Sack Adam O'Brien

[Mr_Knightside]

I'd go Brad Arthur but there seems to be a likelihood that this is a non-starter - he'd basically be taking his mate's job, and I've heard he's trepidatious about coaching his own son after the gross & unfair abuse Jake Arthur copped for being a nepo baby from Eels fans (Jake is dominating NSW Cup and is competent if unspectacular when he subs in in first grade, he's no star but there's no question he's earned every NRL jersey he's gotten).

In which case yeah, Morris. Pretty much the only guy on that assistant carousel who has actually had an extended run as a first grade coach and acquitted himself well. Transitioned out of an old, washed team, blooding heaps of the players who came through their system & kept the team competitive over that period, and then copped the sack before he got a real chance to show what he could do with the players whose development as week to week NRL players he stewarded. The Knights are going to need to make a similar sort of transition.

Only real worry with Morris' record is that he's sort of an inverse-AOB. They could always find ways to score points even when his marquee player at that time (Shaun Johnson) and experienced halfback in Chad Townsend were both out, and they were relying on some combination of Connor Tracey and a very young Braydon Trindall as their halves. But they had issues with defensive resilience, second efforts. Hard to say how much of that is coaching and how much is personnel (eg having to rely on Aaron Woods to play A LOT of minutes pretty much every game). You'd just have to hope that the ability to tough it out in defence for long periods is something a bit more baked into the club now (and try to find the right defensive assistant).

But when he got fired a lot of his playing group clearly was not happy with it & I've heard him get strong wraps from halves who developed while he was there, how much he helped improve their game. I think that lines up with a clear improvement area we'll have next year.

Yep my thoughts 100%

The bloke got the shaft at Cronulla after doing a lot of hard work to bring players through and also had them playing pretty good football at the same time. Fitzgibbon had obviously done well since then (with the help of some good recruiting too) but Morris brought a lot of those guys through the system and doesn’t seem to get a lot of credit for that.

Honestly right now I’d much rather be a good attacking team with defensive issues rather than what we are now which is a gritty defensive unit that doesn’t know what to do with a football once it’s in our hands. At least if we could attack we’d be fun/frustrating to watch each week rather than just plain frustrating. And we would win about as many as we’d lose. Right now, watching us play, I just feel completely disengaged, I’d rather be on my phone looking at SuperCoach scores than watching the actual game. I was at the game last Friday night and just found it tedious more than anything.

That being said, credit to AOB and the current coaching staff for building a strong defensive mentality at the club because we certainly didn’t have that for the best part of 10-15 years prior to him being here. It’s just a shame that for some reason it has come at the complete expense of our attack which is hard to work out. Yes I know we’re very banged up in the front row which is hurting our ability to get on the front foot but it looks like the attacking creativity has been completely coached out of them.

Let’s say we hired Morris, I’d be banking on him + assistants (not Blake Green thanks) to get the attack working again and be able to maintain the defence to a similar level to what it is now. If he (or whichever coach they bring in) can achieve that then we should be looking at a consistent top 6 side at the very least.

 

[Apey]

Theres definitely something to be said about how offensive watching us play rugby league this year is. We are an affront to the sport. Neutrals barely want to watch us. Hell, I barely want to watch us. If we keep this up all year we'll finish stone motherless last and probably break a record for worst attack of the NRL era.

I don't think it can be understated just how much we're boring everyone to death.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Theres definitely something to be said about how offensive watching us play rugby league this year is. We are an affront to the sport. Neutrals barely want to watch us. Hell, I barely want to watch us. If we keep this up all year we'll finish stone motherless last and probably break a record for worst attack of the NRL era.

I don't think it can be understated just how much we're boring everyone to death.

Even this should be a factor to be considered imo. It’s not like we’re losing most weeks but having close and exciting games. Like the Dragons have lost 3 or 4 games by 1 or 2 points this season (which I’m sure is frustrating for their fans) but you can forgive them for it because they’re in all those games up to their eyeballs.

For us we’re basically out of the game the moment the opposition gets their second try and it’s the 30th minute. So you sit there for another 50 mins knowing that the game is already gone. We’re quite often keeping the opposition’s score somewhat respectable but there’s literally no real contest and at no point do you think we’re going to mount a comeback because recent evidence would show that we literally don’t have it in us.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

I suppose my whole point with the above comment is that we’re not even an exciting watch at the moment. Nothing about what we’re doing excites me at all. It’s just the most big-average, boring, coma-inducing football I think I’ve ever seen.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Anyone who wants us to attack well but be leaky in defence is having a laugh and should go and be a Titans fan because that is what we'd be like. No thanks

Defence is the foundation that successful RL is built on and we at least have that, well we did until recently.

 

[mozza91]

Theres definitely something to be said about how offensive watching us play rugby league this year is. We are an affront to the sport. Neutrals barely want to watch us. Hell, I barely want to watch us. If we keep this up all year we'll finish stone motherless last and probably break a record for worst attack of the NRL era.

I don't think it can be understated just how much we're boring everyone to death.

So true. We are horrific viewing. Obi being content with a boring as f**k grinding style of play and refusing to try anything else has been the biggest blight on his coaching the last 18 months.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Anyone who wants us to attack well but be leaky in defence is having a laugh and should go and be a Titans fan because that is what we'd be like. No thanks

Defence is the foundation that successful RL is built on and we at least have that, well we did until recently.

Who would win in a game out of us vs the Titans I wonder??? Oh look it’s the Titans and it’s happened twice this year.

I’m not for an instant saying that I don’t want us to defend well but right now, if the opposition team gets more than one converted try ahead at any point in the game then they go on to win and win comfortably there doesn’t seem to be any way back into the game for us.

Purely from an enjoyment perspective I would much rather see us lose a game 32-30 rather than 20-0 like against the Dogs or 20-6 against Saints or 28-6 like against Parra. You can disagree with me on that as much as you like, I’m just saying I want to at least gain some level of enjoyment from every game and our current game style gives us almost no hope of that against anyone aside from teams that are decimated by injuries.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Yeah no one is arguing we should defend poorly obviously. But what's interesting about footy is that despite winning the last four comps in a row, Penrith are an anomaly as far as successful teams go, not the norm. Canterbury are the only team to properly replicate the stifling line speed in a set for set grind, yet even their defence this year averages over 18 points conceded per game, which is a pretty good mark but historically not anything special. They're one of three teams averaging fewer than 20 points against atm (them, Melbourne who are barely a tick below 20, and us averaging 19 points conceded).

The thing that has actually most differentiated good and bad teams in the six again era is how good they are at capitalising on huge swings of momentum. Melbourne and the 2023 Broncos scoring from anywhere. The way the Knights counter-attacked in 2023. The brilliant setpieces of the 2023 Warriors. The 2024 Roosters and the current Raiders getting a roll on via the power game and just running over the top of the opposition with second phase play and great support. Etc.

It's mostly just Penrith who's amazing at never letting the momentum swing in the first place. If we want to be this tough, grinding, win every game 2-0 if we have to style of team, in what way is that reflected in the roster? If that's what we want, ship Ponga out. Don't invest a massive portion of the cap on dynamic running players in the spine & very little in forwards. Sign the best, most accurate and most powerful general play boot you can and load up on forwards who resemble Fisher-Harris and Leota.

The #1 swing factor in how successful we'll be next year is how well the club can design and implement an attacking system built around Ponga, Brown and Sharpe. You want to win via elite attacking talent with a bargain bin pack, the way Melbourne do, you have to be a brilliant attacking team, not one that's awful unless running downhill against reserve graders. That will require creativity and unorthodox thinking. This is not something I associate with AOB.

Also I think part of our "good defence" this year is teams putting the cue in the rack and just not worrying at all about us in all honesty. But whatever our record is, do we really look like we have a roster designed to grind and grind and keep the ball in play like the Panthers do? No. We look primed to lose 50-0 right now just as soon as we run into a team which is really keen to put a score on.

 

[HarVeeGee]

(And I do absolutely agree that an elite defensive team is what's most likely to win a comp... a great controlling halfback with an elite boot playing behind a pack with great enforcers, workhorses up and down the lineup... it wins, and I think Penrith are going to be right back at it next year once their better young forwards like Luron Patea improve a bit more. That's what a team built around Jesse Southwell should also look for just incidentally. But if that's what we want from the men's team we should be looking to blow up half the roster we have right now in all honesty... it doesn't look to me like we're recruiting for that type of team)

 

[Yosh]

If we are consistently winning games I'm fine with 10-4 score lines. If we are going to consistently lose games (like we are now) I'd rather it be 20-24.

Does anyone look forward to our games these days?

 

[mozza91]

If we are consistently winning games I'm fine with 10-4 score lines. If we are going to consistently lose games (like we are now) I'd rather it be 20-24.

Does anyone look forward to our games these days?

Our opponents?

 

[ryan.a87]

Toohey teasing a “change in coach” in tomorrow’s toohrys news

my guess is something lame like a new nsw cup coach or something

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Could be Blake Green getting a tap on the shoulder…?

 

[Apey]

Toohey teasing a “change in coach” in tomorrow’s toohrys news

my guess is something lame like a new nsw cup coach or something

I mean he also said this 3 days ago so he's probably just trolling.



Barry is a big AOBeliever.

 

[mozza91]

Toohey teasing a “change in coach” in tomorrow’s toohrys news

my guess is something lame like a new nsw cup coach or something

Sid Foggs are changing the team bus.

 

[Woody90]

It won’t be any of the current coaching staff being tapped on the shoulder. He was asked if there was any “good” news in his column tomorrow and Barry’s 100% behind the current coaching staff.

I find his unwavering support strange. I wonder if the club give him scoops in exchange for defending the current administration and AOB.

 

[Nuke]

Sid Foggs are changing the team bus.

Not sure if you're joking or being serious, but I would not be surprised if this is it. Clever clickbait suggestion, only to be a play on words.

 

[alexwilliams_66692007]

Sure enough, he was referring to Rick Stone getting replaced as coach at Wests lol.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Yeah no one is arguing we should defend poorly obviously. But what's interesting about footy is that despite winning the last four comps in a row, Penrith are an anomaly as far as successful teams go, not the norm. Canterbury are the only team to properly replicate the stifling line speed in a set for set grind, yet even their defence this year averages over 18 points conceded per game, which is a pretty good mark but historically not anything special. They're one of three teams averaging fewer than 20 points against atm (them, Melbourne who are barely a tick below 20, and us averaging 19 points conceded).

The thing that has actually most differentiated good and bad teams in the six again era is how good they are at capitalising on huge swings of momentum. Melbourne and the 2023 Broncos scoring from anywhere. The way the Knights counter-attacked in 2023. The brilliant setpieces of the 2023 Warriors. The 2024 Roosters and the current Raiders getting a roll on via the power game and just running over the top of the opposition with second phase play and great support. Etc.

It's mostly just Penrith who's amazing at never letting the momentum swing in the first place. If we want to be this tough, grinding, win every game 2-0 if we have to style of team, in what way is that reflected in the roster? If that's what we want, ship Ponga out. Don't invest a massive portion of the cap on dynamic running players in the spine & very little in forwards. Sign the best, most accurate and most powerful general play boot you can and load up on forwards who resemble Fisher-Harris and Leota.

The #1 swing factor in how successful we'll be next year is how well the club can design and implement an attacking system built around Ponga, Brown and Sharpe. You want to win via elite attacking talent with a bargain bin pack, the way Melbourne do, you have to be a brilliant attacking team, not one that's awful unless running downhill against reserve graders. That will require creativity and unorthodox thinking. This is not something I associate with AOB.

Also I think part of our "good defence" this year is teams putting the cue in the rack and just not worrying at all about us in all honesty. But whatever our record is, do we really look like we have a roster designed to grind and grind and keep the ball in play like the Panthers do? No. We look primed to lose 50-0 right now just as soon as we run into a team which is really keen to put a score on.

Anomaly how? History shows you need to be at least in the top 3 defensive teams in the comp to win it. There are very few exceptions to this.

No one is saying we should be winning 2-0, thats just silly. However Id rather we be losing because our attack sucks but our defence is there than the other way around. Defence is where it all starts, what performances are built off. Any coach will tell you its far easier to fix attack then it is defence because 90% of defence is attitude not skill and turning players around mentally is what separates the good coaches from the average ones.

Now, even in the last few games our defence seems to be falling away too and that is a massive concern. A change needs to be made and it needs to be made soon otherwise this slide is going to continue and the slope is steep

 

[SamSepi0l]

Anomaly how? History shows you need to be at least in the top 3 defensive teams in the comp to win it. There are very few exceptions to this.

No one is saying we should be winning 2-0, thats just silly. However Id rather we be losing because our attack sucks but our defence is there than the other way around. Defence is where it all starts, what performances are built off. Any coach will tell you its far easier to fix attack then it is defence because 90% of defence is attitude not skill and turning players around mentally is what separates the good coaches from the average ones.

Now, even in the last few games our defence seems to be falling away too and that is a massive concern. A change needs to be made and it needs to be made soon otherwise this slide is going to continue and the slope is steep

100% this. It's not a difficult concept. Matty Johns said something similar re: Broncos mindset and how he'd try and fix them. Get them to approach it like if we have to win 1-0 vs going in trying to win by 30.
Bellamy coaches for the grind.
No one ever accused Bennett of having sides that were too exciting.
It's super consistent.

Right now our problems start and end with the fact we get rolled through the middle every game. We came in knowing that was a weakness this year and that we were very thin from a roster stand point. Unfortunately that just also seems to be where we get all our injuries now. It sucks. There's not a whole lot that can be done immediately.