Saints heading down the Wests Tigers trail

[Wizardman]

Your club reminds me SO much of my own club (Wests Tigers) and the gradual fall they have had since 2011. At present, your club is roughly at the stage where we were back when we were about to lose three of the big four in Woods, Teddy and Moses. We still had a decent roster but we had crap coaching, crap management and a growing roster of absolute journeyman on the roster. The loss of juniors was a growing problem from a few years before. The spirit in the club was the start of the shit culture that still remains in the Tigers to this day.

*Your clubs presentation night is evidence that all is not well on the team spirit front.
*Your roster has a growing amount of journeymen in it by the year.
*You are losing good juniors and some other juniors want out.
*Your coaching set up does not seem stable.
*You still have some good talent....but that is slowly disappearing.
*Your management is as poor as my club......probably more so these days.

I have no dislike for the Dragons.....but geez, your club looks like mine did before we lost Teddy.

 

[thebigredv]

Your club reminds me SO much of my own club (Wests Tigers) and the gradual fall they have had since 2011. At present, your club is roughly at the stage where we were back when we were about to lose three of the big four in Woods, Teddy and Moses. We still had a decent roster but we had crap coaching, crap management and a growing roster of absolute journeyman on the roster. The loss of juniors was a growing problem from a few years before. The spirit in the club was the start of the shit culture that still remains in the Tigers to this day.

*Your clubs presentation night is evidence that all is not well on the team spirit front.
*Your roster has a growing amount of journeymen in it by the year.
*You are losing good juniors and some other juniors want out.
*Your coaching set up does not seem stable.
*You still have some good talent....but that is slowly disappearing.
*Your management is as poor as my club......probably more so these days.

I have no dislike for the Dragons.....but geez, your club looks like mine did before we lost Teddy.

Hard to argue, definitely parallels there.

The saddest bit is the loss of historic rugby league founding clubs in Wests, Balmain and St George.

I know times have to change but at the expense of the games history? The NRL have done very little in way of ongoing support for the joint ventures which both have logistical problems evident in their functioning. Instead it feels in recent times to drive both teams further into a point of irrelevance when I think of ways they are treated in terms of stadiums, judiciary matters and the like.

Still, the onus is on the clubs to pull themselves out of the mire and its fair to say most averages posters could have done a superior job.

 

[Nanadragon]

Wizardman your words ring oh so true and it's no coincidence that both yours and my club are both "joint ventures".
It's never a good thing when clubs lose their identity.
I am fast losing faith in my Club, the Dragons, being able to emerge from the mess we find ourselves in to be a strong player again in this sport I have followed for 61 years. The Saints of old would turn in their graves.
Good luck to your club and to ours. We're gunna need it!!

 

[Como Connection]

Your club reminds me SO much of my own club (Wests Tigers) and the gradual fall they have had since 2011. At present, your club is roughly at the stage where we were back when we were about to lose three of the big four in Woods, Teddy and Moses. We still had a decent roster but we had crap coaching, crap management and a growing roster of absolute journeyman on the roster. The loss of juniors was a growing problem from a few years before. The spirit in the club was the start of the shit culture that still remains in the Tigers to this day.

*Your clubs presentation night is evidence that all is not well on the team spirit front.
*Your roster has a growing amount of journeymen in it by the year.
*You are losing good juniors and some other juniors want out.
*Your coaching set up does not seem stable.
*You still have some good talent....but that is slowly disappearing.
*Your management is as poor as my club......probably more so these days.

I have no dislike for the Dragons.....but geez, your club looks like mine did before we lost Teddy.

Thanks for your comments on both our clubs, so sad but true.

 

[Coffs dragon]

Wizardmann I sadly agree with your thoughts & comments, however I don’t think we are “heading” down the path….we are well on it already!!
Both Joint ventures have been handicapped by infighting, poor management and woeful decision making in recruitment and retention.
Both our clubs seem to just stumble along making up the numbers.
At least the Tigers have a Centre of Excellence up and running, we just have silence.

 

[Saints Forever]

The smell of death is in the air

we need a massive shake up

 

[possm]

Your club reminds me SO much of my own club (Wests Tigers) and the gradual fall they have had since 2011. At present, your club is roughly at the stage where we were back when we were about to lose three of the big four in Woods, Teddy and Moses. We still had a decent roster but we had crap coaching, crap management and a growing roster of absolute journeyman on the roster. The loss of juniors was a growing problem from a few years before. The spirit in the club was the start of the shit culture that still remains in the Tigers to this day.

*Your clubs presentation night is evidence that all is not well on the team spirit front.
*Your roster has a growing amount of journeymen in it by the year.
*You are losing good juniors and some other juniors want out.
*Your coaching set up does not seem stable.
*You still have some good talent....but that is slowly disappearing.
*Your management is as poor as my club......probably more so these days.

I have no dislike for the Dragons.....but geez, your club looks like mine did before we lost Teddy.

The joint venture experiment sold to four Clubs of the NRL is a failed idea and it should be up to the NRL to rectify the situation.

West Magpies based a Lidcombe paired with Balmain Tigers based at Licharrdt and then moved to Campbelltown has never evolved into the super-club promised by the NRL. Lost identity and disharmony at Board level have made it impossible for the 'West Tigers' to be a success let alone a super club.

The same can be said about the St George Illawarra experiment. The same problems that dogged the Illawarra Club hounded this joint venture until the most drastic measure had to be taken. Financial mismanagement caused set the environment for Illawarra Club to desire joining with St George and the NRL's desire to reduce the number of Sydney teams after the Super League debacle certainly did not deliver a Super Club by joining these two clubs together.

Eventually, Illawarra had to address its financial situation and the fact that they were delinquent with regard to payments to the NRL, St George, and to WIN Corp/Gordons. To make matters worse, backroom deals were done to ensure the best outcome for Illawarra and their WIN Corp / Gordons backers costing the St George Illawarra license a potential cash injection of over 5m dollars.

I say it is now time for the NRL to come to the party and right the ship mo matter how expensive such action will be. The suggested course of action should be:
1. To give notice that the NRL will provide administrators with both NRL licenses to bring stability to the Board.
2. To restructure the Board in a way that the members have a sy in who is appointed to the Board.
3. To provide St George Illawarra and West Tigers with a one salary-cap increase and any other incentives to allow these clubs to rectify their current situations.
4. To formally recognize these and other NRL license holders who perform junior development at club and player level. by establishing a compensation system for the work they perform. Incentives for all clubs to host development should be at the forefront of this action.
5. To scrap the current salary cap system and in its place set up a system in which the NRL contracts and pays the players and the clubs rent the players from the NRL. All TPA is to be organized by the player agent in consultation with the NRL.
6. Work with all levels of Government to ensure grounds and facilities of these are upgraded in line with other stadia.

I feel confident that the above measures would indeed address the mess these two Clubs are stuck in and provide them with an avenue to again perform on and off the field in a competitive way.

 

[This Year?]

Just to think barely over a decade ago both these clubs looked in a strong position and now they're in freefall.
I can't see it changing anytime soon for either club and it's sad to see given their heritage and popularity. Both sets of fans are resigned to it, just see the apathy in the posts.
I think the only way out of it for boths clubs is better people in development and recruitment because you could make 2 very good 1st grade sides out of the players that have left either club over the last decade. Both are development clubs so it's unforgivable that both are so bad. They just feed other clubs talent and put themselves in a worse position.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Saints are far worse than Wests. They signed up Cleary then Maguire and have now sacked Madge for not getting them the results. They chase quality coaches not duds. Sheens will help Benji heaps. They actually have higher standards set than Saints. Hook would be gone if he was at Tigers not re-signed prior to a bad season for an extra year based on a handful of wins. They did extend Madge then sacked him, but they took accountability and sacked him. Left it up to the players to get them out of it if they were not happy and they have not responded. They have also come out and bought the best hooker in the comp and a fantastic backrower so have really tried to address their issues asap not wait and see approach like Saints with their best juniors asking for a release and 27 guys not turning up to a team event which would have been filled with sponsors. Any club would react to that and get rid of the problem, lets see sack 27 blokes or 1? Pretty easy?

The Wests Tigers problem is the playing culture which is creeping into Saints and the Saints let that happen with poor coaches appointed after Bennett left. Players are lazy and getting picked because of favourtism and juniors being ignored when doing all they can to get a chance. Amone, Ramsey and Feagai are exceptions but Ford, Bud, Sloan, Jayden Hunt, any forward in fact from the juniors, and more are not. They should of got a heap more game time than Norman, Maguire, Woods, etc have the last 2 years.

 

[since77]

Your club reminds me SO much of my own club (Wests Tigers) and the gradual fall they have had since 2011. At present, your club is roughly at the stage where we were back when we were about to lose three of the big four in Woods, Teddy and Moses. We still had a decent roster but we had crap coaching, crap management and a growing roster of absolute journeyman on the roster. The loss of juniors was a growing problem from a few years before. The spirit in the club was the start of the shit culture that still remains in the Tigers to this day.

*Your clubs presentation night is evidence that all is not well on the team spirit front.
*Your roster has a growing amount of journeymen in it by the year.
*You are losing good juniors and some other juniors want out.
*Your coaching set up does not seem stable.
*You still have some good talent....but that is slowly disappearing.
*Your management is as poor as my club......probably more so these days.

I have no dislike for the Dragons.....but geez, your club looks like mine did before we lost Teddy.

So true. I have often thought over the last few years that the Dragons board have been lucky that the Tigers have been such a basket case for so long otherwise our management might have had far more media attention cast its way. This club has such a stink about it at the moment and there is just no light at the end of this tunnel with the current board and coach in place. We’re dead set wooden spoon contenders in 2023. And the board are either happy with this situation or are delusional and oblivious to the fact that this is obvious. Unfortunately most smart supporters have seen this train wreck play out in front of them for the best part of a decade and could see what was happening and that is what makes this so hard to keep watching as it gets worse now year after year.
This board and CEO should hang their heads with shame for the mess they have created here.

 

[Trifili13]

Maybe the Dragon's and Wests Tigers should merge and create a Super Super Club. Supporters were previously sold a Super Club so they would have to double down the second time. 2 incompetent boards merged into 1 board with 4 factions running half of Sydney and still f%$#ing it up. I would like it just for the infighting it would create and the commentary on this forum. It would help the NRL to reduce the number of Sydney teams. The NSW government can waste money tarting up Leichhardt Oval which can be our permanent home base. Benji can be bagged by all supporters as a "jobs for the boys appointment" as he played for both teams when things turn sour. What could go wrong?

 

[lemnoc]

More doom and gloom in the media, "Culture Crisis Splits Dragons". They are smelling blood in the water! Can anyone post the latest edition of "Monday's Buzz"in the Daily Tele?

 

[lemnoc]

More doom and gloom in the media, "Culture Crisis Splits Dragons". They are smelling blood in the water! Can anyone post the latest edition of "Monday's Buzz"in the Daily Tele?

 

[Gareth67]

Agree with all your thoughts gentlemen and Wizardman .

I used to have a little chuckle on a number of occasions when a number of our fellow members would say that we were - almost as bad as the Tigpies , as in my mind we are worse than they are .

At least they have a plan for their future and with Mr. Sheens there once again they will begin to climb out from the bottom of the ladder .

Unfortunately I simply cannot see any daylight at the end of the tunnel for our Dragons .

It seems that our board is incapable of actually making decisions that is actually for the betterment of the team itself , in short they are a incompetent mob who would not be able to make a profit at a roadside lemonade stand .

 

[OneEyedDragon]

Agree with all your thoughts gentlemen and Wizardman .

I used to have a little chuckle on a number of occasions when a number of our fellow members would say that we were - almost as bad as the Tigpies , as in my mind we are worse than they are .

At least they have a plan for their future and with Mr. Sheens there once again they will begin to climb out from the bottom of the ladder .

Unfortunately I simply cannot see any daylight at the end of the tunnel for our Dragons .

It seems that our board is incapable of actually making decisions that is actually for the betterment of the team itself , in short they are a incompetent mob who would not be able to make a profit at a roadside lemonade stand .

According to Mr Webb, SGI has made a profit for the last 3 years. So apparently the club is doing OK off the field, just not on the field.

 

[Dragon David]

Agree with all your thoughts gentlemen and Wizardman .

I used to have a little chuckle on a number of occasions when a number of our fellow members would say that we were - almost as bad as the Tigpies , as in my mind we are worse than they are .

At least they have a plan for their future and with Mr. Sheens there once again they will begin to climb out from the bottom of the ladder .

Unfortunately I simply cannot see any daylight at the end of the tunnel for our Dragons .

It seems that our board is incapable of actually making decisions that is actually for the betterment of the team itself , in short they are a incompetent mob who would not be able to make a profit at a roadside lemonade stand .

Agreed Gareth. We need a miracle to bring about a better St George Illawarra Dragons Club of which we can again be very proud to be members and fans. Wizardman has pointed to several things about where we are at the moment as compared to the Tigers and I agree with his assessment. There would be so many others besides ourselves who would know how badly positioned we currently are as a club.

I honestly think that the only way we get out of this mess is to hire an astute and proven person to be our Chief Football Manager and to take full responsibility for the running of everything from coaches and players to employing staff that are best suited to get us back to where we have been wanting for over a decade. None of the bits and pieces of shit that we keep on getting every year by the poor quality of guys we currently have.

 

[TruSaint]

Both of the jv's/mergers were sold a dummy by the NRL when they were enticed to join.

Both have been abject failures.

I actually don't blame the management of either side, because after the Super League war every club was vulnerable. At the time, even if I didnt like it, I understood the rationale.

Decades later and let's be frank. Stand alone clubs like Manly, Cronulla, Souths, Easts, and even the 2004 Bulldogs have all won premierships, so its not as if the "local" clubs just folded. Penrith and Parra have massive memberships and facilities. Look at the 2 merged entities. look at their facilities, management, development and direction.

Its been disastrous, barring one highlight each between the 4 teams/2 Clubs.

 

[Vic Mackey]

I said to 2 of my dragons mates the other night this exact thing. Saints remind me of us in about 2015/16 when we had the likes of Teddy, Moses, Brooks, Papenhuyzen coming through and the worst possible coaching/office setup for the time.

It makes me so sad thinking back to 2005-2011 when we were both strong clubs and had a great rivarlry. Saints/Tigers games were genuine block busters, the highlight of any round. 2 huge Sydney clubs with massive fan bases.

Lets be serious Souths are the most over hyped 'big club' in Australian sport. Satins/Wests 2010 Prelim drew 25k more then Souths/Penrith did this year. The NRL is so much better for clubs like ours being successful then any of the other fake arse 'big' Sydney clubs.

 

[Dragon David]

I said to 2 of my dragons mates the other night this exact thing. Saints remind me of us in about 2015/16 when we had the likes of Teddy, Moses, Brooks, Papenhuyzen coming through and the worst possible coaching/office setup for the time.

It makes me so sad thinking back to 2005-2011 when we were both strong clubs and had a great rivarlry. Saints/Tigers games were genuine block busters, the highlight of any round. 2 huge Sydney clubs with massive fan bases.

Lets be serious Souths are the most over hyped 'big club' in Australian sport. Satins/Wests 2011 Prelim drew 25k more then Souths/Penrith did this year. The NRL is so much better for clubs like ours being successful then any of the other fake arse 'big' Sydney clubs.

You said it Vic.

 

[Gareth67]

According to Mr Webb, SGI has made a profit for the last 3 years. So apparently the club is doing OK off the field, just not on the field.

I was wrong on that point O.E.D , I must confess that my choice of words were not correct in what I was attempting to describe.

Essentially that they were lost when making correct decisions based upon the success of the team , to ensure that St.George Illawarra once again became a force in the NRL .

In my view the Dragons will be fielding a much weaker team in season 2023 than this year . Our recruitment does not have the necessary funds to sign true quality players due in part to the excessive amount of our cap already used in retention of players whom are almost out of their used by date .

I only want what we all do - the best for our team , I just wish that those nitwits in the boardroom would get their act together so as our team is moving in the right direction once again .