SMH: Grothe in Origin frame

[fish eel]

I dunno if this has been said, but lets put it in perspective. El Masri was marking Shaun Berrigan...a hooker playing wing. Sure, he was solid, but he didn't have much to contend with. Other than kicking some goals and falling on a loose ball...what did he do? Not very much and I can't say he deserves another shot based on that performance. Solid is not what Origin is about, although with the sanitary and often boring nature of the contest these days I can see why people are jumping up and down about that mediocre performance

He was picked to do a job, and he did the job.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

He can be a token selection and a correct selection. For the selectors who have been hounded from pillar to post about the selection they have been found as being correct as his goal kicking seemingly helped in the end.

So you admit that goalkicking made the decision a success. So it wasn't a token gesture at all, was it?

The only way that it could be considered a token gesture is if the selectors didn't think he was the best man for the job but picked him anyway. They obviously took goalkicking into consideration.

If he was good enough for selection in the last game than he should have been good enough for the first two.

I agree. And so do the selectors - they didn't think he was good enough for game 3 until an injury. They got lucky. They should have had him there from game 1. But Bozo loves his fat Manly centre.

Much like his Australian jersey this was just a reward for a long serving player hence it being a token selection as well.

You were in the selection meeting were you? How the f**k do you know why they picked him?

It's much more likely that they thought he was the best option, rather than just throwing out jumpers willy-nilly. The selectors were under just as much pressure as anyone after the first two games. Don't you think that they wanted to pick the squad that they thought had the most chance of winning (hence the lack of blooding rookies en-masse that some people were calling for)?

If he makes game one next year based on form then I'm more than happy for this to be brought up again. Until that happens his selection is nothing more than a token gesture by the NSWRL and selectors which for them paid off.

Quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on these boards, and that's saying something!

Let's judge whether he was the best man for Origin 3 2007 on whether he is best for the job in 2008?!?!:crazy:

Specialist goalkickers make teams the world over - always have done. Eion Crossan, Ian Herron, Ross Conlon, Joel Caine...... mediocre players who wouldn't have made first grade or representative teams if they weren't good goal kickers. Sure in the end its important but unless the contribute then they are carrying a player for the sake of one skill.

Are you purposely trying to help my argument?

The reason that mediocre players who can kick goals rise above the pack is because it is a valuable skill, which should be taken into consideration in selection rooms. How hard is that to comprehend?

El Masri has more than one skill. Watch the replay and you'll see some pretty good defence.

Thankfully for the selectors they were vindicated in the end.... shame they couldn't have been a little more adventurous in the first few games. I suppose one from three is reasonable odds....

I agree. They should have been more adventurous in the early games. They should have had the guts to not pick Lyon and pick Hazem from the off.

As for alternative selections as wingers first and foremost - Michael Robertson and Chris Hicks, Nathan Merritt, Josh Morris, Adam MacDougall. All in as good if not better form than that of El Masri and would have been just as capable of contributing..... outside of only one area - goalkicking.

Disregarding the fact that your last sentence totally ruins your argument (why would goalkicking not be taken into account), not one of those players is a stand-out. Quite frankly, some of them are laughable (Hicks, a 30 year old of no note who is going overseas next year, Macdougall a has-been, Morris a rookie who has enough on his plate in club games). Merritt is the only one who could challenge, but he has his weaknesses too.

So, given that NONE of them are stand-outs, shouldn't Hazem's goalkicking win it for him?

 

[Bazal]

He was picked to do a job, and he did the job.

And he filled in well. But that's all he should ever do, fill in for the better players. You don't play Origin to "do a job"...you play Origin because you are the best in your state and respective position, and have the ability to win a game. He fulfills neither category. He kicks goals, thats it....

 

[B-Tron 3000]

:lol:

Gidley - playing fullback or five eight, came on at hooker.
Bird - playing lock, played the game at 5/8.
King, played his entire Origin career until last night on the wing while at club level has played the past three seasons in the centres.

Players adapt.

Players adapt if they are able.

Gidley did nothing. His selection on the bench is a total misuse of his main attribute - energy for 80 mins. He has been playing dummy-half at times for Newcastle anyway.

Bird has played 5/8 for the Sharks, and many 5/8's play like locks now anyway.

King was a joke at wing.

Luke Burt, as much as I love the guy, cannot play wing at a high level nowadays. I don't know if you've noticed, but in the last year or two one of the main concerns for wingers has become judging when to come in and wrap up the centre and/or second-man runner. Burt's defensive frailties make him a liablity in the wing position these days.

Suggesting Burt could have done as good a job as El Masri is a desperate measure to defend a terrible point of view (that point of view being that El Masri shouldn't have been picked) that has been proven wrong by the one thing that matters - the scoreboard.

 

[strider]

OK ... everyone - out the back of the sheds after school - we'll settle this once and for all

:lol: :lol:

 

[Bazal]

I'll be there strides

 

[fish eel]

I'd be there if I could get a friggin' train to get me there lol.

I wanna see Colonel and B Tron duke it out

 

[The Colonel]

Suggesting Burt could have done as good a job as El Masri is a desperate measure to defend a terrible point of view (that point of view being that El Masri shouldn't have been picked) that has been proven wrong by the one thing that matters - the scoreboard.

He was picked and he did a job. I still believe it was nothing more than a token gesture from the selectors and also it probably comes down to, as you yourself suggest, there really being no one else left to fill the role.

Was it the outstanding job people would have us believe or was it something another winger could have done just as well? I suppose we'll never know.

 

[fish eel]

He was picked and he did a job. I still believe it was nothing more than a token gesture from the selectors and also it probably comes down to, as you yourself suggest, there really being no one else left to fill the role.

that would mean, in the circumstances, he was the best man for the job, and it wasnt a token ;-) :lol:

 

[B-Tron 3000]

Other than kicking some goals and falling on a loose ball...what did he do?

Were you guys watching the same game as me?

On at least three occasions he snuffed out dangerous overlaps, something that the RHS defence failed to do in games one and two, remember?

Solid is not what Origin is about,

Solid is EXACTLY what Origin is about.
Otherwise, why is Bird our 5/8 and not the real Cronulla 5/8 Adam Dykes? Why is Bowen not picked more regularly for Qld? Shaun Timmins was quite possibly the most "solid" (read: boring) 5/8 in the history of Origin, but he won us some games. There are many more examples of solid players making Origin and exciting ones not, but I couldn't be bothered thinking about them all.

I mean, if they picked Merritt and he let three tries through him imagine the uproar!

although with the sanitary and often boring nature of the contest these days I can see why people are jumping up and down about that mediocre performance

Mediocre? Jesus. What do you want him to do? Score 4 tries and turn every player inside out every time he runs the ball.

Not everyone is Jarryd Hayne.

As Fish says - Hazem had a role. He did it.

 

[Bigfella]

He was picked and he did a job

He was picked as a token gesture, and rewarded ther selectors by making a token effort.

:lol:

 

[Bigfella]

What's the world coming to anyway? When did the Parra forum become a venue for defending Bulldogs players?

Troll behaviour B-Tron.

Are you Smartman under a new user name?

 

[fish eel]

What's the world coming to anyway? When did the Parra forum become a venue for defending Bulldogs players?

Troll behaviour B-Tron.

Are you Smartman under a new user name?

well, while I think he did OK and justified his selection, I'm thinking b tron is a blood relative!

 

[Bigfella]

You should see the whackjob bulldog supporters in the Origin Forum!

They are declaring hasem man of the series ...

 

[Bazal]

Were you guys watching the same game as me?

On at least three occasions he snuffed out dangerous overlaps, something that the RHS defence failed to do in games one and two, remember?

Did you miss the part where he was defending against Shaun Berrigan...you know, the hooker they had to shift to the wing?

Solid is EXACTLY what Origin is about.
Otherwise, why is Bird our 5/8 and not the real Cronulla 5/8 Adam Dykes? Why is Bowen not picked more regularly for Qld? Shaun Timmins was quite possibly the most "solid" (read: boring) 5/8 in the history of Origin, but he won us some games. There are many more examples of solid players making Origin and exciting ones not, but I couldn't be bothered thinking about them all.

bullsh*t! You have absolutely no idea what Origin is about. It's about the Grothes, the Lewis', the Kennys and the Sterlings and the Stuarts and the Daleys and the Johns and the Lockyers. It's about the best players in the country going head to head, taking no prisoners and showcasing their brilliance in an effort to make their state the best. Solid has no place in that arena, and the fact that the best players aren't picked is EXACTLY why NSW lost the series this year and last.

Mediocre? Jesus. What do you want him to do? Score 4 tries and turn every player inside out every time he runs the ball.

Not everyone is Jarryd Hayne.

As Fish says - Hazem had a role. He did it.

How about have an impact that extends beyond kicking a few goals and falling on a loose footy?

 

[B-Tron 3000]

Did you miss the part where he was defending against Shaun Berrigan...you know, the hooker they had to shift to the wing?

It makes no difference who is on the wing when you come in and take the centre ball and all.

bullsh*t! You have absolutely no idea what Origin is about. It's about the Grothes, the Lewis', the Kennys and the Sterlings and the Stuarts and the Daleys and the Johns and the Lockyers. It's about the best players in the country going head to head, taking no prisoners and showcasing their brilliance in an effort to make their state the best. Solid has no place in that arena, and the fact that the best players aren't picked is EXACTLY why NSW lost the series this year and last.

Lol. Of course none of these players ever played with solid players around them, did they? And all of them were solid themselves.

Name me a replacement with their abilities and I'll accept defeat.

And don't say Eric Grothe Jnr, because he a) can't kick goals, and b) has glaring weaknesses in his game.

 

[strider]

geez - where were u all - i waited behind the sheds in the f'n cold wind for an hour and no one turned up

 

[Bazal]

That's rich. "Hey, name me a replacement, but you can't say the guy who is the second best winger in the game" :lol: Are you always this dumb or is your brain on a coffee break? Look, it's obvious you have a hard on for Hazem, but this is just stupid.

How about Nathan Merrit? He's just as bad a winger as Hazem, but he has pace and can kick goals. (By the way, I was unaware that Origin wingers had to be able to kick goals. Guess you learn something new every day :roll

 

[hineyrulz]

Hazem did the job he was excpected last nite and did it well. That is to kick goals and be solid in defense. But in all honesty old Haz got a get out of jail free card when Ingils limped off, who knows what my of happened if he had of stayed out there.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

That's rich. "Hey, name me a replacement, but you can't say the guy who is the second best winger in the game" :lol: Are you always this dumb or is your brain on a coffee break?

Sorry, I should have let you say Grothe so I could pick apart your answer.

Are you going to sit there and confidently tell me that Grothe would have snuffed out those chances that Hazem did?

I doubt there's a Parra fan out there that is confident Eric could do that.

Also, Grothe can't kick goals.

Look, it's obvious you have a hard on for Hazem, but this is just stupid.

I have no favouritism for Hazem over anyone else, but Yes, this is stupid. How is it possible that we are still arguing about a guy who nearly everyone else is claiming had a great game. Could it be because this is the Parra forum and everyone wanted Grothe to get a run?

How about Nathan Merrit? He's just as bad a winger as Hazem, but he has pace and can kick goals.

I think Merritt has a case that is better than most. He's the only name mentioned that I think could have got a jersey ahead of Hazem. If they had gone that way then I would have had no problems.
I think the selectors are worried about his defence though, and I doubt he would have made all the right decisions like Hazem.

(By the way, I was unaware that Origin wingers had to be able to kick goals. Guess you learn something new every day :roll

Well, maybe you should read the f**king thread properly to get a grasp of what we are actually talking about.



btw, you talk about State of Origin being "The best players showcasing their brilliance". Doesn't Hazem's ability to kick pressure goals from the sideline count as something worth watching?

I'm off to watch the FOX replay. Will report back later. If I've changes my opinion I won't mind admitting it.