Sack Matt Elliot?

[SOULS 04]

Ok damn i bet im opening up a massive bashing thread but i hope it doesnt end up way.

im looking for real discussion on this one... so here goes.

I think in the time elliot has been here he has done alot of good things and alot of rubbish things.


1. Power
in 2003 he recognised exactly what we had a utilised it. and in one word it was POWER. he had the raiders forward pack dominating so much that it took us to 4th position at the end of the regular season. the problem was thats all we had and knockout blows were very hard to come by.

2. Attack or lack of it
our main attacking move was a macca long chip kick accross field to the afl style catching of joel monas. which was rubbish that thats all we had considering some of the players we had

3. Hooker to half
a massive blunder IMO and still seems to be and he didnt learn after brad drew... he did it again with linc.

4. Injuries
2004 was a real nightmare for us and i like to think what could have been done if we went through without so many. i dont blame elliot for our bad year in 04... was just too damn hard.

5. Glimpses
we have shown glimpses of attacking brilliance especially this year and you have to give the coach credit for them. so why arent they happening more often?

6. The Upsets
this one goes both ways considering we have pulled plenty of massive upsets over the last few years to call them flukes... the problem is as soon as we get on a high we forget to turn up. honestly i reckon this is one of elliots massive downfalls in that he really seems to have the team struggling to be mentally prepared for the games we should win.

7. Selections
the other big downfall.. i dont know if its because he is just good mates with alot of these guys that hey get picked or dont get dropped. lets have a look at the list of blokes who really shouldnt have got as much FG as they did. Brad Drew, Matt Gafa, The Immortal Jason Boogarelli, michael robertson, and now the likes of adrian purtell and david howell.

personally i think howell and purtell arent the worst players going around but there are for sure blokes in PL who must be spewing after playing great week after week and not getting a shot.

8. The question
Should we sack elliot? IMO no way... the year is on the way out and i cant see it changing much except giving the canberra club a black eye.]

now feel free to debate any of my points but lets not make it a slanging match

oh my personal rating of elliot is as follows
40%
he has too many big floors but i admit he has done some good things but he leaves us in a pretty ordinary position for 2007

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

You don't move away from an investment until there is a viable option which you can be confident will provide a better return.

Added to that is the fact that Elliot appears very popular with his players and it is likely that the impact of such a decision would be strong.

Look, we were tipped to run last and we`re a win out of the 8. Elliot may not be the most popular guy on the forum, but he's not going so badly.

 

[Bay56]

2001: 11th .. 9W, 16L ... 600F, 623A

2002: 8th ... 10W, 13L ... 471F, 641A

2003: 4th ... 16W, 8L ... 620F, 463A

2004: 8th ... 11W, 13L ... 554F, 613A

2005: 14th .. 9W, 15L ... 465F, 606A

2006: we'll struggle to make the eight

you will notice that other than 2003 we lost more games than we won and more points scored against than for ... in some of those seasons we were near worst defence and worst attack in the league

opinions may differ on this matter ... stats dont lie.

 

[Edwahu]

Its a bit late in the season now.

 

[Phoenix_Raider]

So far this season we've....
*beaten last years grand finalist with a (%100) record
*beaten the premiers (100%)
*beaten the dogs who are 2nd on the ladder (%50)
*beaten the dragons who started the year as comp fav's (100%)
*beaten 5th place manly (100%)
*beaten last years minor premiers (%50)
*and absolutly smashed the roosters (%50) * i know it doesn't mean much this year but it's always good seeing the roosters get smashed..

So when you look at it that way it looks mighty impressive! BUT.... when you know all the finer details of those wins you would realise that wasn't the case.. The raiders have been on too many ups and downs this year and really need all the creases ironed out. (with our new coach hopefully)

So.. don't sack Elliot but i can't wait till seasons end to get rid of him!

 

[legend]

* We are the only full strength team to lose to Souths.
* We are the only team to concede 70+ points in a match
* We've lost pretty much every game we were expected to win (Eels, Panthers, Souths and Sharks)

No point sacking him now but his record and winning % (43.9%) is not very impressive. Only Shaun McRae and Ivan Cleary would have worse records than Elliott and they have been in their roles for half the time Elliott has been with the Raiders.

 

[TiTTieS_[CNTDN]]

You don't move away from an investment until there is a viable option which you can be confident will provide a better return.

Added to that is the fact that Elliot appears very popular with his players and it is likely that the impact of such a decision would be strong.

Look, we were tipped to run last and we`re a win out of the 8. Elliot may not be the most popular guy on the forum, but he's not going so badly.

Just because you are happy with one coach doesn't mean that you won't be happier with a different coach. In other words, they are happy with Elliot but they could be even happier with a different coach.

 

[TiTTieS_[CNTDN]]

opinions may differ on this matter ... stats dont lie.

No, but they can be misleading. However unlikely it may be, it is possible (probably) that every single team you played was in the top four at the time you played them. Conversely, they may have all been cellar dwellars at the time. More likely is that a lot of the teams you played played in a hard fought game the week before and so were drained coming into the next match.

 

[TiTTieS_[CNTDN]]

So far this season we've....
*beaten last years grand finalist with a (%100) record
*beaten the premiers (100%)
*beaten the dogs who are 2nd on the ladder (%50)
*beaten the dragons who started the year as comp fav's (100%)
*beaten 5th place manly (100%)
*beaten last years minor premiers (%50)
*and absolutly smashed the roosters (%50) * i know it doesn't mean much this year but it's always good seeing the roosters get smashed..

So when you look at it that way it looks mighty impressive! BUT.... when you know all the finer details of those wins you would realise that wasn't the case.. The raiders have been on too many ups and downs this year and really need all the creases ironed out. (with our new coach hopefully)

So.. don't sack Elliot but i can't wait till seasons end to get rid of him!

Don't want to sound like a nego, but here goes:

*beaten last years grand finalist with a (%100) record {were in a form slump I believe}
*beaten the premiers (100%) {who were missing the instrumental Benji Marshall}
*beaten the dogs who are 2nd on the ladder (%50) {Very good win seeing that 2 players were missing for most of the game}
*beaten the dragons who started the year as comp fav's (100%) {Barrett came back and too many cooks spoiled the broth for the dragons}
*beaten 5th place manly (100%) {was the start of the year with the team finding Orford's feet}
*beaten last years minor premiers (%50) {again, they were in a form slump}
*and absolutly smashed the roosters (%50) * i know it doesn't mean much this year but it's always good seeing the roosters get smashed.. {exactly, means sh*t all}

So although it looks bad, a lot of those games were still good wins simply for the fact that the team showed good mental strength. However, better teams would have put the oppostion away long ago.

 

[Raider_69]

we havnt sacked him previous to this point, he has 4 games left to salvage some credability... sacking him now wont do anything for us this year and wont help us anymore for next year... let him have his final 4 games, make the most of em Tokyo

 

[Bay56]

No, but they can be misleading. However unlikely it may be, it is possible (probably) that every single team you played was in the top four at the time you played them. Conversely, they may have all been cellar dwellars at the time. More likely is that a lot of the teams you played played in a hard fought game the week before and so were drained coming into the next match.

TITS your comments might hold water over a short period ... those stats are over a five year period ...

I'll make the following observations of those stats ...

1. we get beaten more than we win in all but one season
2. we have more points scored against us in all but one season
3. we've never won a finals match in that period
4. in 2002 we should have finished 9th bar for the bulldogs having points deducted
5. in 2004 we fell into the finals when the Tigers lost their last three matches of the season, we also had the worst defence of all teams in the finals
6. in 2002 we had the 2nd worst attack even though we finished in the finals
7. in 2005 we had the worst attack

 

[Timbo]

2001: 11th .. 9W, 16L ... 600F, 623A

2002: 8th ... 10W, 13L ... 471F, 641A

2003: 4th ... 16W, 8L ... 620F, 463A

2004: 8th ... 11W, 13L ... 554F, 613A

2005: 14th .. 9W, 15L ... 465F, 606A

2006: we'll struggle to make the eight

you will notice that other than 2003 we lost more games than we won and more points scored against than for ... in some of those seasons we were near worst defence and worst attack in the league

opinions may differ on this matter ... stats dont lie.

It really makes you wonder-How the hell did we do it in 2003?

 

[Mal Meninga]

7. Selections
Brad Drew, Matt Gafa, The Immortal Jason Boogarelli, michael robertson, and now the likes of adrian purtell and david howell.

Tyran Smith.... James Evans.... Withers.... Terry Martin....

One too many duds.

 

[paulquinn49]

Robbo was gun, going great at Manly.

 

[aussies1st]

2003 was Elliott peak year, our game plan blew most teams of the park until finals footy came around and the opposite happened. Since then we've just been scraping into the top 8.

But no point in sacking Elliott now, we still have a shot at the 8 so no point in causing internal problems by sacking him.

 

[sydraider]

Agree, its too late to sack him, just ride the rest of the season out. Still cant see us making the 8 anyhows so it wont be too much longer till elliot is gone.

 

[dubby]

*Yawns*

Can we talk about something else please? :BDH:

 

[waltzing Meninga]

No point sacking him now - might aswell give him one last chance to gain some credibility.

Overall its been a terrible 5 years for raiders fans, and I think 75% of it is due to Ellitos coaching ability

 

[Raider_69]

id be inclinde to go with 55% elliott 35% management 10% player's f**king up

 

[Chachi]

Ha ha ha funny stuff. Then we can bring in Dave Furner and everyone can scream 'NEPOTISM!!!'.

Sorry Souls, with 5 rounds to go there is more of a chance us replacing Mogg with Meninga next season. I got totally caned at the start of the season for suggesting we sack him when he signed with Penrith - it didn't happen then and it certainly won't happen now.