SMH:Finch asks for time to develop at Eels

[BG]

What about 2005? your saying that wasn't a choke 29-0.

More of a choke than 2001, I'll grant you that. But bear in mind that arguably the two most important members of the pack didn't play -- Hindy and Fuifui. And the backline was very inexperienced. A rookie half, one rookie centre (and Ben Smith certainly did choke), a fullback in only his second years of firsts. Up against the likes of Thurston and Bowen who were on fire.

Anyway, certainly a very poor performance. But if we're going to look at semi-final results, Brian Smith's record is actually rather good. Sure the 2005 game wasn't a highlight, and there was the infamous loss to the Bulldogs, but the "choking" reputation comes from his teams having lost 3 grand finals (4 if you count Bradford). You don't make grand finals if you don't win your fair share of semis.

Another thing to consider, is that at the start of 2005 most Parra fans were saying that with the heavy churn to the playing roster it would be a transitional year. The consensus was that if the team finished somewhere round the middle of the eight and put in some sort of show in the semis it would be a successful year, and a springboard for a serious premiership assault in 2006. At the start of the season, most fans would have considered the minor premiership, a romping win in week 1 of the final series and then a resounding defeat in round 2 to be a better result than they dared hope. If you were to go back and check the general mood of the posts both here and on the official forum at the time you'd see that if anything I'm understating the case. But once again, having exceeded everyone's expectations, Smithy and the team suffered a backlash when fans got over-excited upon winning the minor premiership.

 

[lucablight]

More of a choke than 2001, I'll grant you that. But bear in mind that arguably the two most important members of the pack didn't play -- Hindy and Fuifui. And the backline was very inexperienced. A rookie half, one rookie centre (and Ben Smith certainly did choke), a fullback in only his second years of firsts. Up against the likes of Thurston and Bowen who were on fire.

Anyway, certainly a very poor performance. But if we're going to look at semi-final results, Brian Smith's record is actually rather good. Sure the 2005 game wasn't a highlight, and there was the infamous loss to the Bulldogs, but the "choking" reputation comes from his teams having lost 3 grand finals (4 if you count Bradford). You don't make grand finals if you don't win your fair share of semis.

Another thing to consider, is that at the start of 2005 most Parra fans were saying that with the heavy churn to the playing roster it would be a transitional year. The consensus was that if the team finished somewhere round the middle of the eight and put in some sort of show in the semis it would be a successful year, and a springboard for a serious premiership assault in 2006. At the start of the season, most fans would have considered the minor premiership, a romping win in week 1 of the final series and then a resounding defeat in round 2 to be a better result than they dared hope. If you were to go back and check the general mood of the posts both here and on the official forum at the time you'd see that if anything I'm understating the case. But once again, having exceeded everyone's expectations, Smithy and the team suffered a backlash when fans got over-excited upon winning the minor premiership.

That to me sounds like you're making excuses.The Tigers were far less experienced than us and they won the competition. So you can't use inexperience as an excuse.
Also with the players we bought at the back end of 2004 I always expected us to do well as did alot of media commentators. In fact alot of people were jokingly wondering how we were staying under the salary cap. Winning the premiership was a realistic expectation for me. Granted winning a grand final is tough but opportunities are there to be taken and the Tigers took it and we didn't.

 

[BG]

That to me sounds like you're making excuses. The Tigers were far less experienced than us and they won the competition. So you can't use inexperience as an excuse.

You make a reasonable point, and I'll plead partly guilty. However, the Tigers did have a lot more star quality/big game experience in key positions -- SOO or test rep's at half/five-eighth/fullback is the kind of thing that wins you grand finals. I mean nothing against Smith/Morris/McKinnon but they ain't quite Prince/Marshall/Hodgson.

Also with the players we bought at the back end of 2004 I always expected us to do well as did alot of media commentators. In fact alot of people were jokingly wondering how we were staying under the salary cap. Winning the premiership was a realistic expectation for me.

Then you were the exception. I absolutely dispute that this was the general consensus. Most media commentators were tipping Parra to maybe scrape into the eight. As far as the fans are concerned I would challenge anyone to browse the posts both here and on the official Eels site during the 2005 pre-season and find more than a couple of posters touting the team as serious 2005 title contenders. While many were calling for Smithy's head due to the disappointments of '03/'04, there was an acknowledgment by others that the injury toll had been horrendous in that period. Nearly everyone was excited about the new recruits. By and large fans were expecting top 8, and the more optimistic top 4. Very very few were suggesting the likelihood of a minor premiership let alone a premiership.

Apart from all of that, even accepting that the loss to the Cowboys was a bad one, the fact remains that Brian Smith's overall record in semi-final football is excellent. It's a contradiction for people to say, on the one hand, well he can get a team to a grand final but then they always choke. And then lump one or two poor semi-final performances in as well, ignoring all the great semi-final victories that got his teams to 4 grand finals.

 

[Pazza]

How is it a choke when the other team has an overwhelming advantage in class, talent and big game experience?

its a choke cause we played (in the first half) know where near what we had displayed all season. Newcastle without a doubt were a awesome side in 2001 but they didnt beat us because they were a better side, they beat us cause we destroyed ourselves.

if you dont believed we choked hardcore then you are kidding yourself.

 

[Pazza]

Apart from all of that, even accepting that the loss to the Cowboys was a bad one, the fact remains that Brian Smith's overall record in semi-final football is excellent. It's a contradiction for people to say, on the one hand, well he can get a team to a grand final but then they always choke. And then lump one or two poor semi-final performances in as well, ignoring all the great semi-final victories that got his teams to 4 grand finals.

2000 against the roosters was awesome

 

[BG]

its a choke cause we played (in the first half) know where near what we had displayed all season. Newcastle without a doubt were a awesome side in 2001 but they didnt beat us because they were a better side, they beat us cause we destroyed ourselves.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

Firstly, the Knights had already beaten the Eels during the season and a reasonable case could be made that whenever Johns played the Knights rivalled or even surpassed the Eels as the most impressive team throughout the year.

More importantly, you completely understimate just how much players like Johns and Kennedy lifted on grand final day. The elite big game players always do. Parra had a sterling season but even Smithy's critics usually admit that once he gets a team clicking he is very good at getting them on a consistent roll. This doesn't mean he can wave a magic wand and take the team's peak performance up another few rungs if they simply don't have the class or experience.

Newcastle were indeed an "awesome side in 2001" and on a day when their best players went into overdrive, Parra simply did not have had the talent, big game experience and class to match them.

 

[Pazza]

Do you think the eels played anywhere near there best on grand final day 2001 bg?

 

[cardinal]

Smithy is gone lets talk about him at the end of the year when we have seen how he has gone at a new enviroment. Hags is here lets talk about him. I think a lot of supporters maybe don't know a lot about Rip Taylor our prem coach. As a player he was a tough as nails half straight out of the Tom Raudonikis mould. He was the first grade coach at Grafton ghosts way back , in group 1, I played reserve grade and he was a smart and inspiring coach. I think he will help Blake and Tim and any young half he has somthing to do with with their toughness and will bring out some mongrel in them.

 

[Bigfella]

I always understood a choke to be when you get yourself in a position in a match to win, but the pressure of imminent victory causes your performance to drop sharply.

Therefore 2005 when we lost to nil, and 2001 where we were down to nil at halftime - don't fit the definition of a choke.

I would have thought we were beaten by teams that performed better on the day.

The Bulldogs semi in 95 is the one that seems most like a choke - and possibly the Melbourne final in 99 - but I still think that Bill Harrigan's refereeing, with a couple of disallowed tries, played a big part in both.

 

[fish eel]

Perhaops Smith choked more than the players in 2001.

They took to the field over awed, with stars in theior eyes, and completely under prepared for the intensity of a grand final. Every man and his dog knew how hard newcastle would go early, and we folded like adeck of cards.

2005, we had plenty of experience on the paddock, Cayless, Stringer, Wagon, Robinson, Riddell and Morrison for starters in the pack. Sure the half was a bit green, but when experienced forwards roll over.....what is he going to do?

 

[Freak2]

I think you can go one further and suggest that Smith's record in sudden death "must win" games is remarkable. Noting that he has not won the game that counts.

Can someone explain what the meaning of Choke is? Or how it came about? and in what context it relates to a game you do not win that you should have won?

 

[The Colonel]

To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest: choked by missing an easy putt on the final hole.

http://www.answers.com/topic/choke

In that respect all the results have been chokes.

 

[fish eel]

Can someone explain what the meaning of Choke is? Or how it came about? and in what context it relates to a game you do not win that you should have won?

I would say it's not just about losing.

2000 wasnt a choke, for example.

I think it's more when sides greatly underperform, panic and effectively give the match away....also if you are on the verge of victory and completely freeze

 

[fish eel]

http://www.answers.com/topic/choke

In that respect all the results have been chokes.

not 2000.

 

[hineyrulz]

2000 wasn't a choke, i was proud of the way the boys played against a very good Bronco's side. In 1998 i thought with the side we had we overacheived, but when you lose after being 18 - 2 up with 11 mins to go that's got to be considered a choke.

In 1999 i think we lead by 10 at halftime, we bombed a few tries i definatley think that was a choke. In 2001 we didn't turn up that first half, totally overawed and we we're down 24 nil at halftime. while we came back in the second half to only lose by six i still thought we took the gas.

Then we come to 2005, which i consider the worst loss of all. The team didn't show up it was woeful, i'll never forget the look on Hindys face on the sideline with 10mins to go. If that's not a choke i'm not here.

 

[The Colonel]

not 2000.

Sorry, should have clarified that one. 2000 was a brilliant effort.....

 

[Jake the snake]

98,99,01,05 ......... were chokes. 05 was the biggest choke, the main difference being that with the other chokes we at least scored points. Melbourne choked last year and the other big choke was by the Bulldogs..... how good was that?? hahaha

 

[Freak2]

1998 - Overacheived to lose the impossible semi final
1999 - Losing to the Storm after leading at halftime in a night game at the Footy stadium. 2000 - The year Vaeliki got steam rolled by Thorn on our line. AAAARHHHHHHHH - but in hindsight what a great effort by our boys!!
2001 - The most unbelievable year that came down to one poor performance by (in my opinion) 1 player. Harsh but true
2005 - In my opinion if Fui and Hindy stay fit we win the comp by panels!

If your looking for an over achieving team - TIGERS 05! The biggest over acheivers in modern sporting history!!

 

[The Colonel]

2000 - I just wanted Burty to be four or five inches inches taller...... :lol:

 

[Jake the snake]

2000 - I just wanted Burty to be four or five inches inches taller...... :lol:

Are you talking about his manhood or should I say his bannanarama?? I am shocked Colonel.......just shocked!! ;-)