Scotland boss resigns

[Stallion]

Sport Scotland do fund RL. But not much. Why? I guess they're outcome focussed.

Just wondering if their is an anomalie with this 'funding' you inform.of? Given that rugby league is deemed not a recognised sport would that necessarily negatively impact a whole range of things for rugby league such as government funding, presence in schools, insurance eligibility and its overall credibility? Just a thought given rugby league's non recognition as a sport.

 

[deluded pom?]

That's not really true. Most players in the best Scotland national teams of the past played their club football in Scotland. In fact there was a long time when England based Scots, including Alan Hansen in the all conquering Liverpool team, were overlooked for Scots who stayed in Scotland. Therefore the makeup of the English top league hasn't had a significant bearing on changing Scottish fortunes.

What has killed Scotland is the decline in street football where most of the great players of the past developed their skills. Well documented that parks have made way for shopping malls or housing. Throw in the technological age we are living in people are less active - this issue of a lack of playing numbers is more pronounced in Scotland than England due to the lower populous.

Top talent from around the world joining the EPL can only help domestic players as the standard of play is raised. The direct long ball English style is long dead. England have had the talent (Gerrard, Beckham, Scholes, Lampard as good a midfield quartet around), what we don't have is any decent domestic coach to get the best out of them, also there is a lack of unity within the England team due to the club rivalry, something players have spoken about. Fans of England are not united either - good luck trying to get a Manc cheering for a Scouser. Very tribal among both fans and players. The England U17 and U20 youth teams won their World Cups in 2017 so there is a conveyor belt of talent, it's having a set up at senior level that can get the best out of them and create a team unity that will be the big issue.

A conveyor belt of talent LOL. Ninety percent of the age group teams that won their respective WCs will end up in the Championship or lower. Chelsea have about seventy players a season out on loan, usually to a lower league club. They just stockpile kids hoping one might make the grade and wasting years of the ones who don’t. You’d expect the U20s WC team to be getting some regular game time by now if they were so good. We couldn’t even beat a country with a population similar to Hull. Wayne was banking more pound coins a week than there are Icelandic people

 

[deal.with.it]

Just wondering if their is an anomalie with this 'funding' you inform.of? Given that rugby league is deemed not a recognised sport would that necessarily negatively impact a whole range of things for rugby league such as government funding, presence in schools, insurance eligibility and its overall credibility? Just a thought given rugby league's non recognition as a sport.

Well RL is a recognised sport in Scotland, so no.

The issue is needing people of influence or skill to volunteer their time to attract sponsorship and grants so the NGB can hire development officers. It's not rocket science. It's the same reason in bush footy you have some clubs paying good $ to attract players while others struggle to field a team.

 

[Stallion]

Well RL is a recognised sport in Scotland, so no.

The issue is needing people of influence or skill to volunteer their time to attract sponsorship and grants so the NGB can hire development officers. It's not rocket science. It's the same reason in bush footy you have some clubs paying good $ to attract players while others struggle to field a team.

So its a lack of business savvy administrators that are their for the development/growth of the code. Seems like something the NRL is in need of as well! And yes I'm privy to a local district clubs operations and their is some ok things In place but massive improvements can be achieved with proactive thinking. But its not an easy to find trait.

 

[DC80]

So the various private schools of the world can keep propagating rugby union and not rugbyleague. Your idea of "even playing field for all sport "is pathetic. You are not the sort of guy I would employ for the development of rugby league. Seeking equity is not the wrong thing to do. That is what rugby league deserves. Yes I emphasize rugby league as it is not getting a fair go in most places in my opinion and others agree. Im just stating it. As you conveniently decide to conjure up a misconstrued argument basically stating that nothing untoward against rugby-league is happening. Absolutely ignorant and no empathy for such a great sport. Give yourself an upper cut!

But RU is a private school game. Played largely by middle/upper class people, it's part of their culture. You seem to be overlooking this cultural tie. It's part of who they are, just as RL is a working class Northern game popular in coal mining towns. You can't detach sport and culture. Do private schools favour RU? Of course they do, because it's embedded in their cultural identity, just as Irish schools favour Gaelic football.

Private schools also make up a tiny percentage of schools, what about the public/state schools? Huge swathes of England are working class, yet you constantly target a small demographic group.

RL has largely been rooted in northern English towns because that's where the cultural ties are. The hub of coal mining towns, and in those towns one generation passes on their interest to the next one. RU doesn't get a sniff in these towns because there isn't any cultural link to it.


Both sports are niche, and as I said collision based sports have always had much lower participation levels. The two main RL playing nations are England and Australia;

Ranked the 27th most popular participation sport in England, there are 44 thousand RL players aged 16 and over.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

In Australia, Aussie Rules is the 12th most popular participation sport, and the highest ranked collision sport. RL is 15th. RU isn't in the top 20.

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6...hildren-and-adults-december-2014-201503182151

A 2016 study has RL as the 9th most popular club sport in Aus with 247 thousand participants. RU doesn't appear at all in the list.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2016/12/08/most-popular-sport-in-australia/

Collision based sports have always been niche outside their cultural heartland. RU, RL, Aussie Rules, American football, Gaelic football etc etc. What you want for RL - becoming massive - is not realistic. For all its middle class wealth RU has barely any presence outside of England and its British commonwealth outposts. 97% of the 33 million audience for the 2011 RUWC final came from the British isles, Australia, NZ, South Africa and France.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10761073

 

[Stallion]

But RU is a private school game. Played largely by middle/upper class people, it's part of their culture. You seem to be overlooking this cultural tie. It's part of who they are, just as RL is a working class Northern game popular in coal mining towns. You can't detach sport and culture. Do private schools favour RU? Of course they do, because it's embedded in their cultural identity, just as Irish schools favour Gaelic football.

Private schools also make up a tiny percentage of schools, what about the public/state schools? Huge swathes of England are working class, yet you constantly target a small demographic group.

RL has largely been rooted in northern English towns because that's where the cultural ties are. The hub of coal mining towns, and in those towns one generation passes on their interest to the next one. RU doesn't get a sniff in these towns because there isn't any cultural link to it.


Both sports are niche, and as I said collision based sports have always had much lower participation levels. The two main RL playing nations are England and Australia;

Ranked the 27th most popular participation sport in England, there are 44 thousand RL players aged 16 and over.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

In Australia, Aussie Rules is the 12th most popular participation sport, and the highest ranked collision sport. RL is 15th. RU isn't in the top 20.

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6...hildren-and-adults-december-2014-201503182151

A 2016 study has RL as the 9th most popular club sport in Aus with 247 thousand participants. RU doesn't appear at all in the list.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10761073

Collision based sports have always been niche outside their cultural heartland. What you want for RL - becoming massive - is not realistic. For all its middle class wealth RU has barely any presence outside of England and its British commonwealth outposts. 97% of the 33 million audience for the 2011 RUWC final came from the British isles, Australia, NZ, South Africa and France.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10761073

But RU has its origins and basic support from the middle class to upper classes however has decided to follow the lead of other codes like rugby league and make a buck out of the masses. Unfortunately RU knows its a redundant form of rugby but out of shear bigotry and greed has done its utmost to stop/limit the superior rugby form in RL and still coerce an unsuspecting general public not aware of the dirty tricks that the code has used to limit/stop rugby league. You sell the sport of rugby league very short and disrespecfully so. It's a code that does appeal to all demographics. Your stance is that it doesnt. We differ! That's my take on it champ.
You can peddle your bigotry elsewhere and certainly not with me. If my observation is right where does that put you in the scheme of things!? Probably worse than a bigot : a deceitful traitor to the code of rugby league. I get the feeling that wouldn't concern you! Please refer to attachment from a New Zealand journalist whom follows both rugby codes named Malcolm Dreaneen. He mentions many instances unknown to the general public affecting rugby league internationally and particularly in South Africa. Just one article. Their are more but let's see if you might have some empathy for rugby league or continue on your deceiving way?

 

[DC80]

A conveyor belt of talent LOL. Ninety percent of the age group teams that won their respective WCs will end up in the Championship or lower. Chelsea have about seventy players a season out on loan, usually to a lower league club. They just stockpile kids hoping one might make the grade and wasting years of the ones who don’t. You’d expect the U20s WC team to be getting some regular game time by now if they were so good. We couldn’t even beat a country with a population similar to Hull. Wayne was banking more pound coins a week than there are Icelandic people

That some can't break into the top teams is due to the rise in standard of the Premier League via the influx of the best players from around the world. The era of English long ball football where the ball is hoofed up to the lanky target man is long over, an era when a bang average player could ply their trade in the top league. This is progress. English youth players are now better than ever which resulted in the two historic youth World Cup wins.

As I mentioned, England haven't had a decent national coach in decades. Roy Hodgson is a relegation fighting manager, the Iceland performance was befitting of a man of his standard. Harry Kane is probably the best striker on the planet right now, put him in a team with no cohesion and one managed by a third rate coach you won't get the best out of him, as has frequently happened with other top English players.

 

[DC80]

But RU has its origins and basic support from the middle class to upper classes however has decided to follow the lead of other codes like rugby league and make a buck out of the masses. Unfortunately RU knows its a redundant form of rugby but out of shear bigotry and greed has done its utmost to stop/limit the superior rugby form in RL and still coerce an unsuspecting general public not aware of the dirty tricks that the code has used to limit/stop rugby league. You sell the sport of rugby league very short and disrespecfully so. It's a code that does appeal to all demographics. Your stance is that it doesnt. We differ! That's my take on it champ.
You can peddle your bigotry elsewhere and certainly not with me. If my observation is right where does that put you in the scheme of things!? Probably worse than a bigot : a decetful traitor to the code of rugby league. I get the feeling that wouldn't concern you!

Good rant but you have veered off topic. Have you anything to say about my comment though?

But RU is a private school game. Played largely by middle/upper class people, it's part of their culture. You seem to be overlooking this cultural tie. It's part of who they are, just as RL is a working class Northern game popular in coal mining towns. You can't detach sport and culture. Do private schools favour RU? Of course they do, because it's embedded in their cultural identity, just as Irish schools favour Gaelic football.

Private schools also make up a tiny percentage of schools, what about the public/state schools? Huge swathes of England are working class, yet you constantly target a small demographic group.

RL has largely been rooted in northern English towns because that's where the cultural ties are. The hub of coal mining towns, and in those towns one generation passes on their interest to the next one. RU doesn't get a sniff in these towns because there isn't any cultural link to it.


Both sports are niche, and as I said collision based sports have always had much lower participation levels. The two main RL playing nations are England and Australia;

Ranked the 27th most popular participation sport in England, there are 44 thousand RL players aged 16 and over.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

In Australia, Aussie Rules is the 12th most popular participation sport, and the highest ranked collision sport. RL is 15th. RU isn't in the top 20.

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6...hildren-and-adults-december-2014-201503182151

A 2016 study has RL as the 9th most popular club sport in Aus with 247 thousand participants. RU doesn't appear at all in the list.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2016/12/08/most-popular-sport-in-australia/

Collision based sports have always been niche outside their cultural heartland. RU, RL, Aussie Rules, American football, Gaelic football etc etc. What you want for RL - becoming massive - is not realistic. For all its middle class wealth RU has barely any presence outside of England and its British commonwealth outposts. 97% of the 33 million audience for the 2011 RUWC final came from the British isles, Australia, NZ, South Africa and France.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10761073

Niche sports, both of them, like all collision based sports.

 

[deluded pom?]

That some can't break into the top teams is due to the rise in standard of the Premier League via the influx of the best players from around the world. The era of English long ball football where the ball is hoofed up to the lanky target man is long over, an era when a bang average player could ply their trade in the top league. This is progress. English youth players are now better than ever which resulted in the two historic youth World Cup wins.

As I mentioned, England haven't had a decent national coach in decades. Roy Hodgson is a relegation fighting manager, the Iceland performance was befitting of a man of his standard. Harry Kane is probably the best striker on the planet right now, put him in a team with no cohesion and one managed by a third rate coach you won't get the best out of him, as has frequently happened with other top English players.

These are supposedly highly paid professionals at the top of their game. They don’t need coaching. If they need motivation they shouldn’t even be in the team. The problem is we haven’t won a trophy for over sixty years and haven’t been in a semi since 1990. Since the EPL came about all we do is beat the donkey teams in the qualifiers and then struggle to get out of the group stage. If we manage to get past the group stage it’s out at the QF. The EPL has done wonders for the players’ and their agents’ bank balances but little for the England team. Owners of EPL teams are invariably foreigners who don’t give a hoot for the England team and why would they?

 

[Pommy]

? "Hasn't held the game back in England " Rugby league has been forever trying to expand from its northern English area and has had little success! I'd suggest that not having such elite private school presence has a detrimental effect that flows on to the detriment of rugby league expanding to other areas of England. The elite private school set up fosters well connected and affluent support through funding and necessarily positive media exposure. It makes a big difference for a code like rugby league that deserves genuine expansion.

Perhaps but it is still in the top two league markets in the world which is what I meant.
The lack of elite schools will have had an effect but a problem you ignore is that the traditional fans don’t want expansion out of the heartlands and oppose it at every instance.
I know you don’t like to accept league is it’s own worst enemy but it’s a true story.

Dont think you get it! I would be pissed off if I had my kid going to a private school and paying the exhorbitant fees and knowing that no option to play a code of choice existed in that school. It's a simple decision from the school. Give the sport (meaning rugby league in this case) a go! It may improve the noted poor tackling abilities of union players at that particular school. Who knows!? But it would surely reflect a more inclusive sports curriculum from that school. After all rugby league is regarded as a major code in these parts of the world? Unfortunately it's still has lepper like status in such schools with other codes getting the free kick instead. If you don't this is unfair or even odd we absolutely dissagree.

Well as a parent you would be a customer and you could chose to not send your child to that school on that basis. It’s not like they hide the fact they don’t play league.

Lol!Head in sand stuff from you! So you don't see rugby league as a sport!? Because that is what this ridiculous organization's stance is? Perhaps table top dancing and foot golf have rugby league's measure!? Amazing!
With respect to the Australian example I think this bigotry against the code is not isolated. So Scotland would necessarily harness such a poor regard as informed for this underachieving football code of rugby league.
Another quick digression : Last night I met and chatted with a young educated Irish lady on a work visa in my town of Newcastle. I asked her if she liked rugby league. She said "I love it!" I mentioned some instances of where the sport had been banned and not deemed eligible for government funding in places like France and South Africa. I also infomed of the two Aussies that wanted to play amateur rugby league after playing the rugby union season in Ireland and the Irish RU official telling these men "You can play any other sport except for rugby league ". The Irish lady was visibly taken aback by this information and remarked "I had no idea this sort of thing was going on? It's terrible!" I concluded the conversation with "At least you know now what's been going on behind the scenes and why rugby league doesn't seem so big elsewhere around the world. "

So you demand recognition from a body but don’t seem to have any care for the process they use to determine if a sport is eligable.
Can you point out to me that rugby league has met their criteria? My understanding is that the sport hasn’t.
The fact ‘table top dancing’ (I think you mean pole fitness) has done so just shows how bad our administration is.

 

[DC80]

These are supposedly highly paid professionals at the top of their game. They don’t need coaching. If they need motivation they shouldn’t even be in the team. The problem is we haven’t won a trophy for over sixty years and haven’t been in a semi since 1990. Since the EPL came about all we do is beat the donkey teams in the qualifiers and then struggle to get out of the group stage. If we manage to get past the group stage it’s out at the QF. The EPL has done wonders for the players’ and their agents’ bank balances but little for the England team. Owners of EPL teams are invariably foreigners who don’t give a hoot for the England team and why would they?

So basically coaches are irrelevant then. Why did England hire Wayne Bennett? Name a serial loser in Super League, that's who the England football team appointed with Hodgson.

It's not just tactics, in fact I believe, at international level in football, the main thing a coach needs to bring is team cohesion. A club type feel, united. England haven't been united in decades. Players from the 'golden generation' have openly stated this, and its not helped by the fans. You won't get Arsenal fans cheering Cashly Cole, you won't get Mancs - or Everton fans - cheering Gerrard, you won't get Scousers cheering Gary Neville, or John Terry - who most of the country despises. The club game in England is so tribal - the regions themselves are tribal - that it's hard to create a unity when the players come together for the national team. When Bobby Moore lifted the World Cup for England the rivalry in the club game was nowhere near as tribal as it is now. Football is the only sport in England where the national team is hampered by its tribalism at club level. For me the one manager that could have created a united team is Harry Redknapp.

Lol. You sell RL way short of its potential. RU administrators are aware of its potential and their behind the scenes posturing lead to the limiting/controlling of the far superior and inclusive code of rugby league.

Where is RU stopping growth? Posh areas, leafy Surrey, won't give two hoots about Rugby league. Its not part of their culture. Again, sport and culture cannot be split. Sport is culture. These areas have RU embedded into their culture, just as RL is embedded in the culture of former mining towns in the north of England.

Again you focus on this tiny demographic. What about the rest of the country? The 80% plus where neither code has any significant presence.

Living in England I barely come across either code - bar when I attend RL games in St Helens. Both codes are niche sports, entrenched in their own cultural heartlands. Outside England RU got a massive head start over RL in outposts of the British commonwealth as it is older and was established in private schools.

 

[Pommy]

Please read for information that may enlighten you.

We all understand rugby league has issues in South Africa but this is about fecking Scotland.

 

[langpark]

Every obstacle they face in Scotland, I guarantee you they are facing the same ones (TENFOLD) in continental Europe. That hasn't stopped the likes of Serbia, Czech Republic and Ukraine digging in and successfully developing the game in their countries.

 

[playdaball]

Is Scottish RL in a better position from when the coach started vs. now?

 

[LeagueXIII]

Every obstacle they face in Scotland, I guarantee you they are facing the same ones (TENFOLD) in continental Europe. That hasn't stopped the likes of Serbia, Czech Republic and Ukraine digging in and successfully developing the game in their countries.

Rugby Union is nowhere as powerful in those countries, so they have less obstacles to overcome.

 

[RL The greatest game]

Basically the Scottish team are made of players who are either not good enough for Australia or England or just waiting to be called up by Australia or England

 

[Stallion]

Rugby Union is nowhere as powerful in those countries, so they have less obstacles to overcome.

And makes sense!

 

[Pommy]

Rugby Union is nowhere as powerful in those countries, so they have less obstacles to overcome.

Rugby union isn’t powerful in Scotland though, why blame another code when league have done nothing to help themselves.

To say those countries have less obstacles is total fantasy. Scotland RL need to only get a single team together these other nations need an entire league. These nations probably don’t have RL being broadcast in to every pay per view house, in fact there’s now free to air rugby league in Scotland.
To say there’s less obstacles is totally laughable.

 

[Pommy]

Attach anything pertaining to Scotland please.

 

[DC80]

We all understand rugby league has issues in South Africa but this is about fecking Scotland.

RU is entrenched in Afrikaans. Part of their DNA.

The Bafana Bafana - South African football team - is entrenched among the black populous.

What the likes of Stallion needs to get is countries like South Africa is more or less a closed shop when it comes to trying to grow another sport. Sport being part of culture, to change the cultural indentity of a people is very difficult. It's not like trying to sell them a new car - something that is transient - for the vast majority of people your sport is for life. Canada - and the US - is different as North Americans have a transient culture. They pick up a new fad and then move on to the next one. Look at their sports teams - "franchises" - they up sticks and move to another location at the whim of a team "owner", an abomination and an alien concept pretty much everywhere else. RL could very well find a lucrative spot there.

Every obstacle they face in Scotland, I guarantee you they are facing the same ones (TENFOLD) in continental Europe. That hasn't stopped the likes of Serbia, Czech Republic and Ukraine digging in and successfully developing the game in their countries.

Bar pockets in the south of France, who plays either code in continental Europe? RU is being made out to be some sort of all conquering behemoth that is trampling all over the development of RL. The truth is RU barely registers in 95% of the planet. If 33 million people watched the RUWC final - 97% of those viewers being from British isles, Aus, NZ, SA and France (8 countries out of 200 plus, so less than 5% of the world's nations) - and there are 7 billion people on the planet, that also works out at less than 5% of the world's populous watched the highest profile game of RU. Over 95% of the planet couldn't have gave a monkeys.

With over 95% having no interest in RU, theoretically that's 95% of the planet RL has to work with unhindered. The reality is though it's very hard to grow a sport - i.e. change the cultural identity of a people - especially so for collision sports which rank way down in numbers of participation and viewership outside their own cultural heartland. As I said collision based sports - running into another human being - is an acquired taste.

Rugby union courtesy of their association through the priviledged class are way more powerful than you think. It's things like RL not having recognition as a sport by international sporting bodies and access to affluent sponsors that don't give a shit if they make money or not as long as its helping out RU that goes by the "not noticed"or unaware channel of thought. I can attach more examples of this if u like. Just request and I will forward. Here's an article that shows how things are in one country:

Phil Caplan - editor of Forty20 magazine - I highly recommend it btw - states the criteria for Sports Accord has not been met. There aren't enough domestic leagues. He has no time for the kind of conspiracy nonsense you peddle.

RU has zero power or presence in 95% of the planet, it has little or no presence in working class areas of England - ball park figure that's about 90% - yet you continually pluck out the tiny demographic - private schools in England - as holding the sport back and conveniently ignore the 90% plus of unhindered territory in England RL has to work with. It doesn't suit your agenda though.

Basically the Scottish team are made of players who are either not good enough for Australia or England or just waiting to be called up by Australia or England

Quite a few teams are in the same boat, Ireland being the other one from the British isles. It works fine for Pacific island nations as they have rugby - both codes - in their culture, so the sport will get coverage regardless where the players are from. This is not the case with Scotland, Ireland, Italy and others that have a team made up of lesser English or Aussie players as RL doesn't have any tangible presence to begin with. McCormack leaving the Scotland job after 13 years and it not making a peep of news in Scotland is indicative of this.

The RLIF get a lot of stick for not growing the game more but unlike the so called experts who complain they know how difficult it is, and how costly. The last RLWC made $7 million Aussie dollars? What on earth can RL do with that to grow the game? Development officers have been cut in Scotland as funds are tight. First and foremost the sport should strengthen the heartlands - develop new stadia such as the proposed one for Wakefield - and get more people playing it in these areas - numbers are down 9% to 44,900. Spreading resources too thin will only weaken the heartlands and the sport as a whole.