varied, they could be multilayered, they could be inherent but whatever they are results show that they haven’t been completely addressed by anyone. Means we’ve been relying way more on luck than we could’ve been.
We have made three grand finals since 1986, or about one every 12 years. This is less than average but not by much. Of those three we have lost all of them, where the average is 1.5. For such a small sample, that can be accounted for just by bad luck.
This is almost irrelevant. The results are what raises the problem, but the problem itself isn’t the results, it’s how we should’ve mitigated ourselves against that bad luck from being the defining factor apparently.
It’s no reason to be f**king vindictive against anyone responsible for a 48% win rate in less than a year and a half. As for two floggings in three weeks, you should expect such results to occur near each other, as the underlying causes are present during that time.
Yeah you would but I have two issues with that. It highlights there are underlying causes that haven’t been rectified, which raises whether we realised there were even underlying causes or capable of correcting them, but more importantly it’s not just 2 games. We had similar results last year under similar circumstances, so in a work environment where teams are given months of self reflection to rectify these underlying issues, we’ve either not fixed them or generated new ones.
My point is you need some perspective. You’re dissatisfied with our 11 year results under this coach but they were objectively worse during the previous 11 years under six coaches. I’m sure Arthur will get the arse fairly soon, which will briefly mollify the fans, media and sponsors. I just don’t think it’ll change anything in the short term.
I am dissatisfied with the past 11 years ultimately but even more so I’m more disappointed with the past 40 years and even more so I’m disappointed with the past year and bit.
Long term we will only improve if we can figure out ways to beat the salary cap.
No. Well maybe. Other teams who are same or worse level have been successful. We need to review whether we should follow some of the things they did. For example if we’re only midtier, should we be taking more risks than top tier teams? Are we better off having 5 shit seasons then 1 great season instead of 2 shit seasons, 2 ok seasons then 2 good seasons that are still heavily influenced by luck?
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,441
We agree on lots of stuff. The bolded bit does not always ring true. As many have said, we are exceptionally competitive vs Storm and Panthers year after year, but lose to shit teams or simply drop our form without good reason. Without a doubt the buck stops with him on that, but our great form vs those formidable opponents smashes your "tactically poor, insipid, unidimensional etc etc" theory. Now I am not clever enough to know the reason why we lose or drop form, but I am observant enough to recognise that those wins are not flukes.

It was meant more in an overall sense.

A few years ago, Munster was playing with a broken hand - before he went off, I think we sent one forward his way.

That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

Exploit your opposition's weak points.

BA is not great at this.
 
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