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SJ.

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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Also I see SJ is guesting on the Fox sports commentary team this week in the buildup to the Roosters vs Sea Eagles game. Should be a good opportunity to see how he goes in a more general comments and analysis role.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
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9,379
Man, you were hating on Uncle Ives! 🤣
Hahaha sort of, I was all over the place really but I did say I would wait until 2012 to re-sign him if he got to a GF, which he did. And I was very reluctant about Bluey for exactly the right reasons. I know I would never have punted Ivan without a proven better option.

Clearly I was blase about making finals as much as Ivan did, and got that way wrong that 5 years was a time frame in which a premiership was expected.

There is also the back story that I asked a question in a presser once and Ivan shut me down with more than a hint of disdain and ridicule...I probably didn't live that down quickly!
 
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Izz

Bench
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3,895
Hahaha sort of, I was all over the place really but I did say I would wait until 2012 to re-sign him if he got to a GF, which he did. And I was very reluctant about Bluey for exactly the right reasons. I know I would never have punted Ivan without a proven better option.
Urgh, Bluey. I remember spending a good half of the 2012 season posting derpy pics of Bluey in here pretty much every opportunity I got...
There is also the back story that I asked a question in a presser once and Ivan shut me down with more than a hint of disdain and ridicule...I probably didn't live that down quickly!
:D:D
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,119
Bluey's collapse in results. I remember how despondent I was.

It didn't have to be like that, as I remember the first game of the season (or second) at Parramatta with my mum and dad. After a slow start we blew them off the park with some blistering play.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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39,944
Bluey's collapse in results. I remember how despondent I was.

It didn't have to be like that, as I remember the first game of the season (or second) at Parramatta with my mum and dad. After a slow start we blew them off the park with some blistering play.
We played reallly positively in the early part of that season but from what I remember gave up starts and didn’t get the results- then by mid season the confidence was dropping off and we were regularly imploding after getting good leads.
 
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Also I see SJ is guesting on the Fox sports commentary team this week in the buildup to the Roosters vs Sea Eagles game. Should be a good opportunity to see how he goes in a more general comments and analysis role.
SJ was terrible when he commentated the Kiwis game last year.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,379
We played reallly positively in the early part of that season but from what I remember gave up starts and didn’t get the results- then by mid season the confidence was dropping off and we were regularly imploding after getting good leads.
I will say that I believe Bluey got an absolutely raw deal from the players in that side. As you say, we actually played pretty well - round 1 we matched Manly (the premiers), Round 2 battered Parra, we were actually in the 8 as late as round 19. Lost three close games to Brisbane, Newcastle and Manly, then gave up and started getting belted by 40+

Bluey could coach, but they did him dirty by not allowing him to be an assistant first. Then the players knew they could lay down and stop playing, and blame it on him as an inexperienced coach in the NRL.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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39,944
I will say that I believe Bluey got an absolutely raw deal from the players in that side. As you say, we actually played pretty well - round 1 we matched Manly (the premiers), Round 2 battered Parra, we were actually in the 8 as late as round 19. Lost three close games to Brisbane, Newcastle and Manly, then gave up and started getting belted by 40+

Bluey could coach, but they did him dirty by not allowing him to be an assistant first. Then the players knew they could lay down and stop playing, and blame it on him as an inexperienced coach in the NRL.
I actually wonder if lack of a suitable assistant might have been part of Bluey’s problem. I’ve seen a lot of a discussion in the past about what makes a good head coach vs a good assistant, and wonder if Iro was bringing much to the table in that respect at the time.
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
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9,904
I will say that I believe Bluey got an absolutely raw deal from the players in that side. As you say, we actually played pretty well - round 1 we matched Manly (the premiers), Round 2 battered Parra, we were actually in the 8 as late as round 19. Lost three close games to Brisbane, Newcastle and Manly, then gave up and started getting belted by 40+

Bluey could coach, but they did him dirty by not allowing him to be an assistant first. Then the players knew they could lay down and stop playing, and blame it on him as an inexperienced coach in the NRL.
The players had horrendous attitudes around those times, I remember a game where the Warriors got absolutely smashed at Mt Smart in the final few rounds of the season, could see players putting no effort in, and in a subsequent interview Johnson made comments about how they knew the coach was gone and they weren’t playing for him, was an unbelievable comment and backed up an effort I saw where he just hung an arm out and didn’t even bother chasing the subsequent break
 

SpaceMonkey

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The players had horrendous attitudes around those times, I remember a game where the Warriors got absolutely smashed at Mt Smart in the final few rounds of the season, could see players putting no effort in, and in a subsequent interview Johnson made comments about how they knew the coach was gone and they weren’t playing for him, was an unbelievable comment and backed up an effort I saw where he just hung an arm out and didn’t even bother chasing the subsequent break
Considering Johnson was only a year into his career at that point I question why he was even being interviewed, and what the senior players were doing in terms of leadership. I know Maloney clocked out pretty quickly that season.
 
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Manu Vatuvei

Coach
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17,146
There was definitely a fairly widely held belief up until late 2011 that Ivan was a good but not great coach, who could get us to finals but lacked X factor. We’d had 4/5 seasons of playing consistently good and competitive but generally not spectacular footy at that point.

The other factor to remember is that 2008-2011 were the first years of the NYC and that really put it out on the big stage that we had the best crop of youngsters in the comp. The perception was that Ivan was thumbing his nose at the local talent to stack the side with Aussie battlers and play Bomb To Manu.

Cleary said in his recent interview with Monty Betham that he had not been keen on signing Mateo and Inu in 2011 because they were not his sort of players. Of course, we can look back on those signings now and say maybe he was right, but they were also crucial to us making that GF. I guess that sort of sums him up.

Don't forget also that 2011 was a patchy season and we weren't going that well when Ivan was shown the door. Our late season run was in no small part due to the likes of Mateo, Inu, and SJ - who Ivan had been very reluctant to select. Our run to the GF was in part related to Ivan actually loosening up a bit when he wasn't re-signed.
 

JJ

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32,321
Begs the question on Cleary - is he a great coach? Runs a great system atm with a lot of talent (that aspect actually built by Gould et al) - and makes sound choices on retention and signing - letting Crichton and Kikau go were big risks, Burton and Luai too - many think Bellamy would have been a great success here too, I'm not sure - at least not in the sustained way he and Cleary are having success now if they were to lean on local talent - which as you say seems to tire quickly of a disciplined system (Webster probably finding that out) - Anderson seemed to get the balance of discipline and flair better?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,379
I actually wonder if lack of a suitable assistant might have been part of Bluey’s problem. I’ve seen a lot of a discussion in the past about what makes a good head coach vs a good assistant, and wonder if Iro was bringing much to the table in that respect at the time.
I think that's a major issue for Webster now, too. And any coach who lacks experience. Bluey was thrust into that role too early, having no week-to-week involvement in the NRL. And yeah, absolutely he could have benefited from a strong assistant or two who knew the competition. Iro wasn't that, he was more likely to white-ant you, similar to how David Kidwell did to Jason Taylor at the Tigers when the S hit the fan
 

Beavers Headgear

First Grade
Messages
9,904
Considering Johnson was only a year into his career at that point I question why he was even being interviewed, and what the senior players were doing in terms of leadership. I know Maloney clocked out pretty quickly that season.
I can’t quite remember the year of that interview but he was deeper into his career than that, maybe it was McFadden tenure ?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,379
Begs the question on Cleary - is he a great coach? Runs a great system atm with a lot of talent (that aspect actually built by Gould et al) - and makes sound choices on retention and signing - letting Crichton and Kikau go were big risks, Burton and Luai too - many think Bellamy would have been a great success here too, I'm not sure - at least not in the sustained way he and Cleary are having success now if they were to lean on local talent - which as you say seems to tire quickly of a disciplined system (Webster probably finding that out) - Anderson seemed to get the balance of discipline and flair better?
I think Cleary is a great coach, he clearly proved that in taking us to a lot of finals, only failing due to Sonny Fai's passing and a salary cap penalty he inherited. And he's been ultra consistent at Penrith, too. He's got a clear style, I think he needs the right cattle - he definitely needs time to mould his environment to include the players that fit.

I don't think he's in the Bellamy mould where he can turn anyone into a bonafide NRL star, or a Bennett who can fire anyone up. But he's a hell of a coach.
 
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JJ

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I think Cleary is a great coach, he clearly proved that in taking us to a lot of finals, only failing due to Sonny Fai's passing and a salary cap penalty he inherited. And he's been ultra consistent at Penrith, too. He's got a clear style, I think he needs the right cattle - he definitely needs time to mould his environment to include the players that fit.

I don't think he's in the Bellamy mould where he can turn anyone into a bonafide NRL star, or a Bennett who can fire anyone up. But he's a hell of a coach.
Cleary is a fine coach, and he's part of the best dynasty since St George atm

For the sake of debate, I'll take issue with the notion that Bellamy can turn anyone into a NRL star... those that have become true stars were either seriously good talents - Smith, Slater, Inglis, Grant, Hughes, Pap, Hynes, Munster etc or pretty good talents combined with relentless work and IQ - Cronk... The Storm system does seem to provide a level of role clarification and talent development that others don't (perhaps again except Penrith)
 

SpaceMonkey

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I can’t quite remember the year of that interview but he was deeper into his career than that, maybe it was McFadden tenure ?
Ah ok, I assumed you meant it was under Bluey. That whole period until Kearney with the revolving door of coaching was terrible for culture and morale.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,379
Cleary is a fine coach, and he's part of the best dynasty since St George atm

For the sake of debate, I'll take issue with the notion that Bellamy can turn anyone into a NRL star... those that have become true stars were either seriously good talents - Smith, Slater, Inglis, Grant, Hughes, Pap, Hynes, Munster etc or pretty good talents combined with relentless work and IQ - Cronk... The Storm system does seem to provide a level of role clarification and talent development that others don't (perhaps again except Penrith)
Love a debate...look at someone like Nick Meaney. I shouldn't have said star, I should have said bonafide NRL quality. Meaney would be a middle of the road, maybe in and out NRL player anywhere else but at the Storm he's a jet who can play anywhere in the back 5. Jahrome Hughes was a 22-year-old who hadn't gone anywhere quickly. Then there's the guys who Bellamy doesn't necessarily make better footballers, but they just fit in so well around the stars and the structure...then go to other clubs and look bog average because they always were (Lowrie, Nielsen, some would argue Hynes, etc)
 

JJ

Immortal
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32,321
Love a debate...look at someone like Nick Meaney. I shouldn't have said star, I should have said bonafide NRL quality. Meaney would be a middle of the road, maybe in and out NRL player anywhere else but at the Storm he's a jet who can play anywhere in the back 5. Jahrome Hughes was a 22-year-old who hadn't gone anywhere quickly. Then there's the guys who Bellamy doesn't necessarily make better footballers, but they just fit in so well around the stars and the structure...then go to other clubs and look bog average because they always were (Lowrie, Nielsen, some would argue Hynes, etc)
Agree 100 - Hughes shared a lot of similarities with Cronk I think - young, talented (different player to Cronk), utility value (which probably helped them learn the game better), who have been developed/manufactured/grown into elite halfbacks...I guess in some respects the opposites of Luke Brooks/Shaun Johnson who both have huge talent identified early, but ultimately underachieved - nobody could suggest Hughes and Cronk should have done more with their talents - and Bellamy's system must be huge there
 

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