Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[Dennis Papaioannou]

And where is this management? They’ve been running St george into the ground for over 30 years now..


You will..

And the NSW Cup will be honoured to have such a club running around in it..

I can see I struck a nerve Musby.
Astute management does not include the current crop of Illawarra cronies and St. George old boys.
I think you underestimate what a stand alone St. George could achieve.

 

[SBD82]

We are re-visiting the past when first Cronulla Southerland split away deviding our district and junior catchment area with the blessing of the ARL and member clubs at the time. Then Illawarra decided to split away further dividing our district and junior catchment area.

But wait, Cronulla nearly went bust and still could do so if property prices continue to decline. Then Illawarra went bust with WIN Corp coming to their rescue buying their shares and paying the debts (much of which was owed to WIN and the Gordon family anyway).

Now St George are on solid ground financially, WIN Corp owns Illawarra and Cronulla are still not out of the woods. If I was to invest my money surely would not go to Illawarra or Cronulla however St George looks like a good bet.

I don't buy the line about the Taj. In its day it was one of the best clubs in Sydney. There was a 2 to 3 year wait for membership. Unfortunately management has let it go down the tube but I'm confident a good operator could refurbish it and make it rock again. Maybe it can be re-named St George Sports club and so bring in other sports such as union, soccer and touch football to boost membership and have shared use of Kogarah Jubilee Oval.

I wouldn't worry if some day we lost the Illawarra district as a district. We would just follow the way other clubs like Easts, Souths and Canterbury operate; with a smaller district competition, less junior clubs and a stand alone operation. We could just snatch players from the Illawarra district when we spot them or when they come to us; just like most of the other clubs do.

Make it so that full members of the St George Leagues Club are also full members of the St George Football Club and that full members have a right to vote at Board AGMs each year. I have no doubt that we would quickly see a vast improvement in the performance of both the Leagues Club and the Football Club.

Yes I can hear it now, back to the good old days, every home game at Kogarah.

For those that do not know, I was born at Bulli Hospital and lived at Wenona early in my life however, I have always been a Saints supporter.

I’m going to have to call bullshit Possm. Surely if you’d grown up in Woonona you’d have learned to spell Woonona.

You know what? I’m a huge advocate of the JV continuing. But when people like you shit on the Illawarra, it makes me think that maybe we should just let St George go. Keep the name and the history, but cut loose the attachment to the area that is holding us back.

For all of your fantastic ideas in this post, the reality is that St George is a club with an outdated home ground, a shithole of a leagues club, a large but geographically dispersed fan base, a tiny juniors area, and a board that couldn’t organise a f**k in a brothel.

And history. Lots of history. History that is important to us, but no one else gives a f**k about. Don’t kid yourself that it’s otherwise.

 

[muzby]

I can see I struck a nerve Musby.
Astute management does not include the current crop of Illawarra cronies and St. George old boys.
I think you underestimate what a stand alone St. George could achieve.

No nerve.. Just pointing out more gaps in your expectations..

A stand alone St George achieved nothing for the last 20 years of existence, and even since then club management have further run the taj and the JV into the ground..

A stand alone St George would be the least successful club in the comp as they have achieved nothing in the past 40 years.. That’s a long time in football.. (Hell, we’re celebrating the 50th anniversary of the moon landing this week..)

How exactly would you turn around such a long history of failure?

 

[possm]

And where is this management? They’ve been running St george into the ground for over 30 years now..


You will..

And the NSW Cup will be honoured to have such a club running around in it..

Does Illawarra have a team in the NSW Cup? Illawarra are hanging onto the St George coattail and WIN Corp apron strings. They went bust despite all of this support.

St George would do well without the Illawarra old boys running things and with a democratic system for election of Board members. Finally we may have a management team that well be accountable to Club members.

 

[muzby]

Does Illawarra have a team in the NSW Cup? Illawarra are hanging onto the St George coattail and WIN Corp apron strings. They went bust despite all of this support.

St George would do well without the Illawarra old boys running things and with a democratic system for election of Board members. Finally we may have a management team that well be accountable to Club members.

See now you’re just repeating yourself..

 

[True_Believer]

For all of your fantastic ideas in this post, the reality is that St George is a club with an outdated home ground, a shithole of a leagues club, a large but geographically dispersed fan base, a tiny juniors area, and a board that couldn’t organise a f**k in a brothel.

And history. Lots of history. History that is important to us, but no one else gives a f**k about. Don’t kid yourself that it’s otherwise.

I'm originally a Saint George supporter, however the sooner people realise this stuff, the sooner we can move forward.

The history is great to cherish, but it's not something you can base your continued success on - particularly when the best of it is now over 50 years ago.

When Cooper left and spoke about the club living in the past, I reckon he could also have referred to many supporters. We need to change our view and move forward.

 

[muzby]

I'm originally a Saint George supporter, however the sooner people realise this stuff, the sooner we can move forward.

The history is great to cherish, but it's not something you can base your continued success on - particularly when the best of it is now over 50 years ago.

When Cooper left and spoke about the club living in the past, I reckon he could also have referred to many supporters. We need to change our view and move forward.

 

[Old Timer]

I'm originally a Saint George supporter, however the sooner people realise this stuff, the sooner we can move forward.

The history is great to cherish, but it's not something you can base your continued success on - particularly when the best of it is now over 50 years ago.

When Cooper left and spoke about the club living in the past, I reckon he could also have referred to many supporters. We need to change our view and move forward.

Indeed you are correct but it is about who or what you move forward with
muzby and a few others keep making out that we were saved by Illawarra and without them we were nothing and destined for extinction
St George was crippled but not paralysed like Illawarra so they cobbled us together and we ended up a complete cot case
Illawarra brought nothing to the table that we didn’t already have in previous eras.
We got the booby prize in the raffle.
I would like to know 1 good reason why the name Illawarra needed to be retained in the NRL?

 

[muzby]

muzby and a few others keep making out that we were saved by Illawarra and without them we were nothing and destined for extinction

By “others” I assume you mean the NRL and their criteria..

We got the booby prize in the raffle.

Only fair, considering St George can barely organise a chook raffle..

I would like to know 1 good reason why the name Illawarra needed to be retained in the NRL?

St George Sharks.

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

How one of the most famous and popular clubs in RL is forced to merge with another is a deadset joke and embarrassment. Nothing against you Illawarra Steeler supporters. You guys should be pissed that you merged with St George and pretty much lost all your identity. Had the team been called the Illawarra St George Steelers, and then kept the Steelers emblem and playing strip, then there is no way I would follow league again. I hate the illawarra side of the team (again, nothing against Steelers supporters) I am just a proud St George fan who grew up in the area and was proud of my team. The sooner the teams are separated, the better I say.

 

[SaintPauli]

I'm not advocating the Leagues club be sold, that we move to the Illawarra and rely on WIN.

I'm saying that this is looking like the scenario that is playing out. Selling the Leagues club to a developer would generate conservatively $40+ million and you can bet there would be some very good bonuses paid if this happened.

The NRL are making it more and more obvious they are pushing the club to be based in the Illawarra. We now have a part owner of the JV based in the Illawarra who appears to be making a lot of the decisions.

If the club is Illawarra based why would a mediocre Leagues club in Kogarah be kept?

St Georges League club have recently just invested big $ setting up a
child care providing an income of 500k
per year + the club also generates an annual profit.

Whereas the Steelers club consistently
makes losses.

Let's see what plan does get presented
if any?
At this stage selling Kogarah and setting up in the Gong is only a dream
with no successful business model forecast or planned
suggesting a sustainable profit for the long term.

The Kogarah model at this stage is the only thing keeping the club afloat.

 

[SaintPauli]

Incorrect..

You and Saints Forever should probably go brush up on the cross media ownership laws at the time..

For all our benefit please paste it on this forum!

 

[muzby]

How one of the most famous and popular clubs in RL is forced to merge with another is a deadset joke and embarrassment. Nothing against you Illawarra Steeler supporters. You guys should be pissed that you merged with St George and pretty much lost all your identity. Had the team been called the Illawarra St George Steelers, and then kept the Steelers emblem and playing strip, then there is no way I would follow league again. I hate the illawarra side of the team (again, nothing against Steelers supporters) I am just a proud St George fan who grew up in the area and was proud of my team. The sooner the teams are separated, the better I say.

So much us and them..

The sooner you realise it’s a “we” the happier you’ll be..

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

No nerve.. Just pointing out more gaps in your expectations..

A stand alone St George achieved nothing for the last 20 years of existence, and even since then club management have further run the taj and the JV into the ground..

A stand alone St George would be the least successful club in the comp as they have achieved nothing in the past 40 years.. That’s a long time in football.. (Hell, we’re celebrating the 50th anniversary of the moon landing this week..)

How exactly would you turn around such a long history of failure?

Blah Blah Blah
Tow the line Mus
IWYD!!

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

So much us and them..

The sooner you realise it’s a “we” the happier you’ll be..

Nah...I try...but I can't lie to myself.

 

[SaintPauli]

I can see I struck a nerve Musby.
Astute management does not include the current crop of Illawarra cronies and St. George old boys.
I think you underestimate what a stand alone St. George could achieve.

I have been passionate about the St George dragons since the age of 7.

THE MAIN reason I became a fan and attracted to The St George Dragons was hearing from friends and relatives about the clubs rich history and successfully premiership tally.

43 years on I cannot accept the St George Dragons cannot add to their 15 premiership tally. Second in NRL history.

In a nut shell, as a long term fan I feel cheated and ripped of by the NRL .

Finally, the manner in which Muzby fails to acknowledge or sympathise the above is disappointing to say the least.

 

[muzby]

For all our benefit please paste it on this forum!

Back when Bruce owned part of channel 10, he couldn’t have more than 15% as that would breach the government regulations giving him a reach of more than 75% of the population..

So the issue came when trying to buy the whole channel with Murdoch that he would be in breach..

They lobbied to change and tried to bid again during the change process but were denied..


Here’s a good over view of what was in place back then..

https://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/changes-to-media-control-and-diversity-rules

So it’s got nothing to do with Bruce losing his investment and a hell of a lot to do with government regulations..

 

[muzby]

I have been passionate about the St George dragons since the age of 7.

THE MAIN reason I became a fan and attracted to The St George Dragons was hearing from friends and relatives about the clubs rich history and successfully premiership tally.

43 years on I cannot accept the St George Dragons cannot add to their 15 premiership tally. Second in NRL history.

In a nut shell, as a long term fan I feel cheated and ripped of by the NRL .

Finally, the manner in which Muzby fails to acknowledge or sympathise the above is disappointing to say the least.

My condolences. Do you want a tissue?

Plenty of folk have lost the team they support over the years..

Be glad you can still cheer yours on in first grade (for now..)

History is great, but history moves on..

I find it interesting that when they talk of the great 11 in a row streak, they say “never before, never again”..

I wonder how many folk actually pay attention to the last two words..

 

[True_Believer]

Indeed you are correct but it is about who or what you move forward with
muzby and a few others keep making out that we were saved by Illawarra and without them we were nothing and destined for extinction
St George was crippled but not paralysed like Illawarra so they cobbled us together and we ended up a complete cot case
Illawarra brought nothing to the table that we didn’t already have in previous eras.
We got the booby prize in the raffle.
I would like to know 1 good reason why the name Illawarra needed to be retained in the NRL?

But that's the problem, and as much as you might get frustrated by Muzby's responses, he does have a point - as does SBD. It's not about us and them anymore. It's a single entity.

You talk about St George being crippled, and you are right. But do you honestly think, that given the way the club was sliding, that it would have been able to pull itself out? In time, they would have joined Illawarra on life support. Both clubs would have been gone by now, or at least one dead and buried with the other just begging for a bullet. During that time leading up to the JV, the club management did nothing to improve the situation and since the JV the St George side of the board has contributed nothing more than the Illawarra side. I don't think 1 side is to blame for the situation more than the other. Both are in this together and both have failed miserably.

It really doesn't improve the situation when the fans, after 20 years of JV, are still pointing the finger at each other. What hope has the club got, when there is still division out in the trenches?

That was the point of my post - we need to move on.

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

But that's the problem, and as much as you might get frustrated by Muzby's responses, he does have a point - as does SBD. It's not about us and them anymore. It's a single entity.

You talk about St George being crippled, and you are right. But do you honestly think, that given the way the club was sliding, that it would have been able to pull itself out? In time, they would have joined Illawarra on life support. Both clubs would have been gone by now, or at least one dead and buried with the other just begging for a bullet. During that time leading up to the JV, the club management did nothing to improve the situation and since the JV the St George side of the board has contributed nothing more than the Illawarra side. I don't think 1 side is to blame for the situation more than the other. Both are in this together and both have failed miserably.

It really doesn't improve the situation when the fans, after 20 years of JV, are still pointing the finger at each other. What hope has the club got, when there is still division out in the trenches?

That was the point of my post - we need to move on.

I find it funny that people talk about both the St George and Illawarra clubs being in financial difficulty and being forced to merge. Heck, I find it funny to hear that any club in this league is in financial difficulty. For example, you have a club like Cronulla who people were talking about being in financial ruins. The peptide scandal also caused many sponsors to walk away. There was talk in the media that they were going to fold within a season. Through this time, they were one of the most consistent teams on the field,and even won a grand final. So what happened to all those rumours about them going broke? they're still in the league and appear to be doing much better than St George Illawarra.