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Rumours and Stuff

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
13,378
Johnathan Thurston had a horrific record with Nth Qld with a handful of years only getting single figure wins. There lies the problem with dismissing halfbacks based on their record. Squad and effort by others is an unavoidable metric. One of the greatest 7s ever.

Thurston still was getting in trouble off-field in 2008 & 2010.

I don't think his focus was entirely on footy in those seasons.

He got arrested for drunken behavior as late as 2010.

As popular as he is now

People tend to forget JT wasn't a model citizen in the first half of his career.

 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,782
While that is possibly true a lot of the time, what is the excuse for when we do get the field advantage, and we come up empty-handed?
Still players not doing their jobs. I agree Moses isn’t perfect but as I said I think he’s closer to doing his job than others are to theirs, even factoring in pay differences.
He gets sloppy service, players don’t give him options/engage defence, Gutho and Drown aren’t connecting with him at the level they should.
The best he’s looked this year is when Cartwright is running purposeful angles and Penisini has proper depth. And he’s getting energetic service from ruck.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,576
We are talking about 2016 though. Or are you saying results over two or three years is more relevant than single year results? I would agree.

Melbourne have no juniors either. It’s a non-factor, since clubs can buy all the juniors they can afford.

Well we can afford plenty, yet we have fu*k all.

There are two teams that matter at every club. The on field playing team and the off field managing/administrating team.

If the latter is shite then invariably the former will also be shite and never reach its true potential.


We have had a fairly ordinary admin team for almost forever. Money isn't our problem, it's who we keep spending that money on in the Admin team.

It's like we have a great big fat cow to sell and we keep coming back with 5 magic beans that never turn out to be magic, just plain old beans. Not even meat and potatoes nice.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,576
These are all fair points but I also wonder if he’s a product of his environment. He has been coached for a long time to play possession, make your tackles and essentially play safe. That doesn’t lend itself to an attacking minded halfback, particularly when we’re behind on the scoreboard. When we’re in front, I think it’s completely reasonable to suggest the instruction is to just complete sets and kick long. That may work for a team like Penrith, but our defence and discipline isn’t anywhere near theirs. I truly believe with a new attacking minded coaching staff we wouldn’t put the cue in the rack so to speak and we might actually start to put teams to the sword.

I think you have it backwards mate.

With a knew defensive minded coach and structure you would see so much more from all our attacking players, especially Moses who would thrive when the opposition are mentally broken and defeated.

This is and has been our problem for way to long. We don't psychologically wound or break teams down enough so they are always aware that we are just a set or two away from capitulating again and allowing them back into the game even if we have been dominating.

This needs to be the first thing that any new coach coming in successfully addresses if he want to have real on field success from the get go. Fixing our pathways is the long term sustainability fix for the entire clubs overall continued in the future success that we have all been praying for but as yet never seems to ever eventuate substantially enough to take us to the next level.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,576
We shall see. It should be part of the interview presentation driven by the interviewers. Opinions on current roster, what changes would you make immediately etc etc. We cant have someone who wants to wait and see. Players form and consistency over these past 2 seasons is enough to make ruthless decisions now.

It is very hard to believe that either Ryles or Hannay could or would interview better then someone like Cheika and how well he presents and his stellar and successful portfolio overall.

You have two very limited and unimpressive speakers with almost no head coaching of note backgrounds and a heap of maybe and ifs surrounding them.

Then you have a born leader of men and man manager that has done plenty as the main man in charge and succeeded with glowing praise from so many who have had the privilege of his association and seen him his work.

As for not having coached NRL before, well neither have any of the other serious candidates. The fear is that maybe he won't be able to cut it as a NRL coach coming from Union and the Alan Jones experiment is always cited as a relevant example of this impending failure that is almost guaranteed to happen.

Well I say bollocks! Jones was from another era and didn't at that time have the professionalism of today and the standards that Cheika has been exposed to and applied over the years. He knows the level of fitness and that a full and comprehensive program is needed if you want to be successful at this level. I also think he would know that he will need great assistants as do most current NRL coach to do the daily X's and O's stuff and as will either of the other candidates too.

Back on Jones, Hell Jones used to send the boys home if they felt to tired and the weather was to warm ffs! Go home fellas, go home he used to say waving his hand for them all to leave, as stated by Blocker on numerous occasions and how all the fellas used to laugh and go to the pub.

I think we have moved on way past that type of coaching wouldn't most of us all agree?

Cheika is a totally different type of cat. We will totally miss a massive opportunity if we don't take the plunge and appoint Cheika as our next head coach...But hey that is so Parra isn't it?
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,604
Yes agree. I think biggest issue starts with backs. No pigs carting it up like a Too. That means our already bigger and slower forwards have to run back further and do more work so they are even more farigued.
Pensini is our only power back.

Russel,Gutho,Blaize,Sivo,Harper,Simmonson are all weak and have not tackle break and PCM power.
What did you think about the period when we threw the ball around in our own end and made in roads into the chooks territory?

It was nice to watch and played to our players strength.

Once we hit the lead, we went back to the rucking out and played back into the chooks strengths.

If you watch the game, the chooks were super compressed like nearly shoulder to shoulder. So if we chased the collision, it wouldn't really work as 3 guys shoulder to shoulder would smash anyone unless they had foot work . Our defence was never as compressed as the china were

I guess our defense doesn't allow for that free flowing style. Pity
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,221
Jones used to send the boys home if they felt to tired and the weather was to warm ffs! Go home fellas, go home he used to say waving his hand for them all to leave, as stated by Blocker on numerous occasions and how all the fellas used to laugh and go to the pub.
Yeah I remember Blocker saying that. Jones would wave his hands dismissively at them and say "go on, off you go boys, go home. You don't run thoroughbreds in to the ground".... Lol
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,221
What did you think about the period when we threw the ball around in our own end and made in roads into the chooks territory?

It was nice to watch and played to our players strength.

Once we hit the lead, we went back to the rucking out and played back into the chooks strengths.

If you watch the game, the chooks were super compressed like nearly shoulder to shoulder. So if we chased the collision, it wouldn't really work as 3 guys shoulder to shoulder would smash anyone unless they had foot work . Our defence was never as compressed as the china were

I guess our defense doesn't allow for that free flowing style. Pity
Massive sign of a lack of confidence and a team that has forgot how to win. We're simply not a team capable of defending for 80 minutes, so this mindset that has come over us in the last 2 games where we go in to our shells and seem to try and protect a lead is pure folly.

Leading by 2 or 22, we should be promoting the football at all costs. We've nothing to lose except another game....
 

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
13,378
It is very hard to believe that either Ryles or Hannay could or would interview better then someone like Cheika and how well he presents and his stellar and successful portfolio overall.

You have two very limited and unimpressive speakers with almost no head coaching of note backgrounds and a heap of maybe and ifs surrounding them.

Then you have a born leader of men and man manager that has done plenty as the main man in charge and succeeded with glowing praise from so many who have had the privilege of his association and seen him his work.

As for not having coached NRL before, well neither have any of the other serious candidates. The fear is that maybe he won't be able to cut it as a NRL coach coming from Union and the Alan Jones experiment is always cited as a relevant example of this impending failure that is almost guaranteed to happen.

Well I say bollocks! Jones was from another era and didn't at that time have the professionalism of today and the standards that Cheika has been exposed to and applied over the years. He knows the level of fitness and that a full and comprehensive program is needed if you want to be successful at this level. I also think he would know that he will need great assistants as do most current NRL coach to do the daily X's and O's stuff and as will either of the other candidates too.

Back on Jones, Hell Jones used to send the boys home if they felt to tired and the weather was to warm ffs! Go home fellas, go home he used to say waving his hand for them all to leave, as stated by Blocker on numerous occasions and how all the fellas used to laugh and go to the pub.

I think we have moved on way past that type of coaching wouldn't most of us all agree?

Cheika is a totally different type of cat. We will totally miss a massive opportunity if we don't take the plunge and appoint Cheika as our next head coach...But hey that is so Parra isn't it?
100% - Cheika would have transformed this club on & off the field. The profile it would have given the club and potential exposure for more world-class high performance people he could have lured to this club.

Now we run the risk of sinking further into the hole with an unproven Ryles who all he has done is be a spitbag for Bellamy.

And coached some side in the A-Grade Wollongong comp a decade ago.

Like Ryles is going to bring any quality from Melbourne to support him.

Kearney never did all he brought up from Melbourne was the magic trifecta in Billy Rogers, Luke Kelly & Brad Arthur.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,782
I think you have it backwards mate.

With a knew defensive minded coach and structure you would see so much more from all our attacking players, especially Moses who would thrive when the opposition are mentally broken and defeated.

This is and has been our problem for way to long. We don't psychologically wound or break teams down enough so they are always aware that we are just a set or two away from capitulating again and allowing them back into the game even if we have been dominating.

This needs to be the first thing that any new coach coming in successfully addresses if he want to have real on field success from the get go. Fixing our pathways is the long term sustainability fix for the entire clubs overall continued in the future success that we have all been praying for but as yet never seems to ever eventuate substantially enough to take us to the next level.
I think what he was saying is our players particularly forwards are unsuited to a defensive game plan. We tried to play a pressure/containment game but we’re not mobile enough to execute properly so ver extended periods
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,576
It's going to be a long and wasted decade in front of us fellas.

I think I'm going to give next season a miss me thinks and only come back to watching us play if I see some real change in direction by this club on all the fundamentals we are so woefully lacking.

Power House My Arse!
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,576
I think what he was saying is our players particularly forwards are unsuited to a defensive game plan. We tried to play a pressure/containment game but we’re not mobile enough to execute properly so ver extended periods

My statement still stands though.

Defence needs to be our mantra and then everything will follow on the back of that.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,782
It is very hard to believe that either Ryles or Hannay could or would interview better then someone like Cheika and how well he presents and his stellar and successful portfolio overall.

You have two very limited and unimpressive speakers with almost no head coaching of note backgrounds and a heap of maybe and ifs surrounding them.

Then you have a born leader of men and man manager that has done plenty as the main man in charge and succeeded with glowing praise from so many who have had the privilege of his association and seen him his work.

As for not having coached NRL before, well neither have any of the other serious candidates. The fear is that maybe he won't be able to cut it as a NRL coach coming from Union and the Alan Jones experiment is always cited as a relevant example of this impending failure that is almost guaranteed to happen.

Well I say bollocks! Jones was from another era and didn't at that time have the professionalism of today and the standards that Cheika has been exposed to and applied over the years. He knows the level of fitness and that a full and comprehensive program is needed if you want to be successful at this level. I also think he would know that he will need great assistants as do most current NRL coach to do the daily X's and O's stuff and as will either of the other candidates too.

Back on Jones, Hell Jones used to send the boys home if they felt to tired and the weather was to warm ffs! Go home fellas, go home he used to say waving his hand for them all to leave, as stated by Blocker on numerous occasions and how all the fellas used to laugh and go to the pub.

I think we have moved on way past that type of coaching wouldn't most of us all agree?

Cheika is a totally different type of cat. We will totally miss a massive opportunity if we don't take the plunge and appoint Cheika as our next head coach...But hey that is so Parra isn't it?
I’ve been leaning more towards Cheika. People saying his weakness is lack of experience have overlooked the fact that he’s also not an idiot. He would know that’s his weakness and would scour the comp for the best coaching team he can get.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,782
My statement still stands though.

Defence needs to be our mantra and then everything will follow on the back of that.
I’m on fence with it. Head says yes premierships are won with defence so we need to rejig squad to fix up defence, but my heart says f**k that let’s play all out attack and be exciting. No reason why that can’t win a premiership.
 

pazzaeel

Juniors
Messages
790
It is very hard to believe that either Ryles or Hannay could or would interview better then someone like Cheika and how well he presents and his stellar and successful portfolio overall.

You have two very limited and unimpressive speakers with almost no head coaching of note backgrounds and a heap of maybe and ifs surrounding them.

Then you have a born leader of men and man manager that has done plenty as the main man in charge and succeeded with glowing praise from so many who have had the privilege of his association and seen him his work.

As for not having coached NRL before, well neither have any of the other serious candidates. The fear is that maybe he won't be able to cut it as a NRL coach coming from Union and the Alan Jones experiment is always cited as a relevant example of this impending failure that is almost guaranteed to happen.

Well I say bollocks! Jones was from another era and didn't at that time have the professionalism of today and the standards that Cheika has been exposed to and applied over the years. He knows the level of fitness and that a full and comprehensive program is needed if you want to be successful at this level. I also think he would know that he will need great assistants as do most current NRL coach to do the daily X's and O's stuff and as will either of the other candidates too.

Back on Jones, Hell Jones used to send the boys home if they felt to tired and the weather was to warm ffs! Go home fellas, go home he used to say waving his hand for them all to leave, as stated by Blocker on numerous occasions and how all the fellas used to laugh and go to the pub.

I think we have moved on way past that type of coaching wouldn't most of us all agree?

Cheika is a totally different type of cat. We will totally miss a massive opportunity if we don't take the plunge and appoint Cheika as our next head coach...But hey that is so Parra isn't it?
Parra AF
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
150,888
100% - Cheika would have transformed this club on & off the field. The profile it would have given the club and potential exposure for more world-class high performance people he could have lured to this club.

Now we run the risk of sinking further into the hole with an unproven Ryles who all he has done is be a spitbag for Bellamy.

And coached some side in the A-Grade Wollongong comp a decade ago.

Like Ryles is going to bring any quality from Melbourne to support him.

Kearney never did all he brought up from Melbourne was the magic trifecta in Billy Rogers, Luke Kelly & Brad Arthur.
Axis of *Baldness
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,769
Still players not doing their jobs. I agree Moses isn’t perfect but as I said I think he’s closer to doing his job than others are to theirs, even factoring in pay differences.
He gets sloppy service, players don’t give him options/engage defence, Gutho and Drown aren’t connecting with him at the level they should.
The best he’s looked this year is when Cartwright is running purposeful angles and Penisini has proper depth. And he’s getting energetic service from ruck.

You're right - he is being let down by his teammates.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
28,782
You're right - he is being let down by his teammates.
I think he’s developed into more of the player you want but he isn’t completely all the way there. Like a lot of his teammates, if we could transplant their current experience (minus the attitude) into their bodies 5 years ago….

Edit - he’s also partly to blame because of his price tag meaning we can’t spend that much more on his teammates. Although some of the worst offenders are also fairly high priced
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
87,532
The problem is they aren’t unsigned in June. Maybe we planned it well with Lomax, or maybe we got lucky, but in any other year where you’ve got theoretical cap tied up by a high priced player like Moses or Brown, you still need to respect the fact that they could indeed just take the option. And if they are making their decisions after all the other big cards have signed then there’s not much you can do.
Phil Gould would beg to differ.
 

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