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RWC: are the Wallabies good enough?

imported_Docker

Juniors
Messages
359
After a few rounds (<4) the bottom team is QLD, the Brumbies isn't looking too crash hot and only NSW look a threat.

I wonder, had Aus got a 4th S12 franchise where would the players have come from? So little resourses spread even more thinly...... hmm...... Did the NZRFU do O'neill a favour?
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
4 NZ teams at the top of the table, and the Aus teams are looking ordinary. It will be interesting to see if this form holds, and if it translates into the same results in 3N play.
 

kiwi@nz

Juniors
Messages
5
I believe the form of the current Aussie teams has no bearing on the outcome of the World cup.
They will still be competitiveas recent history shows..
Traditionally Nz teams have dominated the Super 12 only to fold in the big games to the Aussies.
I think this season its more about peaking at the right time.
Its a long season expecially for the Kiwi teams,theres the tour,Tri Nations,N.P.C and finally the one that counts .....the world cup..
 
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ozbash

Guest
Traditionally Nz teams have dominated the Super 12 only to fold in the big games to the Aussies.

i cant agree there, nz has for some time previously been top of the union ladder.
aussie, recently, have enjoyed a bit of opportunistic sucess over us,thanks largely to john eales kicking prowess and sth african refs.

nz footy is in good shape it seems this season.
aussie seems to be struggling and i think that struggle will continue to include the world cup.
nobody can work out what they (oz) are up to.. are they just having a bad 2003 season (and the latter part of 2002) ?
are they trying to synchronise a "peak"for the w/c ?
have they put too much faith in the league converts ?

for me,the dangerous team are the springboks and the poms...

the important thing is that oz dont make the semis and the average oz footy fan wants to see that back stabbing bastard, o'niel crucified..

 
Messages
123
No matter how hard I try I just can't seem to feel any pity for the back-stabing ARU


Thanks to the NZ Herald.


<span>Sounds of doom in a big year[/B]</span>
<span>05.04.2003
</span><span>By CHRIS RATTUE In a country noted for sporting optimism, Australia's rugby brigade has been making some strange sounds of pessimism in World Cup year. On the face of it, Australian rugby should be riding high. They are the most successful country in the short history of the cup, and the champions. The Brumbies have been among the pacesetters - even the trendsetters - in the Super 12, although they have won the trophy only once. The more dour Reds from Queensland are usually semifinals contenders, although they are in a lull, and the Waratahs made it to the playoffs for the first time last season. The national administrators confidently and constantly push for a fourth Super 12 team. And Australia will host the entire World Cup this year to help showcase the game against powerful rival football codes. Yet Australia's top-level success is starting to be exposed as a veneer that could be cruelly exposed on their own doorstep this year. This week, Sydney Morning Herald rugby journalist Greg Growden wrote of Australia's World Cup prospects: "The serious threat of F for failure. Only the foolhardy would bet on Australia retaining the World Cup ... neither the skill level shown by the three Australian teams nor their commitment at the breakdown, which is well below that shown by the New Zealanders, augurs well." New Zealand Herald interviews reveal a lack of confidence in the direction of Australian rugby under all-powerful chief executive John O'Neill. Queensland coach Andrew Slack, a fine Wallaby captain, said earlier this year that a "fair deal of pain" would be initially involved if Australia were granted a fourth Super 12 team, so thin is their talent. A leading Sydney rugby official told the New Zealand Herald: "Australian rugby is on the way down and in trouble for the World Cup. "Anger at the grassroots level of the game is growing. The 12 clubs in Sydney supplying 75 per cent of the players get a grant of $88,000 each a year - double the total grant and you are close to what one player, Wendell Sailor, got. "The ARU and Super 12 franchises are finding it harder and harder to recruit Super 12-standard players. Bob Dwyer [Waratahs coach] has resorted to the mass recruitment of league players to solve this problem. "The main reason for declining player numbers and standards is the almost complete lack of investment in grassroots rugby. "The ARU now has the bureaucracy of a small nation ... 171 fulltime staff at the ARU gearing up for the World Cup. "The strength of Australian rugby used to be the separateness of New South Wales and Queensland. "Now John O'Neill rules all the provinces with an iron fist. Now there is just homogenised rubbish played by the three franchises overseen by the national coach. "At the end of this year, the fantastic profits driven by O'Neill by totally disenfranchising the grassroots may be contrasted against the empty trophy cabinet." This same official, who did not want to be named for fear that O'Neill would cause his organisation to suffer, said the chief executive was a "corporate genius" and a "brilliant businessman," but his strategies were wrong. O'Neill is Australia's sports chief executive of the year. Sydney Morning Herald columnist Spiros Zavos said he had "taken Australian rugby to its position of strength." O'Neill has created new test venues, brought the World Cup tournament to Australia, restored New South Wales' financial health, and lifted revenue from $10 million to $70 million in seven years. But others are less enamoured than Zavos with O'Neill, saying he has forgotten to ensure future playing strength. Among the critics is John "Knuckles" Connolly, the tough-talking former Queensland coach who has just returned from Europe. Connolly is unlikely to be a friend of the administration. He epitomised the battle between Queensland and the more influential New South Wales which was the often bitter bedrock of the game in Australia. Connolly would even bar Wallaby coaches from his trainings and didn't mind stepping on toes so, according to sources, O'Neill decided he had to go. A poll of 32 Queensland players apparently gave Connolly a 92 per cent favourable rating. But former Wallaby flanker Jeff Miller, then the ARU's high-performance manager and now Queensland chief executive, was seen as O'Neill's agent on the coaching panel which ousted Connolly two years ago. The Reds have crashed since. Connolly says the failure of below-strength Wallaby teams in Europe is the true indicator of Australian rugby. He says: "I believe Australia has its nose in front for the World Cup, but only because they will be playing at home, and if George Gregan and Stephen Larkham stay fit. But there is a tidal wave behind Australia. "Australian rugby had a natural advantage when professionalism came along because we had been brought up around AFL [Australian Rules] and rugby league. We knew how to analyse players, select teams, run squads." Connolly believes Australia has lost rather than built on those advantages, particularly in going for managerial coaches such as former Wallaby bosses Bob Dwyer and Rod Macqueen, rather than hands-on coaches such as himself. "New Zealand has coaches like Graham Henry and Laurie Mains back in their system. I've never seen New Zealand rugby looking stronger," he says. "We've got one quality loosehead prop in Bill Young. Tighthead Patricio Noriega is injured, which leaves us with one, Ben Darwin. "Our locks are okay, although there's some lack of power there. Gregan's our best halfback, but there's a long way back to [Chris] Whitaker and a long way back to the next one. "If Larkham is missing, there's Elton Flatley, who just isn't in the same category. "Centres are a real issue, and there's a lack of pace on the wings." In contrast, Connolly believes New Zealand has quality players in most positions. The anonymous leading Sydney rugby figure also sees problems at lower levels. He says clubs have to run their own expensive schoolboy competitions, and support from above is "window dressing," whereas "league and AFL are spending millions in this area." Connolly - who described the Queensland club competition as "very poor" - and others have often identified the lack of a national competition as the major hole in the Australian game. It is a problem the ARU seems unable to address. Connolly said: "The big problem is New South Wales. They have 75 to 80 per cent of the resources and playing depth, but in the last decade Matthew Burke is the only world-class player they have produced." Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, Duncan McRae, Ryan McGoldrick and Nathan Blacklock show how the Waratahs would struggle to field a backline without their league recruits. This is not to say Australia will fall over at the World Cup. You don't need depth to win the World Cup, if your best players are fit and good enough. But cracks are appearing in Australian rugby, and it's showing on the Super 12 points table. And there are fears across the Tasman that a Wallaby team starting to run on old legs won't hold together, and that the rain which might pour on their World Cup parade could then turn into a torrent of failure later on</span>
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
It makes sense to me that with the NZ teams looking strong and the 3 Aussie teams struggling, that should be some indication of upcoming form in the WC. But here's another view, from an article on RugbyHeaven:

Wallaby coach Eddie Jones said Super 12 form counted for little. "In the end it's about taking out individual players from those teams and melding them into another team so I don't think the Super 12's a good indicator of World Cup prospects," Jones told AAP. Deans, who also coaches 2002 champions the Crusaders, said the Blues had "raised the bar" in the three-nation, region-based competition. But he said history had shown the two tiers of rugby couldn't be compared. In 1999 the Crusaders and Highlanders played out an epic Super 12 final, won by the Canterbury side, however at the World Cup that year New Zealand's run ended in the semi-finals, upset by France. "The Super 12 and international arena are unrelated," Deans said. "You don't get transferral from one to the other. "You've only got to put 15 players out on the ground and 22 in your squad." Perhaps it's right that the Aussies may lack the depth for a 4th S12 team, but they still have enough to put together one good Wallaby side. NSW and former Test coach Bob Dwyer said the fact that so many players were pushing for All Black honours could make selecting a World Cup-winning Test side difficult. "I'm not so sure that it's a good position to be in," Dwyer said. "Last year they had their Test team well and truly picked and it was the Crusaders with another one or two intruders, now they won't be able to do that. "After going on tour and taking a whole pile of new guys, quite a few new guys presented themselves, now Auckland are runaway leaders of the competition so they'd have to be thinking now, maybe some of the Crusaders blokes aren't there." Dwyer said Australia had the players to successfully defend the World Cup. "I think if we assemble the best of the three teams that we've got we can come up with side that's much, much better than some of the past, and I'm not too sure that they (NZ) can." I've been assuming that the tremendous depth NZ is showing now is a good thing, but maybe it will actually make it harder to select a cohesive All Blacks side with so many choices available.
 

imported_JoeD

Juniors
Messages
653
NSW and former Test coach Bob Dwyer said the fact that so many players were pushing for All Black honours could make selecting a World Cup-winning Test side difficult. "I'm not so sure that it's a good position to be in," Dwyer said. What a dork. Having too many good players isn't a good position to be in? Just ask the aussie cricket team. They suffer from having too many good players as well and what happened to them? they won the WC.
 

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