Sack Griffin

[TruSaint]

If you thought the on field performance was bad, try watching the presser. You will have no relief.

I'll say it again, we are that messed up as a club that the coach is just going to be the fall guy no matter what, but his credibility has been reduced to very little being associated with the club but also not helped by calls of his own.

"We were still in it up until 2 weeks ago and we earnt it". That's just Mary all over, just an insult to fans. It is moot point when you can't get your team up for a game in two months.

Still talking up Corey Norman as a decent pick up for an NRL club and touted as a 'polarising player'. Polarising??? there's not a single Norman supporter left and he is well aware the fans have been calling for him to be dropped for ages. Stubborn.

Questioned about Sims. Rambled and spluttered over himself, no conviction whatsoever. Should just back his own decisions. Speak some truths, not some political BS. The fans deserve so much more for what they've endured under his own staff's poor performance.

Shame on the board.
Shame on the coach.
Shame, shame, shame on the players.

3 years straight.

Hard to argue with any of that.

 

[Saffy]

My opinion is this:
Mary wasn’t a top coach. McGrexit had to happen eventually. I get that. It happened at the wrong time. It should have happened at the end of 2021.
2021 is already a failure.
I originally had faith in Griffin and supported him. Until he made some shocking recruitment decisions.
Grififn has no idea with recruitment. He lost the best player in McInnes. He is going to lose Dufty too. He signed an old dud in McCulloguh. He signed some other nobodies like Alvaro.
He’s recruitment is shit and he has placed faith in the dud Norman over young guns like Sullivan and Clune. Griffin will probably re-sing Norman and let go of Sullivan.
My point is. 2021 is shit. Griffin somehow made it shitter.
Should have kept Mary for 2021 and then got a real coach for 2022 like Flanagan or Wayne or even Bellamy. Grififn isn’t fit to make this club great again.

I agree Griffin has to go why get rid of top try scorer ,only good thing about loosing Matt is has to be good for his career, IV been supported over fifty yrs,got to be worse coach .

 

[Trifili13]

Slippery M, you mentioned that We should snap up Flanagan as he us the only premiership winning coach available. So is Paul Green, would you have him? We saw how it ended up at the Cows with Green after JT retired. Maguire, although not currently available, is a premiership winning coach but look what is happening at the Tigpies, basically the same crap as us with top line players not wanting to come even when offering "overs". Flanagan had a battle hardened team which I will give him credit for as he built that roster.

Cleary hasn't won a comp but has Penrith flying the last 2 years.

My point is you appoint the best person available.

Now you might say that I am contradicting myself but I would pick Flanagan based on what's available, not because he has won a comp before but because during his time at the gummies he seems to have a ruthless streak of win at all costs and probably would not accept the BOD meddling in the running of the team. The gummies team under him also seemed to be tight and wanted to play for him.

 

[carinashark]

Flanno would be good for you guys but you would have to twin him with an assistant that can do a youth development program.
‘Downside is that he is very conservative, that will give you a good defence. He has a resistance to change which has stifled attack. But that may be in the past. With dad you get jnr, who is safe but ordinary.
With no attacking ‘stars’ for sale you have to go with youth and the best youngens are in QLD. Griffin if encouraged and with his Qld knowledge could make some good pickups from up there.
Enjoy mad Monday I know we are.

 

[Kilkenny]

Stick solid for 2022 with Anthony Griffin. Just back him and if it doesn’t work then he is not contracted for 2023 and you can move on. He inherited a roster that was far from ideal, still not ideal as it stands, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Hooks a decent fellow, he can coach, he deserves to be supported in my opinion if only for another season. Judge him at the end of 2022, not now after one season. My opinion only.

 

[Como Connection]

Stick solid for 2022 with Anthony Griffin. Just back him and if it doesn’t work then he is not contracted for 2023 and you can move on. He inherited a roster that was far from ideal, still not ideal as it stands, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Hooks a decent fellow, he can coach, he deserves to be supported in my opinion if only for another season. Judge him at the end of 2022, not now after one season. My opinion only.

Very sensible post.
CC

 

[Lovemedragons]

Stick solid for 2022 with Anthony Griffin. Just back him and if it doesn’t work then he is not contracted for 2023 and you can move on. He inherited a roster that was far from ideal, still not ideal as it stands, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Hooks a decent fellow, he can coach, he deserves to be supported in my opinion if only for another season. Judge him at the end of 2022, not now after one season. My opinion only.

The article by Andrew Webster in today’s smh is confirmation enough for me that Griffin is a waste of another 2 years in the sad Dragons story. He is there due mainly to 10 years of poor decisions from above and he has continued the trend with his own series of poor calls and the complete lack of any good calls (can anyone identify a good Griffin decision so far??) He is not the answer, we should cut our losses but we won’t because the roots of the problem are still running the asylum.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Last night made me realise that Mary is a better coach than Hook. Wow. Just when we think we can't get worse. Actually Price was even worse. There you go Mary has actually 2 coaches worse than him. Well done Mary.

I was really hoping Hook can prove people wrong but he really justified the bad press he got when he got the job. Goes to show how poor our criteria is for selecting a coach not that they had much choice. It was Hook, Young or Furner. All 3 duds.

Flannagan needs to be snapped up ASAP as he is the only NRL GF winning coach available. Bennet will go to Qld. He is eyeing out the new Qld team. I would even go Fittler. If Arthur gets the boot and Parra get Fittler, Saints should maybe go for him. They need a good experienced coach. No rookie or a dud who has been booted by clubs before due to poor coaching.

People seem to blame the BBQ but the downward slide started way before that. Losing to Dogs and Tigers was before the BBQ and if they won those 2 before the BBQ they would have been on 22 pts equal with the Sharks. The for and against is all Hook and the poor defence / attack due to his coaching and poor team selections. The way Hook also handled the selections post BBQ was terrible. If he is not sacked it really shows that the guys making the decisions do not watch the games. Looking at the score yesterday 20-16 and not knowing anything about the game, they would think, geez Saints did well. Lost to the 3rd best side by 4. Wow , top effort, Well done Hook. No idea it was a reserve grade Souths that actually bombed 3 tries and should have been out to 30+ before they put the cue in the rack and lets Saints score points.

You can see why Gould sacked Griffin when they were 4th as well. He knew the style of footy they were dishing up was not NRL standard let alone Finals and made the call before it was too late. In fact the Penrith squad was that good that it masked the dull tactics to be in the top 4 under his guidance. Cleary comes in puts some tactics around the players and they are world beaters. This is what Saints need now. We have the talent just need someone with tactics that can actually make them play to their strengths. And most of all respect the club and the jumper they are wearing because there is none of that at all at the moment. They can use Hook as the guy who weeded out the poor performers which he has now done and they can look for someone to apply the finishing touches to make them finals bound.

Been a tough old season for the fans. I concur with much of what you say here.

Mentioned in another thread - Griffin was let go at the Panthers while they were in the top 4 and close to semi-finals. That's an enormous call to make and can only have been because of flashing red lights and whaling sirens about the coach. It was because of player relationships. Not "white-anting" of him nor Goulds "ego"... they tried to work with him to turn it around but in the end we was punted.

We've effectively paid money in the high six-figures (paying out Paul McGregor) to sign a coach with that on his CV - while the other two options in Furner and Henry weren't much better.

We are signing people on hope.

Not form, credentials, quality, stability, leadership, confidence, success or any other traits anyone would look for when spending money on anything. Spending money on hope...

Signing guys like Widdop, Graham, McInnes, Thompson, Sims and yes Hunt - you knew what you were getting and amongst the assurances - proven quality in their positions. And along the way, around these guys you can then take a chance on a few others eg Vaughan (on the outer at the Raiders), Lafai, Packer, McDonald etc. Sure - you're gonna kiss a few frogs along the way with signings here n there - most clubs do. But..

The overwhelming majority of signings to the Dragons in the last 12 months, perhaps all of them - are hope. From the coaching to the players. Possibly with the exception of Su'a but even then - he's not been around for that long.

We genuinely hope they will go well. But from this season, in my opinion we aren't going forwards at all. Maybe they'll pull a star-signing out of their backsides that'll inject that leadership and class we desperately need. All part of the plan we don't know yet.. But then again that's hope talking.

 

[Dragon David]

Slippery M, you mentioned that We should snap up Flanagan as he us the only premiership winning coach available. So is Paul Green, would you have him? We saw how it ended up at the Cows with Green after JT retired. Maguire, although not currently available, is a premiership winning coach but look what is happening at the Tigpies, basically the same crap as us with top line players not wanting to come even when offering "overs". Flanagan had a battle hardened team which I will give him credit for as he built that roster.

Cleary hasn't won a comp but has Penrith flying the last 2 years.

My point is you appoint the best person available.

Now you might say that I am contradicting myself but I would pick Flanagan based on what's available, not because he has won a comp before but because during his time at the gummies he seems to have a ruthless streak of win at all costs and probably would not accept the BOD meddling in the running of the team. The gummies team under him also seemed to be tight and wanted to play for him.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have Flannagan

 

[Dragon David]

I wholeheartedly agree that we have Flannagan

Sorry, Flanagan. We should have kept Mary for this year and signed up Flanagan for the next 3 years. He is much more up to date with the requirements of building a team and will have better assistants to help him.

I know that Hook and Co have had a hard year with what has happened with Covid, injuries and suspensions/sacking but I don't think Mary would have had as many issues with the players as Hook has had and he might have been able to get us in the top 8 with Flanagan as his assistant for another year.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth and one cannot cry over spilt milk or the gate was opened and the horse has bolted.

 

[chewbacca]

Sorry, Flanagan. We should have kept Mary for this year and signed up Flanagan for the next 3 years. He is much more up to date with the requirements of building a team and will have better assistants to help him.

I know that Hook and Co have had a hard year with what has happened with Covid, injuries and suspensions/sacking but I don't think Mary would have had as many issues with the players as Hook has had and he might have been able to get us in the top 8 with Flanagan as his assistant for another year.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth and one cannot cry over spilt milk or the gate was opened and the horse has bolted.

Hook may be able to coach football but it takes more than that to be a successful Head Coach. I really wonder about his judgement when he looks to sign Folau or put De Belin in as captain.
And in the same breath let players like McInnes and Sims go. It shows a hard-headedness that has blinkers on, and a dinosaur approach to how modern organisations actually work. It's not about being woke, it's just about understanding the dynamics of public perception and culture that then reflecting that back on to your organisation and the standards it wants to set. Can you imagine any other modern organisation in this country that would even entertain bringing Falou into their business? Could you imagine Trent Robinson making these sorts of decisions?
Modern, forward thinking organisations need modern/forward thinking people in charge. Especially in today's world. Our dragons feel like an organisation that has no idea about that dynamic.....and it's not about age, it's about attitude.
Running an organisation with lots of young people in your employment takes a special kind of leadership in this day and age. Just because they are footballers doesn't make it any different.

Hook probably knows a lot about football, but I have seen enough and heard enough to suspect that his essence as a person and a manager is holding back his judgment in the bigger areas that really count.

Smart clubs understand the difference.

 

[Dragonslayer]

As I've stated previously, this thread is always good for a laugh.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

As I've stated previously, this thread is always good for a laugh.

Or at least a good shake of the head!

 

[be55]

As I've stated previously, this thread is always good for a laugh.

Mate if you are going to make statements showing your obvious contempt for posters and the comments that they make, at least have the guts to reply to them directly...

No offence but some of your recent comments about people needing to "see a brighter light" and people needing to learn to join the dots, and referring to posters as "fish in a barrel", really do make you sound like a bit of an arrogant knob...

 

[Kilkenny]

Been a tough old season for the fans. I concur with much of what you say here.

Mentioned in another thread - Griffin was let go at the Panthers while they were in the top 4 and close to semi-finals. That's an enormous call to make and can only have been because of flashing red lights and whaling sirens about the coach. It was because of player relationships. Not "white-anting" of him nor Goulds "ego"... they tried to work with him to turn it around but in the end we was punted.

In Griffins defence, the fallout at the Panthers was really all about his falling out with Gus Gould. He did have issues with some players, in particular Matt Moylan who left the club at the end of season 2017, but for the most part I think it is fair to say he had the support of the majority of the then playing group. His relationship with Gould deteriorated at the beginning of season 2018 during a pre season game against the Bulldogs when they had a very public spat in the tunnel at half time. It clearly never recovered. The Panthers finished 5th at seasons end but only two points off 1st place as the four sides above us all finished on 34 points, we had 32. His sacking really wasn’t about player relationships, it was about the fact he and Gould could no longer work together. Gould sacked Hook and not long thereafter Gould left the Panthers after he himself was undermined by the Board, Chairman of the Board in particular when Ivan Cleary was brought back into the fold a decision that blindsided Gus.

At the end of the day, it largely doesn’t make all that much difference to me personally, but it doesn’t make a lot of business sense to give one coach 7 or 8 seasons, and the incoming replacement coach is only given one season before being discarded.

It is worth noting Hook guided the Panthers to three successive semi finals appearances before being sacked. The coach who replaced him Ivan Cleary finished 10th in 2019 before obviously bouncing back this past two seasons.

Anyway, good luck in the future my late father in law, was a Dragons tragic, so I have a soft spot for you guys in his memory.

 

[Dragon David]

In Griffins defence, the fallout at the Panthers was really all about his falling out with Gus Gould. He did have issues with some players, in particular Matt Moylan who left the club at the end of season 2017, but for the most part I think it is fair to say he had the support of the majority of the then playing group. His relationship with Gould deteriorated at the beginning of season 2018 during a pre season game against the Bulldogs when they had a very public spat in the tunnel at half time. It clearly never recovered. The Panthers finished 5th at seasons end but only two points off 1st place as the four sides above us all finished on 34 points, we had 32. His sacking really wasn’t about player relationships, it was about the fact he and Gould could no longer work together. Gould sacked Hook and not long thereafter Gould left the Panthers after he himself was undermined by the Board, Chairman of the Board in particular when Ivan Cleary was brought back into the fold a decision that blindsided Gus.

At the end of the day, it largely doesn’t make all that much difference to me personally, but it doesn’t make a lot of business sense to give one coach 7 or 8 seasons, and the incoming replacement coach is only given one season before being discarded.

It is worth noting Hook guided the Panthers to three successive semi finals appearances before being sacked. The coach who replaced him Ivan Cleary finished 10th in 2019 before obviously bouncing back this past two seasons.

Anyway, good luck in the future my late father in law, was a Dragons tragic, so I have a soft spot for you guys in his memory.

I like what you say Kilkenny. Mary had 7-8 seasons, Hook only one so way too early for goodbyes. This time next year though, we will see.

Good luck for the finals. Hopefully you will go one better this year.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

In Griffins defence, the fallout at the Panthers was really all about his falling out with Gus Gould. He did have issues with some players, in particular Matt Moylan who left the club at the end of season 2017, but for the most part I think it is fair to say he had the support of the majority of the then playing group. His relationship with Gould deteriorated at the beginning of season 2018 during a pre season game against the Bulldogs when they had a very public spat in the tunnel at half time. It clearly never recovered. The Panthers finished 5th at seasons end but only two points off 1st place as the four sides above us all finished on 34 points, we had 32. His sacking really wasn’t about player relationships, it was about the fact he and Gould could no longer work together. Gould sacked Hook and not long thereafter Gould left the Panthers after he himself was undermined by the Board, Chairman of the Board in particular when Ivan Cleary was brought back into the fold a decision that blindsided Gus.

At the end of the day, it largely doesn’t make all that much difference to me personally, but it doesn’t make a lot of business sense to give one coach 7 or 8 seasons, and the incoming replacement coach is only given one season before being discarded.

It is worth noting Hook guided the Panthers to three successive semi finals appearances before being sacked. The coach who replaced him Ivan Cleary finished 10th in 2019 before obviously bouncing back this past two seasons.

Anyway, good luck in the future my late father in law, was a Dragons tragic, so I have a soft spot for you guys in his memory.

According to a former dragon who played for the panthers under Griffin….. it’s a different story. Funny they worked together this season… wonder how that all went…

I give you Jamie Soward…

Penrith 'reached their ceiling' under Griffin

Former Panther believes the team will play better since coach's departure

wwos.nine.com.au

Retired NRL player Jamie Soward said he had first-hand experience with Anthony Griffin's problematic coaching style and believes the Panthers will actually play better since his departure.

Speaking on Sports Sunday, Soward confirmed some of the criticisms directed at Griffin and his approach to coaching and managing players.

"I only spent a short time with Anthony Griffin, but from what I found he was very poor in his communication skills," Soward said.


The former NRL halves specialist played for Penrith between 2014-16, and said the Panthers' controversial decision to punt Griffin weeks out from the finals was the right call.

Soward even suggested Penrith will improve without Griffin at the helm.

"I felt two weeks ago that they had reached the ceiling under Anthony Griffin," he said.

"The game plans were not conducive to the style of football that those guys out there wanted to play and we only saw the best out of the Penrith Panthers when they got behind.

"You'll see the players play a lot freer now. Guys like Sione Katoa, his game had changed.


I've played with a lot of these guys. You watch how they played before Anthony Griffin got there."



Former Penrith player Jamie Soward believes the Panthers will play better now that Anthony Griffin is no longer coach.


Soward was critical of how Griffin had handled the array of young talent that has been coming through the Panthers juniors ranks to the NRL, and said it was a similar case when he was coach of the Brisbane Broncos.


"I think they [Penrith] have under-achieved the last couple of years under Anthony Griffin," Soward said.

"He had a very talented squad that people forget about in Brisbane between 2011 and 2014. Three finals series but failed to go any further than that."

Soward said he was most "alarmed" by Griffin's dismissal of the efforts of junior coaches in helping the Panthers have one of the most talented young squads in the NRL.

"They had won junior competitions. The academy that they built was all in place before Anthony Griffin got there," Soward said.

"This is what I took offence to - in 2014 we were one game short of the grand final. That to me seemed like a pretty good place [to be in].

They debuted a lot of juniors that had won the 20s competition. 2015 in the NRL side wasn't great but they still had plenty of young guys come through."

 

[Lovemedragons]

bump

 

[Evil Emperor Zurg]

bump

Reverse bump.

Let’s give him a chance huh.

 

[blacksafake]

Reverse bump.

Let’s give him a chance huh.

He also said he’d learnt a fair bit about himself & said he would do things differently while out of the coaching scene.
The fact that Sowie was asked to join the coaching staff this season is probably a positive sign to this.
Having most of the juniors signing is also a good sign imo.