Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Perth Red]

No ones relocating or going bust, its daydream time. Even Tigers have a strong supporter base, full corporate sponsorship portfolio and rich LC backing. Why would they move? And NRL hasnt the balls or vision to try and move someone.

 

[gallagher]

No ones relocating or going bust, its daydream time. Even Tigers have a strong supporter base, full corporate sponsorship portfolio and rich LC backing. Why would they move? And NRL hasnt the balls or vision to try and move someone.

Fans and sponsors can fall away pretty quickly though and Wests Ashfield has lost interest in funding the club previously. Both Tigers and magpies.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Roosters or Rabbitohs won't relocate with the new SFS nearly completed. They probably also have the biggest sponsorship deals of Sydney clubs and get a certain level of prestige being in central Sydney.

Manly, Sharks and Panthers grounds all getting upgrades so they won't be moving.

Eels have Bankwest.

That leaves the Tigers, Dragons and Bulldogs.
Tigers are probably under the pump more than anyone and if they get the spoon this year then talk about their future could get interesting... Problem is they are actually a very popular club in Sydney and have the potential to get big crowds if they were finishing top 4.

Wests Tigers do have supporters, but they're tied with the Balmain side of the merger in the Leichhardt region. What they need is a large fanbase in Macarthur to play out of a boutique 25k to 30k stadium. There doesn't seem to be much evidence of that ever happening.

Will the Balmain side of the fanbase remain stable as the older generation dies off, or will it dwindle down to the level of the Magpies?

Are the Sharks getting an upgrade to Endeavour, or is it just an expansion of the Leagues Club?

Manly look safe if they can get Brookvale renovated.

Roosters and Rabbitohs need to be playing out of SFS.

Dragons are in limbo, just like the Tigers. Wollongong isn't strong enough to support a team of its own and the old St George region is falling behind due to its low population and changing demographics.

 

[Perth Red]

Fans and sponsors can fall away pretty quickly though and Wests Ashfield has lost interest in funding the club previously. Both Tigers and magpies.

You could pretty much say the same for any LC or privately owned club. Very few clubs have football club operational revenue sufficient enough to buffer them through hard times. Playing hypotheticals may be fun but its nonsense really.

 

[Perth Red]

Wests Tigers do have supporters, but they're tied with the Balmain side of the merger in the Leichhardt region. What they need is a large fanbase in Macarthur to play out of a boutique 25k to 30k stadium. There doesn't seem to be much evidence of that ever happening.

Will the Balmain side of the fanbase remain stable as the older generation dies off, or will it dwindle down to the level of the Magpies?

Are the Sharks getting an upgrade to Endeavour, or is it just an expansion of the Leagues Club?

Manly look safe if they can get Brookvale renovated.

Roosters and Rabbitohs need to be playing out of SFS.

Dragons are in limbo, just like the Tigers. Wollongong isn't strong enough to support a team of its own and the old St George region is falling behind due to its low population and changing demographics.

If the game is going to become just a tv product, which is where its been heading since 1997, then bite the bullet and make it one. Doesnt matter then what stadiums clubs have got or how many paying customers they have, up the NRL grant to $20mill a year from the tv revenue and stop worrying about clubs fanbases if all that matters is eyes on tv and gambling revenue, which is all the NRL seem to care about.

 

[gallagher]

You could pretty much say the same for any LC or privately owned club. Very few clubs have football club operational revenue sufficient enough to buffer them through hard times. Playing hypotheticals may be fun but its nonsense really.

All im saying is Wests Asfield have done it before.

 

[Perth Red]

All im saying is Wests Asfield have done it before.

Read an interesting article by the Panthers group the other day saying they expect pokie machine use to half or more in the next 2 decades and how they are now investing in non gambling related revenue generation opportunities for future proofing. I think as the oldies die out and the newbies are gambling online the days of the traditional LC are numbered and any NRL club relying on $1-5mill a year from them to cover their losses could be in strife.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If the game is going to become just a tv product, which is where its been heading since 1997, then bite the bullet and make it one. Doesnt matter then what stadiums clubs have got or how many paying customers they have, up the NRL grant to $20mill a year from the tv revenue and stop worrying about clubs fanbases if all that matters is eyes on tv and gambling revenue, which is all the NRL seem to care about.

If it's about TV ratings then a few Sydney clubs are in the firing line for relocation or extinction.

Melbourne draw better ratings than most Sydney clubs. An argument could be made that new teams in Adelaide and Perth will increase viewership.

 

[Perth Red]

Have to be very careful relying on the tv data. We do not have any genuine comparison studies that look at time slot and club and opposition and how they are travelling. For example its not surprising you are going to be the most viewed club if most of your games are on FTA, or in the most popular PTV viewing slot or your playing a hyped derby game. Also its not surprising that the games that feature the clubs that are at the top of the table are generally watched more than the bottom placed clubs in any given season.

You'd need a more much rigorous data analysis before being able to say which clubs are most valuable when it comes to TV. Stick Broncos on the Saturday afternoon PTV only slot for example and see how their ratings fall off a cliff.

I'd suggest 80-90% of a tv audience for most games are neutrals therefore those factors become more important than the club itself.

 

[MugaB]

Have to be very careful relying on the tv data. We do not have any genuine comparison studies that look at time slot and club and opposition and how they are travelling. For example its not surprising you are going to be the most viewed club if most of your games are on FTA, or in the most popular PTV viewing slot or your playing a hyped derby game. Also its not surprising that the games that feature the clubs that are at the top of the table are generally watched more than the bottom placed clubs in any given season.

You'd need a more much rigorous data analysis before being able to say which clubs are most valuable when it comes to TV. Stick Broncos on the Saturday afternoon PTV only slot for example and see how their ratings fall off a cliff.

I'd suggest 80-90% of a tv audience for most games are neutrals therefore those factors become more important than the club itself.

Yep win a GF, and you end up with bugger all saturday games, or win a spoon and stay on the late sunday arvo slot... looking at you doggies

 

[Perth Red]

Yep win a GF, and you end up with bugger all saturday games, or win a spoon and stay on the late sunday arvo slot... looking at you doggies

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Yep win a GF, and you end up with bugger all saturday games, or win a spoon and stay on the late sunday arvo slot... looking at you doggies

ne of our biggest problems, tv dictates when games will be played not the nrl. If it was up to the nrl you’d hope the scheduling would be a hell of a lot better for the fans of the clubs playing.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Have to be very careful relying on the tv data. We do not have any genuine comparison studies that look at time slot and club and opposition and how they are travelling. For example its not surprising you are going to be the most viewed club if most of your games are on FTA, or in the most popular PTV viewing slot or your playing a hyped derby game. Also its not surprising that the games that feature the clubs that are at the top of the table are generally watched more than the bottom placed clubs in any given season.

You'd need a more much rigorous data analysis before being able to say which clubs are most valuable when it comes to TV. Stick Broncos on the Saturday afternoon PTV only slot for example and see how their ratings fall off a cliff.

I'd suggest 80-90% of a tv audience for most games are neutrals therefore those factors become more important than the club itself.

The data I'm referring to takes all of this into consideration and only compares pay TV viewing numbers. The most watched teams on Foxtel over the last few years have been Melbourne, South Sydney, Brisbane, Parramatta, North Queensland and Western Sydney. Broncos, Cowboys and Tigers have been at the foot of the premiership ladder during this period, but still rated well. Penrith and Sydney didn't rate as well, despite having a great deal of on field success.

The Season that Was...2020 - NRL TV Ratings *updated 20/11* - Sports Industry AU

The 2020 NRL season totaled 70.2 million viewers across the Nine Network and Foxleague, up 0.35% on the first 20 rounds of 2019, but down 20.4% on the 2019 total. More matches were played compared to the first 20 rounds of last year, leading to an average of 439,000, down 4.6% on the first 20...

www.footyindustry.com

 

[Perth Red]

The data I'm referring to takes all of this into consideration and only compares pay TV viewing numbers. The most watched teams on Foxtel over the last few years have been Brisbane, Melbourne, South Sydney, North Queensland and Parramatta. Broncos and Cowboys have been at the foot of the premiership ladder during this period, but still rate well. Penrith and Sydney don't rate as well, despite having a great deal of on field success.

no it doesnt, it was a simplistic study of overall viewing by club, not by time and ladder position.. Show me data that is by team by tv slot.

For example this shows Storm most watched on PTV box top. However it doesnt show that Storm get the best PTV slots and often arent on FTA driving more people to watch them on PTV. Then factor in their success. A storm at bottom of table being shown at Friday at 6pm or Saturday afternoon aren't topping this chart!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

no it doesnt, it was a simplistic study of overall viewing by club, not by time and ladder position.. Show me data that is by team by tv slot.

For example this shows Storm most watched on PTV box top. However it doesnt show that Storm get the best PTV slots and often arent on FTA driving more people to watch them on PTV. Then factor in their success. A storm at bottom of table being shown at Friday at 6pm or Saturday afternoon aren't topping this chart!

It shows that three of the six most watched clubs finished down the bottom of the ladder, with one of them having more games broadcast on FTA than anyone else. Melbourne have a strong supporter base in Queensland. Cowboys get a fair few games on FTA as well.

I don't see the impact of FTA coverage. If you have Foxtel or Kayo then you're going to watch the ad-free Full HD broadcast on there and avoid the 1080i ad-supported crap on Ch9. It's why Broncos, Storm and Cowboys rate well on FTA and PTV, as they're watched by avid RL fans in Queensland who pay for Foxtel or Kayo as well as the casual fans in Queensland who watch on Ch9.

 

[siv]

I'd suggest 80-90% of a tv audience for most games are neutrals therefore those factors become more important than the club itself.

While fans watch other games

Many won't watch the NRL at all if their club didn't exist

Thats one thing history has told us

 

[siv]

no it doesnt, it was a simplistic study of overall viewing by club, not by time and ladder position.. Show me data that is by team by tv slot.

For example this shows Storm most watched on PTV box top. However it doesnt show that Storm get the best PTV slots and often arent on FTA driving more people to watch them on PTV. Then factor in their success. A storm at bottom of table being shown at Friday at 6pm or Saturday afternoon aren't topping this chart!

All this chart shows that there are around 3.9 viewers who watch all.games

 

[The_Frog]

The West tigers, Canterbury bulldogs and St. Georg-Illawarra dragons clubs all seem to have hit a brick wall in recent times in terms of off-field issues like having no permanent or decaying home grounds, falling/poor crowds and even identity crisis.

This leads me to the conclusion that these clubs need to either relocate or merge with other Sydney clubs or face going out of business.

What are the options?

Dragons move to Wollongong fulltime?

bulldogs merge with west magpies and play out of Liverpool?

Tigers relocate to Brisbane?

All of them have strong supporter bases that should ensure their viability long into the future. The Dragons have a tremendous junior nursery and won't be down for long, although I do think their fans have unrealistic expectations of success going back to the time when they were unassailable as the strongest club.

The Dogs largely abandoned junior development the best part of a decade ago and are trying to achieve on field success with the cheque book. Gus knows better than anyone this rarely works but he's got to do what his masters order. You have to think there'll be a plan to turn things around properly though.

The Tigers look to be a basket case and like the Dogs seem to be trying to buy success, but are mired in long-term failure on the field. I don't know the answer for them.

 

[Perth Red]

It shows that three of the six most watched clubs finished down the bottom of the ladder, with one of them having more games broadcast on FTA than anyone else. Melbourne have a strong supporter base in Queensland. Cowboys get a fair few games on FTA as well.

I don't see the impact of FTA coverage. If you have Foxtel or Kayo then you're going to watch the ad-free Full HD broadcast on there and avoid the 1080i ad-supported crap on Ch9. It's why Broncos, Storm and Cowboys rate well on FTA and PTV, as they're watched by avid RL fans in Queensland who pay for Foxtel or Kayo as well as the casual fans in Queensland who watch on Ch9.

Broncos rate well as they are in a prime PTV slot every week. Again put them on a Saturday lunchtime slot or Friday 6pm and they arent rating in top 3. In regards FTA it matters for Storm as the FTA has been so appalling in Melbourne over the years that it drove most RL fans to Fox, same as here in Perth. Likewise for Broncos they actually have less people watching on PTV as they are always on FTA so need to fork out for PTV (one of the reasons Fox has insisted on less Broncos FTA games as part of the introduction of the Dolphins)

It would be very interesting to see the break down of PTV figures by metro area. But for sure being appealing in Brisbane as well as Sydney and to lessor degree Perth and Melbourne sure does help your numbers.

 

[Perth Red]

While fans watch other games

Many won't watch the NRL at all if their club didn't exist

Thats one thing history has told us

I've heard this many times and never seen anyone able to produce definitive evidence. It may be true, it may be partly true for some or it may not be many lost to the game, no-one can show any data to prove one way or another.

 

[Iamback]

While fans watch other games

Many won't watch the NRL at all if their club didn't exist

Thats one thing history has told us

1000%.