Sack Adam O'Brien

[aqua_duck]

Yes, because everyone still thinks that, most of all Manly fans. That club that is 2 points above us on the ladder running 13th.

I'm sure someone would pick up AOB eventually. I mean, Trent Barrett kept getting jobs. Nobody is picking him up next year or the year after if we sacked him this year though, because the other clubs with dud coaches just ditched their dud coaches and hired someone better.

Barrett has the advantage of a distinguished playing career which kind of fed into the narrative that he was some sort of attacking genius.

 

[Woody90]

The coach is a super easy scapegoat in any sport.

But when we keep sacking coaches and nothing ever really changes, perhaps it’s time to look further into it.

Remember when everyone thought Anthony Seibold was a bad coach and was never going to get another job after the Broncos?

Sometimes the coach takes the brunt for a poorly run club because he is the public face for it.

Time will tell if he is a good coach elsewhere. There is such a shortage of good experienced coaches in the NRL that someone will take him on.

Anthony Seibold is a bad coach. Manly are absolutely terrible. I’d argue they’re no better than we are from what we’ve seen this year.

To be fair, speaking with Manly fans most believe that a lot of their issues this year are on Des Hasler who built the side leading to salary cap issues, but none of them think Seibold has shown he can help them. Some of their recruitment decisions this year have been interesting to say the least.

I would be shocked if he gets another job after this one.

 

[Alex28]

Parr’s role is director of football which is different to a football manager who acts in an operational support capacity at most clubs. In terms of football and leagues club joint CEO, I’m a fan of the idea but the roosters and Panthers also have a single ceo so it’s not a unique concept.

How do you classify AOB as a good experienced coach? Also what do you think puts him above guys like Stone, Mary, Morris or Jason Taylor even?
Before any assumptions are made I’m not advocating for hiring any of the above names but merely painting a picture of what tier of coach AOB is in according to his record.
AOB might be a decent coach under all the supposed circumstances but there is literally nothing in his body of work to suggest he’s even an average NRL coach

Director of football… football manager… it’s essentially the same thing in our circumstance. Who does he report to? Phil Gardiner.

AOB got us to two final series in a row with a pretty average, undisciplined team. He’s not as bad as you guys think.

The issue is the circumstances - the Knights are unfortunately a basket case with issues starting at the very top. Getting the most out of poker machines is not the same thing as getting the most out of a football team. There needs to be some form of separation.

Wasn’t there something a few weeks ago in Barry Toohey’s column that Phil has appointed one of his mates around the recruitment role? His son also plays for a lower grade team?

 

[Woody90]

Also I’m certainly not discounting the possibility of AOB going to another club and finding success (it’s unlikely, but wouldn’t rule it out). That’s not the point though. He’s had 4 years of suggesting that he’s not the right coach for US, and that itself is reason to move someone on, regardless of how they go elsewhere.

Also I’m not sure what’s wrong with fans on a forum calling for a change in coach. Most of us support the club financially, some of us have travelled from Sydney to watch them play for years. No they don’t care what we think now they have Wests financial backing, but we’re still entitled to our opinion.

I also don’t understand the reasoning that AOB will go on to be successful else as if it’s something that all our other previous coaches have done. Brown also didn’t perform at Warriors and is no longer coaching in the NRL, Rick Stone wasn’t offered another contract in the NRL, Hagan was sacked from Parramatta after their performances tanked. The only one of our previous coaches for the last 20 years that went on to get another NRL job and be relatively successful is Bennett (and being honest his post-Knights success hasn’t been as prominent as pre-Knights).

We’ve obviously had a lot of issues at the club over the past 20 years and I don’t think anyone would blame the head coach purely for all of that. But when coaching is obviously an issue, and the majority of our previous coaches haven’t been successful elsewhere, you have to at least acknowledge that signing poor head coaches has been at least a big part of the issue.

 

[aqua_duck]

Director of football… football manager… it’s essentially the same thing in our circumstance. Who does he report to? Phil Gardiner.

AOB got us to two final series in a row with a pretty average, undisciplined team. He’s not as bad as you guys think.

The issue is the circumstances - the Knights are unfortunately a basket case with issues starting at the very top. Getting the most out of poker machines is not the same thing as getting the most out of a football team. There needs to be some form of separation.

Wasn’t there something a few weeks ago in Barry Toohey’s column that Phil has appointed one of his mates around the recruitment role? His son also plays for a lower grade team?

Parr’s role is more akin to a general manager who is above the coach as opposed to a football manager who is in an operational support role assisting the coach, it’s a massive distinction. AOB guided us to consecutive 7th place finishes followed by week 1 elimination, so in the glory years we were an average team and now we’re below average, how is that any better than Mary or Rick Stone again?
Also for what it’s worth, most of the CEOs in the NRL aren’t people with a football background, Brian Fletcher was manager of a race course, Aaron Warburton was in marketing, same as Justin Rodski and Ryan Webb,Dave Donaghy was an AFL journo and PR manager, Blake Solly a solicitor, and Joe Kelly an accountant. CEOs are most in charge of the commercial side of the business and I’d say Phil and Wests have more than delivered on that front, the appointment of Parr was supposed to take Phil away from managing the football side of the business.

 

[Haffa]

AOB got us to two final series in a row with a pretty average, undisciplined team. He’s not as bad as you guys think.

So basically all we need is for a pandemic to break out so AOBs span of control is maximised. What he’s shown is he can’t get us to a final series without the team going into lockdown.

 

[aqua_duck]

So basically all we need is for a pandemic to break out so AOBs span of control is maximised. What he’s shown is he can’t get us to a final series without the team going into lockdown.

I typically hate comparing NRL to other occupational fields but imagine AOB was a real estate agent and he had a 4 year tenure where he was a mid level performer during his best years and a bottom performer the other years, it’s not exactly the type of record top firms would look at and think gees we have to have that guy

 

[Exsilium]

I typically hate comparing NRL to other occupational fields but imagine AOB was a real estate agent and he had a 4 year tenure where he was a mid level performer during his best years and a bottom performer the other years, it’s not exactly the type of record top firms would look at and think gees we have to have that guy

I think this speaks to the general lack of quality in the established NRL coaching ranks.

The shift is toward the younger generations of coaches. Andrew Webster, Ciraldo, Ryles etc.

But any club has to be prepared to invest the time into the process and not just expect instant, distinguishable results.

The sooner clubs take this approach, the better RL will be in several year.

 

[Knight Tales]

Suggestions today Smithy is being brought in by NSWRL to assist Fittler as a Coaching Director. Now if he can do that……….

 

[Jono078]

Suggestions today Smithy is being brought in by NSWRL to assist Fittler as a Coaching Director. Now if he can do that……….

As in Brian Smith? There's a lot of Smithys out there! Cameron Smith would be quite a shock..

 

[Knight Tales]

As in Brian Smith? There's a lot of Smithys out there! Cameron Smith would be quite a shock..

Brian.

 

[Jono078]

What are everyone's thoughts on John Morris?

He's done as good as an apprenticeship as anyone and did a fairly reasonable job with the top gig at the Sharks.

I suspect he'd be one of the favourites if (when) we move on from AOB.

 

[Woody90]

What are everyone's thoughts on John Morris?

He's done as good as an apprenticeship as anyone and did a fairly reasonable job with the top gig at the Sharks.

I suspect he'd be one of the favourites if (when) we move on from AOB.

Underwhelming but would take him over someone like Mary definitely.

Im annoyed we didn’t bite the bullet earlier and go for Flanagan. He’ll do well at the Dragons (well maybe, that board of theirs is a bit of a shit show).

 

[macavity]

A retread isn’t changing anything for us.

Amazing we think someone who failed elsewhere… might just get it done here in no doubt more challenging circumstances.

whatever they do, if we sack him I hope they take their time and do a proper search, not just rely on NRL media or their manager mates to do it for them as usually happens.

 

[ryan.a87]

Question about heiarchy of coaching staff

the next coach up seems to always be a failed coach from another club, or an assistant at a successful club

why are head coaches from successful nsw cup teams or ESL teams never looked at?

 

[Mr_Knightside]

On the topic of John Morris, did the guy actually fail???

He was coaching the Sharks through a pretty difficult time, after Flanagan had been let go and they were in some cap trouble as well as a lot of controversy being associated with the club and he got them into the finals in back to back years. Then he was shown the door about a month into the next season in pretty bizarre circumstances. IMO the guy did the best he could with a club and roster in turmoil and I definitely think he can walk away from that with his reputation enhanced somewhat.

He's known for being quite a good developer of young talent and spent his early coaching years bringing kids through the Cronulla system and getting them ready for first grade... Kinda seems like something we need doesn't it?

He's also a young coach who was playing the game until not long ago so would have his finger on the pulse and have a good understanding of modern Rugby League. He's not a dinosaur like Mary who hasn't laced up a boot for 20+ years.

The counter argument that will doubtlessly be made is that Fitzgibbon did a better job at the Sharks in his first season after Morris was sacked but Fitzgibbon did have the luxury of having Nicko Hynes and Dale Finucane in the team which had a dramatic impact, Morris never had a roster as strong as what Fitzgibbon has now.

The coaching market isn't flush with great options right now and it's not like we would be able to attract an elite coach because they're already coaching at successful clubs, so realistically we're either going to have to go with someone unproven or someone who has had a crack at another club or two already. At least from my perspective I would much rather have a guy who's got some runs on the board already and has then had time back at an assistant coach level for a little bit and has probably learnt a lot from the overall experience.

Personally I think John Morris would be my pick of the options that are currently available. Either way if the club decides to sack AOB they need to do so with a clear idea in mind of who they are targeting. No sense in sacking the guy and then saying "well let's see who applies" because that's just going to lead us into more uncertainty. Of course they should field expressions of interest from candidates but they need to have a clear direction of what they actually want from a coach and an idea of who will best deliver what they want otherwise we're wasting another 3-4 years.

 

[Mr Angry]

Amazing we think someone who failed elsewhere… might just get it done here in no doubt more challenging circumstances.

Cannot agree with this, John was handed a team in breach of the salary cap with the likes of Dugan, Woods a broken Moylan and Fifta on one leg.

He had two years where he could not change the squad. When he could they removed him, had the temerity to ask Fifita to medically retire, this was his downfall IMO.

Kennedy, Katoa, Sifa, Mulitano, Trindall, Rudolf, Uele, Wilton, BBrailey and Nikora all came through to first grade with John as coach.

FTR Ftiz has not done any better, we made the finals as we did with John and limped out quickly. Fitz has done well with the money John never had. We never had 50 put on us with John either.

I am happy enough with Fitz, I just disagree John Morris was a failure.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Cannot agree with this, John was handed a team in breach of the salary cap with the likes of Dugan, Woods a broken Moylan and Fifta on one leg.

He had two years where he could not change the squad. When he could they removed him, had the temerity to ask Fifita to medically retire, this was his downfall IMO.

Kennedy, Katoa, Sifa, Mulitano, Trindall, Rudolf, Uele, Wilton, BBrailey and Nikora all came through to first grade with John as coach.

FTR Ftiz has not done any better, we made the finals as we did with John and limped out quickly. Fitz has done well with the money John never had. We never had 50 put on us with John either.

I am happy enough with Fitz, I just disagree John Morris was a failure.

This was my point exactly from my post earlier. I'm glad a Sharks fan sees it the same way.

 

[Jono078]

Yeah basically the above few posts sum up my thoughts on John.

I think he is my pick of the bunch now.

 

[SamSepi0l]

Yeah basically the above few posts sum up my thoughts on John.

I think he is my pick of the bunch now.

100%. Morris is first choice then there's a huge gap.