Saints 'Strapped for cash'

[Slackboy72]

I'll answer each point one by one:

* Let David Waite go, allowing one of the most incompetent coached I've ever seen lay claim to the privelage of coaching Saints.
- The deal for Andrew Farrar was IIRC part of the JV agreement.
* Rushed a very, very green coach into first grade in 2003 before he, or for that matter the club, was ready for such a change or inexperience.
- Been said before but what other choices did we have at the time? He'd just won a JF GF and was being chased by Melbourne.
* Removing ourselves from Kogarah. Twice.
- Don't you realise what a crap venue Kogarah is? I'd prefer the SFS or ANZ anyday. Screw the sentimentality but a ground where half the spectators have to stand on a hill is pathetic and we should be ashamed, not proud, of it.
* Allowing the WIN TV corporation to purchase one quarter of our club without consulting the members at any time.
- That's an issue for the Steelers.
* Allowing MacGregor anywhere near our players for any medical or fitness reason. Period.
- Please explain???
* Signing players such as Quinten Pongia, Nathan Long, Colin Best, Hassan Saleh, Solomon Haumono and Simon Woolford whilst allowing good depth 1st graders such as Matt Bickerstaff, Lincoln Withers, Clint Greenshields, Aaron Gorrell, George N'Daira, Ashton Simms, Luke Bailey (Although he was never going to stay), Michael Henderson, Craig Stapelton and the rest go. Although people will argue hindsight is 20-20, I say that a club focussed on football should have no excuses for letting talent go like we have.
- I don't need to add to this. Others have pointed out your inability to grasp the salary cap concept.
* Allowing our Leagues Club to fall into the pitiful financial sink it has become.
- Maybe you should take this up with Danny Robinson and Warren Lockwood.
* Doing abso-f**king-lutely nothing to reform the Illawarra Leagues club so it stops leaking the hundreds of thousands it is currently doing a year.
- That's an issue for the Steelers. Why you think Doust has some godlike control of them is beyond me.
* Allowing clubs like the Roosters to buy junior clubs in our own backyard.
- What junior clubs have they bought? Where were they? And what business of ours is it to tell junior clubs what to do?
* Allowing that disgusting red rag of a jersey onto a footy field bearing the name 'St George'.
- You must really hate the Steelers. I don't and I have no complaints about that jersey.
* Taking the money and running with the Homebush deal. Including the debacle that is the ANZAC Day clash being moved.
- You may not realise this but we aren't as rich as we were thanks to pokie taxes and re-development of your sacred Kogarah oval.
* Blackmailing its own fans by stating that unless they purchase season tickets to Homebush, they'll lose their own seats when (Or should I say 'if') we return to Kogarah.
- STHs always lose their seats if they don't renew. Show me a club where this isn't the case.

So I'll repeat my question for you:
What would you have done differently in his shoes given the circumstances he faced?

 

[Drew-Sta]

I'll answer each point one by one:

* Let David Waite go, allowing one of the most incompetent coached I've ever seen lay claim to the privelage of coaching Saints.
- The deal for Andrew Farrar was IIRC part of the JV agreement.

We don't know this as no-one was ever allowed to see the JV agreement? And this being the case, I'd LOVE to know where this was agreed to.

* Rushed a very, very green coach into first grade in 2003 before he, or for that matter the club, was ready for such a change or inexperience.
- Been said before but what other choices did we have at the time? He'd just won a JF GF and was being chased by Melbourne.

I remember this story. They were courting Bellamy and had Brown in line for assistant coach. Brown should have gone - An apprenticeship like that would have tought him what he needed to know to be a FG coach. Funny that he got promoted over Mick Potter, an accomplished Premier League coach.

Suffice to say that despite peoples opinions of Tim Sheens, he was the coach we should have courted, not Brown. Could you imagine 2005 had Sheens coached us, not the Tigers, with our pack?!

In any case, winning 1 JF GF is by no stretch of the imagination sufficient qualification to coach a FG side.

* Removing ourselves from Kogarah. Twice.
- Don't you realise what a crap venue Kogarah is? I'd prefer the SFS or ANZ anyday. Screw the sentimentality but a ground where half the spectators have to stand on a hill is pathetic and we should be ashamed, not proud, of it.

Now you're starting to sound like one of Dousts henchmen. Your preference of a soulless ground that has no historical meaning or identity to our locality is the type of sh*t I'd expect from a pro-Doust supporter as yourself.

* Allowing the WIN TV corporation to purchase one quarter of our club without consulting the members at any time.
- That's an issue for the Steelers.

It's an issue for my club. Why is it an issue for my club? Because I support Saints. An the fact that a corporation now owns 1/4 of my club without my consultation is an issue for me.

* Allowing MacGregor anywhere near our players for any medical or fitness reason. Period.
- Please explain???

He's a terrible trainer. I thought it was pretty well explained above.

* Signing players such as Quinten Pongia, Nathan Long, Colin Best, Hassan Saleh, Solomon Haumono and Simon Woolford whilst allowing good depth 1st graders such as Matt Bickerstaff, Lincoln Withers, Clint Greenshields, Aaron Gorrell, George N'Daira, Ashton Simms, Luke Bailey (Although he was never going to stay), Michael Henderson, Craig Stapelton and the rest go. Although people will argue hindsight is 20-20, I say that a club focussed on football should have no excuses for letting talent go like we have.
- I don't need to add to this. Others have pointed out your inability to grasp the salary cap concept.

Your lack of understanding as to long term player management shows your inability to understand strategic thinking. Short term singings at th expense of juniors we've invested money in makes neither business nor footballing sense.

* Allowing our Leagues Club to fall into the pitiful financial sink it has become.
- Maybe you should take this up with Danny Robinson and Warren Lockwood.

Robinson takes his orders from the board of the LC. The LC board is also in charge of the FC. The FC is in charge of the JV FC. So the ineptitude of one board has a distinct and significant impact on other two. Besides, Robinson simply fulfils the will of the current board. As much as I dislike him, he too is a victim of the boards inept management.

* Doing abso-f**king-lutely nothing to reform the Illawarra Leagues club so it stops leaking the hundreds of thousands it is currently doing a year.
- That's an issue for the Steelers. Why you think Doust has some godlike control of them is beyond me.

Are you telling me that if one of your business partners that has a 25% financial impact to the business is actually DEPLETING money from your business you wouldn't care? Considering the LC and Doust are constantly forking out cash to keep the Steelers afloat, I'm positive the has a huge say in the running of their club. Money is power, remember.

* Allowing clubs like the Roosters to buy junior clubs in our own backyard.
- What junior clubs have they bought? Where were they? And what business of ours is it to tell junior clubs what to do?

I cannot find the article I read detailing this so I'll retract my statement until I can find it.

* Allowing that disgusting red rag of a jersey onto a footy field bearing the name 'St George'.
- You must really hate the Steelers. I don't and I have no complaints about that jersey.

Steelers supporter yourself? The jersey spoke more of Liverpool than it did about St George or St George Illawarra. Do you have any sense of tradition?

* Taking the money and running with the Homebush deal. Including the debacle that is the ANZAC Day clash being moved.
- You may not realise this but we aren't as rich as we were thanks to pokie taxes and re-development of your sacred Kogarah oval.

A result of a club not adjusting to a changing environment. Businesses don't plan to fail, they fail to plan and in this instance it appears to me that the club has not planned any long term or even short term adjustments to the pokie tax etc to allow them to adapt.

This, by extension, is an exhibit as to the poor and mismanaged situation we are now in.

* Blackmailing its own fans by stating that unless they purchase season tickets to Homebush, they'll lose their own seats when (Or should I say 'if') we return to Kogarah.
- STHs always lose their seats if they don't renew. Show me a club where this isn't the case.

In an instance where we have moved away from our locality for only one year, and not a life time, you've totally overlooked one major point - What if a supporter can't get to Homebush? Does this immediately nullify their seat?

The Club should have allowed fans who can't get to Homebush but can get to Kogarah to retain their seats and yet they decided to blackmail them. How nice of them.

So I'll repeat my question for you:
What would you have done differently in his shoes given the circumstances he faced?

A hell of a lot more, but the hours it would take for me to type it up are better spent doing something more constructive than arguing with you.

I cannot believe some of what you've posted here. It defies belief. See above in red for my additions.

 

[Drew-Sta]

One final point - The upgrades to Kogarah are not costing the club asou think they are using funds donated to them from the State and Federal governments; Money given to them for exactly the purpose of ground upgrades.

 

[Willow]

- The deal for Andrew Farrar was IIRC part of the JV agreement.

Got a copy of that Slackboy? I'd like to see it.

- Don't you realise what a crap venue Kogarah is? I'd prefer the SFS or ANZ anyday. Screw the sentimentality but a ground where half the spectators have to stand on a hill is pathetic and we should be ashamed, not proud, of it.

Your personal dislike for Kogarah hardly addressing the argument. Obviously plenty of people will disagree with you. Plus there's more seating than hill at Kogarah. On both counts, you're venturing away from the facts.

The issue is about assurances and those assurances being broken. The JV agreement was that there would be a 50/50 home ground split. That promise has rarely been met and supporters of Kogarah quite rightly have reason to be frustrated.

* Allowing the WIN TV corporation to purchase one quarter of our club without consulting the members at any time.
- That's an issue for the Steelers.

If it is still a joint venture, then it is a Dragons issue and an issue for Dragons supporters to ponder if they wish.

* Allowing clubs like the Roosters to buy junior clubs in our own backyard.
- What junior clubs have they bought? Where were they? And what business of ours is it to tell junior clubs what to do?

Perhaps this is in reference to the Roosters sponsoring juniors in Berekely?

 

[Southernsaint]

Richo bought "Firepower" on board and a host of other lessor sponsers. He helped secure Virgin blue. Jersey funding is now worth twice what is was.

Theres nothing falsely economic about the massive injection of funds, increased memberships, marquee players, bigger crowds, creation of an international prescence, more of, better and more profitable merchandising etc.

And Souths dont have financial problems or have to worry about grants from a leagues club.

They are doing well.

Yeah, Souths are doing alright, but they were working from rock-bottom to begin with. But I would hardly think that being linked to a sponsor with links to an alleged Kiddy Fiddler and the penerially broke Sydney Kings is a feather in your cap.

It'll take a lot more than a bit of journo bribery, a nothing trial played in some hillbilly town in the US and one appearance in the semis in 18 years to convince me that Souths have really turned the corner.

 

[Wicks]

What one for one examples are you talking about, hmm?

You are a lost cause

You dont have one for one examples where decisions were made between players etc you have marginal reasoning but you still keep players in lists like it has a bigger impact and you dont have anything like salaries or at least a framework where players are assessed that way

What can you prove without any of that At the very least you would need to look at years and see where decisions were made

Even with minimal idea I could go through one by one and say something about each player You barely even tried to do so Its lazy criticism

See if you can dissect even one player like I did with Bickerstaff or Gorrell Some quick help Branighan was tossed big money by the Sharks and went nowhere and everyone knows Waite was the problem with Fitzgibbon

Theres another two for you

If you dont think there are long term plans that can occasionally be affected by the likes of Souths spending money or the Gold Coast returning or Newcastle jumping in with top six money for bench players or the english competition taking players then you are not following this club or this competition

You better be a Newtown supporter ;-)

 

[Drew-Sta]

You are a lost cause

You dont have one for one examples where decisions were made between players etc you have marginal reasoning but you still keep players in lists like it has a bigger impact and you dont have anything like salaries or at least a framework where players are assessed that way

What can you prove without any of that At the very least you would need to look at years and see where decisions were made

Even with minimal idea I could go through one by one and say something about each player You barely even tried to do so Its lazy criticism

See if you can dissect even one player like I did with Bickerstaff or Gorrell Some quick help Branighan was tossed big money by the Sharks and went nowhere and everyone knows Waite was the problem with Fitzgibbon

Theres another two for you

If you dont think there are long term plans that can occasionally be affected by the likes of Souths spending money or the Gold Coast returning or Newcastle jumping in with top six money for bench players or the english competition taking players then you are not following this club or this competition

You better be a Newtown supporter ;-)

You misconstrued my question. What one for one examples?! What the hell is a one for one? Where one player is traded for another?! Clarify your question (Preferably with punctuation!!) and I'll answer it with ease.

Secondly, my assesment of players is quite solid. Such as the fact that Creagh played almost a props position last year due to the fact that none of our other frontrowers (Exception of Ryles) made yards. The fact we lacked the defensive lock skills of Young as we were often found with holes he would cover.

I have no issue taking in variable factors such as the GC and Newcastle. My issue is our player MANAGEMENT, i.e. We don't plan future squads based around the junior base and current players we have. We buy stop gap measures. Woolford was bought with the intention to groom Ellis, Caine and perhaps Chase. We bought Holdsworth with the intention of grooming him for Barrett's departure, except Holdsworth left when he wasn't given a chance. We bought Firman to cover our H/B spot, then let Dean Byrne go. We let Firman go when head came through. We let Head yet had no specialist H/B. We let Bailey go insisting Simms would move into place, yet he still stayed in the second row, then we let him go too! We let Bickerstaff go, with the intention of letting Houston and Simms star in the second row, yet they all left and now we're wanting for Young. We persisted for f**king yonks with a muppet like Payne, insisting he was a better option than Bickerstaff, yet we've even let him go. We bought Ennis with the intention of grooming a young hooker, yet let him go.

Where is our plan? Why aren't we thinking forward? Why are we constantly letting these players go? Why are we not trying to build a squad?

You seem to think my desire to question is simply a mischeif making exercise. It's not. It's a desire to see my Saints win a GF. I'm sick of the excuses, I'm sick of the poor management - If people don't question, we'll be stuck with the status quo and in 10 years time we'll be another Cronulla.

I'd sooner slit my wrists than see that happen.

 

[Godz Illa]

I think Wicks is closer to the mark on this one Drew. Questions like “why aren’t we thinking forward” and “why are we constantly letting these players go” are answered with names like Stanley, Nightingale, Hunt, Setu and before them Morris, Creagh, Young, and Gasnier, Cooper, Ryles. Bickerstaff was great (salary cap) value for us at his price in 2006, but when that price went up the prospective return on investment fell – the choice to not match his big Canberra offer possibly vindicated by his chronic injury problems and subsequent retirement in 2007. Circumstances change, a player’s perceived and real value changes. Holdsworth, at one point the longed-for heir apparent to Barrett, spent half the 2007 season in premier league attempting to develop his two-dimensional game past kicking and/or passing.

The squad’s progression and management is there, and most of us do believe the squad put together for 2008 has the potential to succeed. The stop-gap measures you cry foul over are not unique to Saints – all clubs need them, and not all have the same success rate as us, even the seemingly infallible Melbourne Storm sign duds like Matt Rua sometimes.

These arguments tend to run for pages and pages because they contain the juicy jackpot of elements – subjectivity, emotion, and the absence of explicit access to hard facts (re: player contracts, negotiations etc). I predict 3 more pages before season kickoff

 

[Drew-Sta]

I'm happy to accept opinions are opinions. I've expressed mine and I'll leave it at that.

 

[juanfarkall]

I would suggest that most of us are unsure of what targets the Club has set for each year and what result is considered a success.
As supporters we want to win and compete as best we possibly can, the problem is that it would appear that some of the decisions made by the club over the past ten years have been poor and perhaps in line with a target of being competitive and "making the eight is good enough".
In addition it appears that our organisation is not being overly progressive and is content with being in a "rebuilding phase".
It is not too long ago that we were a leading club whereas now it might just be difficult to argue that we are much more than a middle of the field club at best.
The words and actions of our leading lights in recent times with "shrugs", "Crownies" and "dunno mates" do little to suggest that our club is pursuing excellence in the way that we desire with anything more than lip service.

These issues are probably the catalyst (along with the dreadful treatment of the Kogarah upgrade) for the disquiet amongst our followers.

 

[Dave Q]

C'mon Dave Q, the mixos are slowly transitioning from being "the embarrassment of the league" which they've been for the last twenty years, into becomming mildly relevant. Unfortunately they'll miss the eight this year after a admirable effort in making eighth spot last season.

No doubt it's a challenge for all clubs to find alternate revenue streams, and I am sure they are all looking into becoming less reliant on leagues club funds (those that even had a viable leagues club to start with), but with consumer confidence still high, full employment and the market still not showing signs of slowing down there will be additional sponsorships out there. I hear the mixos might even get a three way sponsorship, they better hope they get somehting after the dodgy fuel pill company punted them. Mabye they could seek a sponsorship from Brocky's (god rest his soul) Polariser
device?????

However on the International presence ROTFLAO!!!!!! So the phone chucker throws out a few souths hats to some of his hollywood mates, wow wee!! I notice how regularly they attend matches and the recent "event" in the States what a waste of time and tax payers money, guarantee you go back to Florida in two months time and they'll say South who???? please......................................

Wobby Wobby Wobby....

You made lots of wrong and innaccurate comments but I wont bore you with an ad for Souths, except to say we gave you a lesson at WIN last year and we have a stronger side this year.

If you think your club is travelling well Wobby thats are matter for you but I think you fast becoming a minority.

Other clubs dont have to rely upon a leagues club that is getting seriously rodgered thanks to the NSW State government whereas it seems you guys do. I guess its all done and dusted that policy so its damage control time.

You can forget any thoughts of returning to Kogarah for the indefinite future for a start.

When funds become short, you may also have to cut playing strength, kiss your depth good bye.

And when the team has a run of poor seasons, you may not find a Phac and Rusty to bail you out. People of their wealth, calibre and love for the game are thin on the ground.

Your management looks tired and old-fashioned. It got you into this mess and I wouldnt bet that it can get you out of it.

Brown will be the scapegoat but he didnt have too much depth last year and a few injuries to key men this year and you guys will be cactus again. He will feel badly done-by.

You forget just how close you were to the spoon. Been there done that. You dont want it.

 

[Red Bear]

as far as the steelers club tho - alsmot f**k all you can do about it IMO. People just dont go there, and why would they? Older folk already had their clubs when illawarra were introduced to the compeition(the massive clubs like Wests, Dapto, Collies) and young people frequent the pubs like north gong and cooneys (and the sh*tstain that is glasshouse).

 

[Wobbygong]

Dave Q,

Just throwing out some burley for you, you obviously needed a feed. Look I've always felt sorry for Souths and their supporters, so its good to see them on the improve. I totally agree with you that clubs who relied heavily on their leagues clubs like Saints will find it increasingly hard to source alternate funding.

Seriously though the US thing was a pathetic wank of an exercise, nothing you could say would change my mind on that.

 

[Southernsaint]

Wobby Wobby Wobby....

You made lots of wrong and innaccurate comments but I wont bore you with an ad for Souths, except to say we gave you a lesson at WIN last year and we have a stronger side this year.

If you think your club is travelling well Wobby thats are matter for you but I think you fast becoming a minority.

Other clubs dont have to rely upon a leagues club that is getting seriously rodgered thanks to the NSW State government whereas it seems you guys do. I guess its all done and dusted that policy so its damage control time.

You can forget any thoughts of returning to Kogarah for the indefinite future for a start.

When funds become short, you may also have to cut playing strength, kiss your depth good bye.

And when the team has a run of poor seasons, you may not find a Phac and Rusty to bail you out. People of their wealth, calibre and love for the game are thin on the ground.

Your management looks tired and old-fashioned. It got you into this mess and I wouldnt bet that it can get you out of it.

Brown will be the scapegoat but he didnt have too much depth last year and a few injuries to key men this year and you guys will be cactus again. He will feel badly done-by.

You forget just how close you were to the spoon. Been there done that. You dont want it.

Dave, the Crowe a Court era has been upon us for about 5 minutes and it's meant to totally over-ride the last 40 or so years of mis-management?? If you want to believe that, good luck to you...

Holmes a Court is a good businessman but if you think he's got a real "love of the game" then you're not as bright as I gave you credit for. He himself admits in South Side Story that his family are Jaapies from WA and he wasn't previously a fan until Crowe hit him up.

Anyway, I have heard that that Alcho musical director from the Midday Show and Brian Brown are currently formulating a rescue package to privatise Saints as we speak.

 

[Wicks]

You misconstrued my question. What one for one examples?! What the hell is a one for one? Where one player is traded for another?! Clarify your question (Preferably with punctuation!!) and I'll answer it with ease.

Well how about Kite had to go because we couldnt keep both he and Ryles in a situation where Kite was worth twenty thousand in 2002 and towards four hundred thousand in 2004

I indicate one for one decisions because at least you can make approximations It is much harder to draw out what happens when you list scores of players that have no direct relationship in the decision process

Then of course the market throws up a four year contract for Bailey How would you deal with that

If you look at planning from 2005 our best five out and out props would probably have been listed as Ryles Bailey Poore Henderson and Hunt We have three of those

Secondly, my assesment of players is quite solid. Such as the fact that Creagh played almost a props position last year due to the fact that none of our other frontrowers (Exception of Ryles) made yards. The fact we lacked the defensive lock skills of Young as we were often found with holes he would cover.

Maybe in general with first grade players you have seen over and over again but not in terms of contracts and other decisions made

I have no issue taking in variable factors such as the GC and Newcastle. My issue is our player MANAGEMENT, i.e. We don't plan future squads based around the junior base and current players we have. We buy stop gap measures.

This highlights the previous point We certainly plan future squads based on the junior base and the best of the current players we have but this is al mitigated by the salary cap and the market

It ignores the need for short term action and opportunism as well as long term planning You confuse players that would only ever be one or two year players with player that mattered to our success

Woolford was bought with the intention to groom Ellis, Caine and perhaps Chase.

Caine is the only player you could even suggest was bought prior to Woolford or with that intention and I wouldnt say that for sure Chase was bought out from the Tigers in the offseason Ellis was bought right at the end of the year based on his season for Norths and the need for depth after the serious injury with Caine

This looks a lot like the previous halfback situation you are about to cover except long term hookers are even more difficult to find Most teams that are successful make their own or source them from an early age We will have to see what comes out of the under 20s

We bought Holdsworth with the intention of grooming him for Barrett's departure, except Holdsworth left when he wasn't given a chance.

We signed Holdsworth as an under 20s player from Windsor and made him into an ok player but there was never any intention that he would take over from Barrett You seem to be quoting Holdsworths dream rather than the club He would be fourth in line at the club now

We bought Firman to cover our H/B spot, then let Dean Byrne go. We let Firman go when head came through. We let Head yet had no specialist H/B.

Byrne needed a new start considering his injury problems which unfortunately continued Firman decided not to believe us when we said his best chance was to stay as a hooker He wanted to be a halfback and is now nowhere Head was expected to be the halfback if he got his training right but he never did and that affected his rehab

Try and try again there were no solutions in that lot Half and hooker have been difficult positions but they are for many teams We should do better

We let Bailey go insisting Simms would move into place, yet he still stayed in the second row, then we let him go too!

I dont remember anyone insisting Sims would move into Baileys place Even Brisbane are playing Sims with two other props Sims would have replaced Ryles if he was going to move solely into prop

We let Bickerstaff go, with the intention of letting Houston and Simms star in the second row, yet they all left and now we're wanting for Young.

Bickerstaff had nothing to do with the other players It was only his good form that had him starting so many games We made an offer to Bickerstaff allowign for all the possible risk and return He had a salary slot available to him and Canberra offered a lot more money to him

Houston would not have even played off the bench in a full team and was then offered double what we could offer We decided Sims needed a new start and we are gambling his knee continues to fall apart They are both in between forwards and very different from Bickerstaff

We could have a good season without Young with Setu Stanley Saffy Webb Prior behind Scott Creagh and Reynoldson but he is a good player and we want him to play

We persisted for f**king yonks with a muppet like Payne, insisting he was a better option than Bickerstaff, yet we've even let him go.

Payne was under contract and therefore nothing to do with Bickerstaff No one is insisting but you Payne was a talented dogs junior and was a good player for us in 2005 His confidence was way down and welfare wise I think we needed to give him another go

We bought Ennis with the intention of grooming a young hooker, yet let him go.

I dont think anyone could predict how poorly he would fit off the field Maybe more research needed

Where is our plan? Why aren't we thinking forward? Why are we constantly letting these players go? Why are we not trying to build a squad?

Just because you cant see it doesnt means it is not there Your estimation of players their situations and their value is very poor
We are and its a continuous process
Salary cap due to large offers from elsewhere injury concerns and sometimes they are much poorer player than you think and it works out that way
We are and its a continuous process

Your frustration doesnt meet the reality because you just dont know what is going on You want to be stubborn about it while keeping your head in the clouds :whistle

 

[Dave Q]

Dave Q,

Just throwing out some burley for you, you obviously needed a feed. Look I've always felt sorry for Souths and their supporters, so its good to see them on the improve. I totally agree with you that clubs who relied heavily on their leagues clubs like Saints will find it increasingly hard to source alternate funding.

Seriously though the US thing was a pathetic wank of an exercise, nothing you could say would change my mind on that.

Thank you Wobby, you should know my SGI policy and that is that is a joint venture and the Illawarra is a region with a massive future.

The trip to the US was about a lot of things, including offering the players a genuine unique experience. Now as you know, the salary cap operates to share the wealth and players who are offerred reasonably similar deals from two or more clubs will consider other factors. A trip to the US to play in an exhibition match is quite an adventure and all the Souths boys ( except myabe Frog) had a good time. So it was a positive in terms of retention and recruitment.

Secondly, its just the first visit of many others to come. It was never meant to conquer the US. It was to give the game some exposure ( a tiny toe-hold) in a massive market.

Thousands of americans attended and showed an interest in the game. Thats a good thing for league generally.

Thirdly, it was a good pre-season hit out of sorts.

The boys did charity work with deaf and blind kids and promoted Australia and NZ. If people thought kindly of them, a bit of that reflects well on us here at home.

Anyway that hasnt changed your mind ( thats hard to achieve on a subjective basis) but those are my views on that issue.

Souths are trying to steer away from the traditional sources of revenue as they believe that the returns there are diminishing.

I have met people who have set up companys in a few years and done extremely well. I also know someone who has lost three properties this year in bad business decisions.

Thats why I place an emphasis on knowedge and skills.

All commercial matters contain some degree of risk though.

 

[Dave Q]

Dave, the Crowe a Court era has been upon us for about 5 minutes and it's meant to totally over-ride the last 40 or so years of mis-management?? If you want to believe that, good luck to you...

Holmes a Court is a good businessman but if you think he's got a real "love of the game" then you're not as bright as I gave you credit for. He himself admits in South Side Story that his family are Jaapies from WA and he wasn't previously a fan until Crowe hit him up.

Anyway, I have heard that that Alcho musical director from the Midday Show and Brian Brown are currently formulating a rescue package to privatise Saints as we speak.

Ive seen you post unkind things about Souths Mr SouthernSaint so I didnt expect you to change your view.

The successes and progress in the last two years have made the club somewhat unrecognisable and as a Souths fan its been hard to keep up with everything happening these days.

It hasnt been 40 years of mismanagement either. Souths have been to the finals, won mid week and pre-season cups, boasted international and state players in that period.

Phac is very dedicated to the Souths cause. I have listened to him and read what he has had to say and he is committed. Hes put his cash where his mouth is.

Now he is our CEO.People like Phac are hard to attract so we are very lucky indeed.

Not that i will convince you either. I am sorry you seem to have a grudge against Souths as it seems to detract from your usual worldliness.

Saints are in a bit of a crisis. Thats the focus here. Im interested in what r2k know about financial management. Its a big business to manage.

 

[Southernsaint]

Ive seen you post unkind things about Souths Mr SouthernSaint so I didnt expect you to change your view.

The successes and progress in the last two years have made the club somewhat unrecognisable and as a Souths fan its been hard to keep up with everything happening these days.

It hasnt been 40 years of mismanagement either. Souths have been to the finals, won mid week and pre-season cups, boasted international and state players in that period.

Phac is very dedicated to the Souths cause. I have listened to him and read what he has had to say and he is committed. Hes put his cash where his mouth is.

Now he is our CEO.People like Phac are hard to attract so we are very lucky indeed.

Not that i will convince you either. I am sorry you seem to have a grudge against Souths as it seems to detract from your usual worldliness.

Saints are in a bit of a crisis. Thats the focus here. Im interested in what r2k know about financial management. Its a big business to manage.

Dave, I come from a family of Souths members so I see the literature they get, etc. I just get the impression that the Crowe a Court era has been more about style than substance since they took over. If football AKA soccer cannot get a foot-hold in the US after countless trips by big European clubs and staging a World Cup, then I don’t really see how a one-off match between two mediocre teams in a backwater town in Florida is going to alter the sporting landscape. But if it make you lot feel happy, then good on you…

As for the mis-management of Souths – they couldn’t pay their players in the 70’s or 80’s, couldn’t keep their replacement players off the field or off the Charlie in the 90’s and couldn’t keep them from putting their faeces on hotel walls or in each others shoes in the 00’s. Not the best track record, and even worse for a team with as little on-field success as Souths have had in recent and not-so-recent years…

R2K are having an information evening at the Kogarah Inn shortly, so maybe you’d like to come and discuss the issue there?!

 

[Dave Q]

Dave, I come from a family of Souths members so I see the literature they get, etc. I just get the impression that the Crowe a Court era has been more about style than substance since they took over. If football AKA soccer cannot get a foot-hold in the US after countless trips by big European clubs and staging a World Cup, then I don’t really see how a one-off match between two mediocre teams in a backwater town in Florida is going to alter the sporting landscape. But if it make you lot feel happy, then good on you…

As for the mis-management of Souths – they couldn’t pay their players in the 70’s or 80’s, couldn’t keep their replacement players off the field or off the Charlie in the 90’s and couldn’t keep them from putting their faeces on hotel walls or in each others shoes in the 00’s. Not the best track record, and even worse for a team with as little on-field success as Souths have had in recent and not-so-recent years…

R2K are having an information evening at the Kogarah Inn shortly, so maybe you’d like to come and discuss the issue there?!

Thats a pretty dark and glib view of the rabbitohs SothernSaint, we played a lot of good footy amongst all of that and having spoken to some players over the years, staff and other fans and management, your points seem to be a somewhat selective account.

Its your view, you are entitled to it but I'll be straight with you, I dont share it.

The US promotion was never meant to take over the world. Why people think it was suppsoed to ...well that always surprises me!

Now as for r2K I will keep an open mind. They seem very committed.

 

[Southernsaint]

Thats a pretty dark and glib view of the rabbitohs SothernSaint, we played a lot of good footy amongst all of that and having spoken to some players over the years, staff and other fans and management, your points seem to be a somewhat selective account.

Its your view, you are entitled to it but I'll be straight with you, I dont share it.

The US promotion was never meant to take over the world. Why people think it was suppsoed to ...well that always surprises me!

Now as for r2K I will keep an open mind. They seem very committed.

Dave, if it wasn’t that grim then the club would’ve been worth more than $3 million when sold.

If you want to hear people talk about how Souths are revolutionising the US sporting world, just head over to the NRL forum and have a read at the dribble some of your fans are banging on with!!

R2K have just announced their first candidate for the Leagues Club board – interesting days ahead…