Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[muzby]

For example, you have a club like Cronulla who people were talking about being in financial ruins. The peptide scandal also caused many sponsors to walk away. There was talk in the media that they were going to fold within a season. Through this time, they were one of the most consistent teams on the field,and even won a grand final.

So you’re saying there is a link between performance enhancing drugs and on field performance?

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

So you’re saying there is a link between performance enhancing drugs and on field performance?

hahaha you got me.

Cronulla still won the GF and haven't been stripped of their title.

 

[muzby]

hahaha you got me.

Cronulla still won the GF and haven't been stripped of their title.

Cronulla - 2016 Premiers*

 

[True_Believer]

I find it funny that people talk about both the St George and Illawarra clubs being in financial difficulty and being forced to merge. Heck, I find it funny to hear that any club in this league is in financial difficulty. For example, you have a club like Cronulla who people were talking about being in financial ruins. The peptide scandal also caused many sponsors to walk away. There was talk in the media that they were going to fold within a season. Through this time, they were one of the most consistent teams on the field,and even won a grand final. So what happened to all those rumours about them going broke? they're still in the league and appear to be doing much better than St George Illawarra.

How many have folded or shut down over the years? It's not one sided.

I'd suggest that many of the financial goings on of most clubs aren't common knowledge. Cronulla is a poor example as it's been confirmed they not only cheated the cap but indulged in performance enhancing drugs during that period that kept them consistent on the field. Being consistent on the field didn't help their financial position though.

A better example would be the Gold Coast. How many different teams have come and gone from there? And even now this team is being propped up by the NRL in an attempt get them on their feet - purely because the league see's the GC as valuable region. Take the NRL out of the picture and there's no doubt they wouldn't be far off becoming scalp number 3? Or is it 4? in the area.

 

[Old Timer]

But that's the problem, and as much as you might get frustrated by Muzby's responses, he does have a point - as does SBD. It's not about us and them anymore. It's a single entity.
You talk about St George being crippled, and you are right. But do you honestly think, that given the way the club was sliding, that it would have been able to pull itself out? In time, they would have joined Illawarra on life support. Both clubs would have been gone by now, or at least one dead and buried with the other just begging for a bullet. During that time leading up to the JV, the club management did nothing to improve the situation and since the JV the St George side of the board has contributed nothing more than the Illawarra side. I don't think 1 side is to blame for the situation more than the other. Both are in this together and both have failed miserably.

It really doesn't improve the situation when the fans, after 20 years of JV, are still pointing the finger at each other. What hope has the club got, when there is still division out in the trenches?

That was the point of my post - we need to move on.

If we move on with Illawarra it is like a one legged man trying to push a paraplegic up a hill in a non motorised wheel chair.
They don’t bring anything to the table and in fact like a cuckoo have dropped their Illawarra eggs in the JV nest.
Just call it St George and give them the Illawarra geographical area and be done with it.
If the St George name on its own can’t attract the right people to run and sponsor the joint then let it die and give the carcass to the hyena’s to pick over.
Far more chance of something that knows what greatness is of regaining it rather than something that failed dismally for its entire existence now professing it has their wherewithal to create something it has no knowledge of.
I don’t exonerate St George officials for their stupidity but the standalone name has much more appeal IMO to any decent suitors or soonsors.

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

How many have folded or shut down over the years? It's not one sided.

I'd suggest that many of the financial goings on of most clubs aren't common knowledge. Cronulla is a poor example as it's been confirmed they not only cheated the cap but indulged in performance enhancing drugs during that period that kept them consistent on the field. Being consistent on the field didn't help their financial position though.

A better example would be the Gold Coast. How many different teams have come and gone from there? And even now this team is being propped up by the NRL in an attempt get them on their feet - purely because the league see's the GC as valuable region. Take the NRL out of the picture and there's no doubt they wouldn't be far off becoming scalp number 3? Or is it 4? in the area.

Although Cronulla cheated the cap, and indulged in performance enhancing drugs, after being investigated by the NRL, they were allowed to keep their premiership. Also, all the talk of their demise vanished as well. (Maybe success brought sponsorship and membership? Sorry...I'm not a guru in this sort of thing, just my observations.)

Gold Coast is an example of a team that doesn't have many supporters, hence one of the main reasons they may be in financial difficulty (again, just me speculating). Although, if the NRL is propping them up, then all is good right?

So how does a popular team like St George with so many supporters have financial difficulty? If they are in financial difficulty, wouldn't the NRL prop them up as well? Why wouldn't the NRL want such popular clubs like this to succeed, instead of forcing them to merge?

 

[muzby]

If we move on with Illawarra it is like a one legged man trying to push a paraplegic up a hill in a non motorised wheel chair.

Are St George the one legged man or the paraplegic?

Far more chance of something that knows what greatness is of regaining it rather than something that failed dismally for its entire existence now professing it has their wherewithal to create something it has no knowledge of.

What was life like during the Roman Empire? I’ve always been curious to know..

 

[Walpole]

What was life like during the Roman Empire? I’ve always been curious to know..

The Romans were notorious salary cap cheats and usually took out the title but their fans would not accept mediocrity under any circumstances. Sack Caesar!!

 

[muzby]

Sack Caesar!!

I hear the board will get him in March..

 

[Carlton]

St Georges League club have recently just invested big $ setting up a
child care providing an income of 500k
per year + the club also generates an annual profit.

Whereas the Steelers club consistently
makes losses.

Let's see what plan does get presented
if any?
At this stage selling Kogarah and setting up in the Gong is only a dream
with no successful business model forecast or planned
suggesting a sustainable profit for the long term.

The Kogarah model at this stage is the only thing keeping the club afloat.

Dont be so sure, as I said St George Leagues Club is worth more closed and sold than open.

A big regional broadcaster with strong connections to the Illawarra spends shareholder money to buy part of a sporting club. You don't think WIN have a bigger picture plan than just owning half of a dysfunctional JV?

The Steelers club is now not part of the equation re funding.

 

[smi962]

If we move on with Illawarra it is like a one legged man trying to push a paraplegic up a hill in a non motorised wheel chair.
They don’t bring anything to the table and in fact like a cuckoo have dropped their Illawarra eggs in the JV nest.
Just call it St George and give them the Illawarra geographical area and be done with it.
If the St George name on its own can’t attract the right people to run and sponsor the joint then let it die and give the carcass to the hyena’s to pick over.
Far more chance of something that knows what greatness is of regaining it rather than something that failed dismally for its entire existence now professing it has their wherewithal to create something it has no knowledge of.
I don’t exonerate St George officials for their stupidity but the standalone name has much more appeal IMO to any decent suitors or soonsors.

Lol, stupid thing I have ever heard, I will sponsor St George Dragons but not St George Illawarra Dragons. As a sponsor I am turned off by the addition of the Illawarra name in there, has nothing to do with the success of the club, management and its values.

Just call it St George and give them the Illawarra geographical area and be done with it.
Yeah that makes sense - give St George the region but remove region ties from the name. We will call a relocated club Cronulla Sharks but make them play in Perth.

I find some of the people on this site who generally have some reason/logic, lose the plot on this issue due to emotion involved for them. The arguments become nonsensical.

 

[denis preston]

If we move away from Illawarra it will give the NRL a excuse to move us interstate.

 

[Old Timer]

Lol, stupid thing I have ever heard, I will sponsor St George Dragons but not St George Illawarra Dragons. As a sponsor I am turned off by the addition of the Illawarra name in there, has nothing to do with the success of the club, management and its values.

Just call it St George and give them the Illawarra geographical area and be done with it.
Yeah that makes sense - give St George the region but remove region ties from the name. We will call a relocated club Cronulla Sharks but make them play in Perth.

I find some of the people on this site who generally have some reason/logic, lose the plot on this issue due to emotion involved for them. The arguments become nonsensical.

Illawarra had more than enough time to make it in their own and failed to do so despite the “obvious benefits” according to some that it brings to the JV.
One would think they would have been able to bring a big benefactor with them how did they go with that?
They would battle to be more significant than Wentworthville
If St George had of been relocated in its entirety where would Illawarra be today?

 

[muzby]

If we move away from Illawarra it will give the NRL a excuse to move us interstate.

Precisely..

The next Sydney NRL club to fold will most likely be shifted interstate..

Joining with Illawarra was the smartest thing St George has done in a long time as it ensures they can stay local..

 

[muzby]

If St George had of been relocated in its entirety where would Illawarra be today?

Illawarra Sharks

 

[Saints Forever]

Illawarra Sharks

May yet occur

 

[Objective View]

I hear the board will get him in March..

You are a very funny man, Muzby. Very funny.

Straight Shooter

 

[Frank Facer]

I'm not advocating the Leagues club be sold, that we move to the Illawarra and rely on WIN.

I'm saying that this is looking like the scenario that is playing out. Selling the Leagues club to a developer would generate conservatively $40+ million and you can bet there would be some very good bonuses paid if this happened.

The NRL are making it more and more obvious they are pushing the club to be based in the Illawarra. We now have a part owner of the JV based in the Illawarra who appears to be making a lot of the decisions.

If the club is Illawarra based why would a mediocre Leagues club in Kogarah be kept?

If I was running Saints, I wouldn't even consider selling the Leagues club. I would be looking to purchase as much land around the leagues club, with a view of knocking down the old one and building a new bigger and better leagues club. I would have been purchasing land from as early as possible too. I would even be looking at building other assets, such as a motel, aquatic centre, water slide park, indoor amusement park, restaurants, night clubs, indoor sporting facilities for sports such as indoor cricket, indoor soccer, indoor netball, volley ball, basketball, dodge ball, tennis.

 

[Old Timer]

Illawarra Sharks

Would have preferred that as it would have gone down hill quicker than what we are
Then St George could have picked over the carcass.

 

[Frank Facer]

Although Cronulla cheated the cap, and indulged in performance enhancing drugs, after being investigated by the NRL, they were allowed to keep their premiership. Also, all the talk of their demise vanished as well. (Maybe success brought sponsorship and membership? Sorry...I'm not a guru in this sort of thing, just my observations.)

Gold Coast is an example of a team that doesn't have many supporters, hence one of the main reasons they may be in financial difficulty (again, just me speculating). Although, if the NRL is propping them up, then all is good right?

So how does a popular team like St George with so many supporters have financial difficulty? If they are in financial difficulty, wouldn't the NRL prop them up as well? Why wouldn't the NRL want such popular clubs like this to succeed, instead of forcing them to merge?

In 2011, I think we were generating more income than any other club in the NRL. Any club who struggles on the field, besides Easts and Brisbane are going to struggle to generate income off the field. If we got back to being successful, then we would be making a lot more money off the field. Another example of success breeds success. The rich get richer and the poor the poorer.