SJ.

[JJ]

CNK has been great this year in spite of the sputtering attack that Webby has concocted this year. He was phenomenal against Titans when everyone around him was rubbish. If you want an indicator, he gave everyone a 4 game head start in our 3-2-1 and hes already up to 2nd, behind only AFB.

Yep, I guess the thing I wonder about is the definitive "he's our fullback" line, RTS is without doubt the better fullback (given the slot regularly), CNK can also play centre... Webster seems to have decided what's best, which is his job so all good - but it's not working, and he seems unable to make a change - aside from Johnson playing better, the other obvious change is RTS having the ball more often in the middle of the park - either as 1, or perhaps as 6 because TMM just isn't the answer

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Yep, I guess the thing I wonder about is the definitive "he's our fullback" line, RTS is without doubt the better fullback (given the slot regularly), CNK can also play centre... Webster seems to have decided what's best, which is his job so all good - but it's not working, and he seems unable to make a change - aside from Johnson playing better, the other obvious change is RTS having the ball more often in the middle of the park - either as 1, or perhaps as 6 because TMM just isn't the answer

Yea that's my thinking as well. No slight on CNK at all... dude is all heart and the Mannering comparison mentioned is spot on.

But the team is obviously misfiring and until we get bodies back to add to the mix, something else needs to change with the current playing group.

RTS remains a very very good fullback, we know that. We also know CNK has done perfectly well as a test centre.

Switching them around feels low effort, low risk, but potentially, high return. For the benefit of the team that’s gotta be worth exploring.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

CNK has been great this year in spite of the sputtering attack that Webby has concocted this year. He was phenomenal against Titans when everyone around him was rubbish. If you want an indicator, he gave everyone a 4 game head start in our 3-2-1 and hes already up to 2nd, behind only AFB.

This is why I find this whole conversation a bit odd. I was under the distinct impression that CNK was playing just as well if not better than last year.

If we switch CNK and RTS, my guess is that RTS will be getting a lot of ball out the back of shape with not much on, and CNK will be getting a little bit of ball on the left edge with not much on - so basically what's currently happening but swapped. In fact, our attack is likely to become even more right side dominant, because without RTS on the left we'll have no reason to go there at all.

RTS will have to work miracles to do better than CNK on kick returns, hit ups, work rate and defence.

Maybe I'm going too easy on CNK for not executing well enough when he chimes into our attack, but my impression is it's not his fault and the problem is either poor option taking from SJ or teams reading our shape too easily.

 

[Meth]

This is why I find this whole conversation a bit odd. I was under the distinct impression that CNK was playing just as well if not better than last year.

If we switch CNK and RTS, my guess is that RTS will be getting a lot of ball out the back of shape with not much on, and CNK will be getting a little bit of ball on the left edge with not much on - so basically what's currently happening but swapped. In fact, our attack is likely to become even more right side dominant, because without RTS on the left we'll have no reason to go there at all.

100%

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

In fact I find it almost impossible to see how our attacking structure would improve if we replaced the fullback who’s been running these plays for 18 months with a bloke who just came back from Union to train at centre. Logically, it’d almost definitely get worse.

What we really need is Super Coach at the whiteboard coming up with some plays.

 

[JJ]

In fact I find it almost impossible to see how our attacking structure would improve if we replaced the fullback who’s been running these plays for 18 months with a bloke who just came back from Union to train at centre. Logically, it’d almost definitely get worse.

What we really need is Super Coach at the whiteboard coming up with some plays.

too smart for me, I have limited knowledge compared to what you bring - but I do think they need to find a way to better use what RTS can bring... and regardless of how well CNK plays, RTS is likely the better fullback with time, and this season is teetering... something is profoundly wrong, surely it's not all Metcalfe's absence and the lack of a third prop?

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

too smart for me, I have limited knowledge compared to what you bring

haha what??

I do think they need to find a way to better use what RTS can bring... and regardless of how well CNK plays, RTS is likely the better fullback with time, and this season is teetering... something is profoundly wrong, surely it's not all Metcalfe's absence and the lack of a third prop?

RTS is/was definitely a better fullback than CNK, but his strength in that role tended to be his massive work rate carrying the ball, and CNK is exceptional in that area at the moment so I don’t think RTS could realistically improve on that much.

RTS could potentially add more in a roving support player or extra playmaker role, but before that could happen Webster would need to rejig the strategy to allow for that. I think allowing for a bit more flexibility in attack needs to happen first, otherwise switching the players around isn’t going to do anything.

I’d be happy for RTS to be tried at fullback if it coincided with our fullback playing a more varied role in our attack.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

haha what??




RTS is/was definitely a better fullback than CNK, but his strength in that role tended to be his massive work rate carrying the ball, and CNK is exceptional in that area at the moment so I don’t think RTS could realistically improve on that much.

RTS could potentially add more in a roving support player or extra playmaker role, but before that could happen Webster would need to rejig the strategy to allow for that. I think allowing for a bit more flexibility in attack needs to happen first, otherwise switching the players around isn’t going to do anything.

I’d be happy for RTS to be tried at fullback if it coincided with our fullback playing a more varied role in our attack.

Agree wholeheartedly on that last part.

On their respective strengths, I’d argue RTS has a similar workrate but better footwork, while CNK edges him on link play.

So if Webby doesn’t (or can’t) fix whatever is broken infield in order to realise the benefit of a good linking fullback, IMO the next best option is to put someone there who’s more likely to make a defender miss.

But anyway… we all want the same thing don’t we. However it’s achieved.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

On their respective strengths, I’d argue RTS has a similar workrate but better footwork, while CNK edges him on link play.

So if Webby doesn’t (or can’t) fix whatever is broken infield in order to realise the benefit of a good linking fullback, IMO the next best option is to put someone there who’s more likely to make a defender miss.

Absolutely agree. I guess my point is that leaving the overall structure as clunky as it is, or even making it clunkier, but having RTS beating a few more tackles, doesn’t strike me as a very compelling improvement. It might be a slight improvement, but if we want to unlock the backline we actually need to change the way we’re playing.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

One thing I’m wondering is if the current haves structure is an issue in how the team has been structured around SJ since the start of last year. He’s a very dominant half and the variations in the point of attack don’t so much come from the play going out to the other half than from Egan sniping from dummy half or Metcalf running off the cuff support lines. TMM just staying with the structure just means we keep getting the same right side plays except when SJ gets caught with the ball.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Yeah, I find it a touch bemusing that an RTS-CNK swap is being mooted. CNK, OK he wasn't at his best last week but he's been a beast the last 12 months. His work rate and metres gained is incredible, he is a strong defender and I presume organiser, we're really not going to gain a lot from RTS being there. We might unlock some lesser teams but I don't see it being a big advantage v well organised defenses.

There's a real level of impatience and failure to see the bigger picture of the systems being predictable, not winning the middle, and other factors that are resulting in RTS having pretty average ball to work with. He's still very early in his journey at centre and it seems like the patience has already worn out in giving him time to get better there...but also, what is going on around him is sub-par, and we're losing which leads to impatience and some go to the low-hanging fruit which is 'RTS to fullback'

To me, the biggest improvement in this team will come with a) less predictable attacking structures and getting something going in the opposition's 20m line b) working out how we use our bench and our interchange, allowing AFB/Barnett and co to play slightly less, more intense minutes and not having those lulls when both are off and c) getting more time into the young guys (Berry, Laban, Maiu'u, hopefully Leuatuai etc) and balancing that with the experienced guys producing around them.

It's coaching, basically, to me. Webster is a wonderful man but if you ask me the difference between 2023 to 2024, it's coaching. I don't think we've got better, or changed enough to negate the predictability of how we play.

 

[Meth]

re Johnson, it's really untenable for him to not train with the team and then turn up to play on game day expecting that everything will just click- especially if we are totally reliant on him as a half. Might seem obvious to say that, but it's weird to be talking about the possibility of re-signing him and not even discussing the possibility of dropping him until he can actually train with us. He's our best available half, but is he even available?

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

re Johnson, it's really untenable for him to not train with the team and then turn up to play on game day expecting that everything will just click- especially if we are totally reliant on him as a half. Might seem obvious to say that, but it's weird to be talking about the possibility of re-signing him and not even discussing the possibility of dropping him until he can actually train with us. He's our best available half, but is he even available?

Have there been any reports/rumours on whether his injury is improving? or even if it will, without a proper break?

 

[Meth]

Have there been any reports/rumours on whether his injury is improving? or even if it will, without a proper break?

not that I have seen. As I said, it’s not tenable to continue on like this

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

not that I have seen. As I said, it’s not tenable to continue on like this

Agree. Question I suppose is whether the alternative is any better, and without Metcalf or even CHT for a few more weeks, the alternatives are thin.

How have the Cup halves been going? Anyone there worth taking a (massive) punt on?

 

[Meth]

Agree. Question I suppose is whether the alternative is any better, and without Metcalf or even CHT for a few more weeks, the alternatives are thin.

How have the Cup halves been going? Anyone there worth taking a (massive) punt on?

I wouldn't imagine so. I think our eggs are in one basket, especially while missing Metcalf and CHT

 

[Izz]

Apparently his injury is improving. Webster says SJ will be training about 80% with the team this week. Can't remember whether I read that on nrl.com or stuff.

 

[Meth]

SJ edging closer to full health as pressure mounts on Warriors

After more than a month of being restricted to one training session a week, things are finally improving for Warriors playmaker Shaun Johnson.

www.nrl.com

 

[Philip_Smith007]

SJ edging closer to full health as pressure mounts on Warriors

After more than a month of being restricted to one training session a week, things are finally improving for Warriors playmaker Shaun Johnson.

www.nrl.com

Well I hope Webster learns it would be best to rest a player and give someone else a crack than persist thru an injury at SJs tender age. Funny we easied CNK back in, but pushed SJ thru it.

It's piss poor man management all round as no one has or been directed to stepped up to reduce his workload during the game either.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I don't really agree. We're f**ked without SJ - no CHT (who is coming off a hiatus out of the game completely) no Metcalf, TMM is doing nothing, and the NSW Cup halves are too green.

I really feel like Webster has no choice if he wants to win games. A crocked, not training SJ is still the best option, albeit not ideal