State of Aussie RU

[taipan]

Two league players ? I think I saw 15 rugby players playing for the Tahs in the last couple of games .
It was the only first two games that Rogers and Tuqiri play above the rest . Signing league players is a risk but it also has its ups and downs .

mate Lote has been the dominant player in the Tahs this year,and Rogers when he is not out injured is not far behind,the remaining players dont bring the crowd to their feet like these 2.

Not even close. Lote hasn't outplayed ANY New Zealand winger this year. The best player for the tahs against the NZ sides has been Peter Hewat. Evan last night against the Highlanders he didn't show anything special.

Closer than you think and its not just my opinion,a lot of the union pundits in the Sydney media seem to agree on Lote and Rogers valuable contributions.Then again Lote is so ordinary that is why the ARU /Waratahs signed Lote until end 2007.
Take both of them out and see how the team performs as a whole,then I might listen.

 

[Copa]

With 164,000 rugby players in OZ I can't believe thats not enough to supply four S14 teams .



ARU report record growth
April 28, 2005

THE Australian Rugby Union (ARU) enters the second decade of professionalism of the code on the up today after reporting a year of record growth.

Figures tabled at the ARU's annual general meeting showed player numbers, Super 12 crowds, Tri-Nations television audiences, funding allocations and interest in the game in 2004 all at record levels.

After distributing $8.4 million to state and member unions around the country, the national body recorded an operating surplus of $1.8 million over the 12 months.

ARU managing director and chief executive Gary Flowers said the performance represented another exciting chapter in rugby's success story since the game went professional in 1995.

"We are in very good shape for the challenges ahead," Flowers said today.

"Not only has rugby seized the opportunities provided by hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2003, we have laid the foundations for future growth.

"There is no reason why this momentum cannot continue."

Highlights for the year included: player numbers at 164,000; six million viewers for Tri-Nations matches; and cumulative Super 12 crowds up 22 per cent on 2003.

The ARU have also pointed to a bright future through a new five-year broadcast deal with News Corp for the expanded Super 14 and Tri Nations, the establishment of the Western Force and a new Collective Bargaining Agreement with its players.

The AGM heard $18 million had been allocated for grassroots development from the RWC surplus while $20 million had been set aside for a capital management strategy.

"As those participation numbers continue to grow, the ARU must keep pace with the resources required to accommodate a game that just keeps getting bigger," Flowers said.

He paid tribute to outgoing chairman Bob Tuckey and president Peter Crittle who finished their terms today.

THat report says growth... another says the ARU have suffered a loss. The truth probably is in between??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3265693a10295,00.html

Australia released its annual report on Thursday and the news was in stark contrast to the previous year when it generated over $300m in revenue. This year it was just $75m and expenses were $79m meaning the union posted a $4.8m loss.

 

[Te Kaha]

Two league players ? I think I saw 15 rugby players playing for the Tahs in the last couple of games .
It was the only first two games that Rogers and Tuqiri play above the rest . Signing league players is a risk but it also has its ups and downs .

mate Lote has been the dominant player in the Tahs this year,and Rogers when he is not out injured is not far behind,the remaining players dont bring the crowd to their feet like these 2.

Not even close. Lote hasn't outplayed ANY New Zealand winger this year. The best player for the tahs against the NZ sides has been Peter Hewat. Evan last night against the Highlanders he didn't show anything special.

Closer than you think and its not just my opinion,a lot of the union pundits in the Sydney media seem to agree on Lote and Rogers valuable contributions.Then again Lote is so ordinary that is why the ARU /Waratahs signed Lote until end 2007.
Take both of them out and see how the team performs as a whole,then I might listen.

They have made "valuable contrabutions". but to say that lote has been the "dominant" player for the tahs is plain wrong. I will say again he has beaten ANY of his New Zealand counterparts.

 

[taipan]

I will finish my rantings,by saying you dont have to beat your opposing winger,to have an overall effect in a game,there is such things as infield defence,support play and setting up the attack ie overall involvement.Agree with one thing Hewatt has played well.
Any way I am talking about the Tahs team,not NZ teams.Just like Latham has been IMO the dominant player for the Reds.I think we are coming from different angles.Anyway for me :arrow:

 

[rugged]

Anyway for me

 

[taipan]

Anyway for me

Careful I might come back for an encore. ;-)

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Read what I said I am saying regardless of the playing numbers,the Reds have either gone backwards and still at the tail end,the Brumbies have gone backwards.Only the Waratahs have gone forward despite the growth in numbers at grassroots.Its all related- increase in playing numbers,yet only 1 Oz team has gone forward.It cant be any clearer than that. #-o
Am fully aware of the playing numbers,it has been advised before in the newspapers,after the 2004 registrations. Good on em.

Mmm, so should they try to decrease the number of players in Australia?

Also, Taipan, should the NRL not bother with expension because the Rabbitohs and some other teams are doing consistently poorly?

In regards to the NRL, the 14 Australian rugby league sides would be all amongst the top 20 rugby league sides in the world.

The top 3 rugby union sides in Australia would struggle to all be in the top 20 rugby union sides of the world. I believe some of the NPC second division sides could defeat the Queensland Reds, they have the worst scrum I've ever seen and an incapability to get the ball to their highest (and most overpaid) player in Wendall Sailor. Their whole structure is a joke.

So it shows the NRL is a strong entity as opposed to its overseas counterparts, whereas the same cannot be said of the 3 Australian super 12 sides as a whole over the history of the Super 12 as opposed to the rest of the provincial/club sides around the globe.

How does not putting another unjustified super 12 team in decrease numbers? You play because you want to play, there's no reason why the WARU couldn't have a club rugby competition over there without the Force's involvement.

The 14 NRL clubs could be the best 14 rugby league clubs in the world where there's only two Pro comps .
So if the Waratahs win this years S12 , does that mean that all the S12 teams aren't in the top 20 rugby side in the world ?
The REDS would be in the top 20 rugby club/provincial teams and can easily beat any second division rugby team in NZ .
Do you think Nelson Bay or Hawkes Bay can beat the Highlanders or Hurricanes ?

quote
Then again Lote is so ordinary that is why the ARU /Waratahs signed Lote until end 2007.

Mate you are confusing everyone here by changing your words around . What does the ARU/Tahs signing Tuqiri till 2007 got to do with his ordinary form or whatever form he is ?

 

[taipan]

Read what I said I am saying regardless of the playing numbers,the Reds have either gone backwards and still at the tail end,the Brumbies have gone backwards.Only the Waratahs have gone forward despite the growth in numbers at grassroots.Its all related- increase in playing numbers,yet only 1 Oz team has gone forward.It cant be any clearer than that. #-o
Am fully aware of the playing numbers,it has been advised before in the newspapers,after the 2004 registrations. Good on em.

Mmm, so should they try to decrease the number of players in Australia?

Also, Taipan, should the NRL not bother with expension because the Rabbitohs and some other teams are doing consistently poorly?

In regards to the NRL, the 14 Australian rugby league sides would be all amongst the top 20 rugby league sides in the world.

The top 3 rugby union sides in Australia would struggle to all be in the top 20 rugby union sides of the world. I believe some of the NPC second division sides could defeat the Queensland Reds, they have the worst scrum I've ever seen and an incapability to get the ball to their highest (and most overpaid) player in Wendall Sailor. Their whole structure is a joke.

So it shows the NRL is a strong entity as opposed to its overseas counterparts, whereas the same cannot be said of the 3 Australian super 12 sides as a whole over the history of the Super 12 as opposed to the rest of the provincial/club sides around the globe.

How does not putting another unjustified super 12 team in decrease numbers? You play because you want to play, there's no reason why the WARU couldn't have a club rugby competition over there without the Force's involvement.

The 14 NRL clubs could be the best 14 rugby league clubs in the world where there's only two Pro comps .
So if the Waratahs win this years S12 , does that mean that all the S12 teams aren't in the top 20 rugby side in the world ?
The REDS would be in the top 20 rugby club/provincial teams and can easily beat any second division rugby team in NZ .
Do you think Nelson Bay or Hawkes Bay can beat the Highlanders or Hurricanes ?

quote
Then again Lote is so ordinary that is why the ARU /Waratahs signed Lote until end 2007.

Mate you are confusing everyone here by changing your words around . What does the ARU/Tahs signing Tuqiri till 2007 got to do with his ordinary form or whatever form he is ?

](*,) youve lost me on that one PW.He is not in ordinary form this year for starters,he was signed by the ARU because he was one of the best wingers in world union.tThere is a connection there old son.
I dont think I am confusing anyone on this board,they are reasonably intelligent persons from my observations.Changing my words around what the ? I have stated my thoughts you can agree or disagree,its not a crime buddy.

 

[Iafeta]

Read what I said I am saying regardless of the playing numbers,the Reds have either gone backwards and still at the tail end,the Brumbies have gone backwards.Only the Waratahs have gone forward despite the growth in numbers at grassroots.Its all related- increase in playing numbers,yet only 1 Oz team has gone forward.It cant be any clearer than that. #-o
Am fully aware of the playing numbers,it has been advised before in the newspapers,after the 2004 registrations. Good on em.

Mmm, so should they try to decrease the number of players in Australia?

Also, Taipan, should the NRL not bother with expension because the Rabbitohs and some other teams are doing consistently poorly?

In regards to the NRL, the 14 Australian rugby league sides would be all amongst the top 20 rugby league sides in the world.

The top 3 rugby union sides in Australia would struggle to all be in the top 20 rugby union sides of the world. I believe some of the NPC second division sides could defeat the Queensland Reds, they have the worst scrum I've ever seen and an incapability to get the ball to their highest (and most overpaid) player in Wendall Sailor. Their whole structure is a joke.

So it shows the NRL is a strong entity as opposed to its overseas counterparts, whereas the same cannot be said of the 3 Australian super 12 sides as a whole over the history of the Super 12 as opposed to the rest of the provincial/club sides around the globe.

How does not putting another unjustified super 12 team in decrease numbers? You play because you want to play, there's no reason why the WARU couldn't have a club rugby competition over there without the Force's involvement.

The 14 NRL clubs could be the best 14 rugby league clubs in the world where there's only two Pro comps .
So if the Waratahs win this years S12 , does that mean that all the S12 teams aren't in the top 20 rugby side in the world ?
The REDS would be in the top 20 rugby club/provincial teams and can easily beat any second division rugby team in NZ .
Do you think Nelson Bay or Hawkes Bay can beat the Highlanders or Hurricanes ?

quote
Then again Lote is so ordinary that is why the ARU /Waratahs signed Lote until end 2007.

Mate you are confusing everyone here by changing your words around . What does the ARU/Tahs signing Tuqiri till 2007 got to do with his ordinary form or whatever form he is ?

I would give some of those second division sides in New Zealand even money to beat the Reds, or I'd give those sides 7 points head start. I wouldn't think a belting, as you might expect would be on the cards. Nelson Bays for instance have Rico Gear in their squad. Hawkes Bay has a history of bringing through All Blacks like the Cooper brothers, Taine Randell etc. Nelson Bays would not beat the Highlanders or Hurricanes though, which stands to reason, as neither would Queensland. Canterbury, Otago, Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, and possibly Bay of Plenty/North Harbour alone (as in NPC structure, not Super 12 franchise structure) would account for Queensland in my opinion.

There are two major professional competitions in the world at a franchise level. The Zurich Premiership, and the Super 12. Queensland would not make the top 20, rest well assured of that. Neither would about 3 of the South African sides.

Therein lies beating your argument, the top 12 clubs- the equivalent of the super 12 numbers, could all be in the top 20 clubs in the world. Like union, just looking at the two major franchise championships. Therefore, there's proof in terms of player equality that expansion would be viable in Australian rugby league. Whereas in Australia, Queensland would certainly not be in the top 20, neither would 3 South African sides at least, so to move forward without stabilising weak areas, infact crushing them further is not a justifiable move on player strength figures (remembering your original player numbers figure).

There are some quite good Zurich Premiership sides that I'm confident would wipe the carpet with Queensland. They are not top 20 material. They are a weak side. And adding another team to compete and raid their player ranks is only going to send them further down the table.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

So the top professional competitions in the rugby world is Zurich Premiership and the Super 12 . So why is the top two clubs in Europe are both from France ?

The top two major competitions in world rugby is the European cup and Super 12 . And the Zurich Premiership , NPC , Celtic League , Currie Cup and France Top 16 are not far behind .
The REDS are their own worst enemy but to compare them with Nelson Bay and Hawkes Bay is like saying that Marist/Richmond Brothers can beat the NZ Warriors .
Two Super 12 teams from South Africa tour Engalnd for preseason games against Zurich Premiership sides who were well into the middle of their rugby season .
The South African S12 teams gave their Zurich Premiership teams both hidings .

Hawkes Bays schools (Te Aute , Napier , Hastings , Lindesfarne ) are some of the best rugby schools in NZ .
So as the Taranaki schools(New Plymouths Boys) , Manuwatu (Palmerston Norths Boys, Hato Paora) and Bay Of Plenty schools (Rotorua Boys , Western Heights , Tauranga Boys )
But most of those kids end up in University or club rugby in the big cities .

 

[Iafeta]

So the top professional competitions in the rugby world is Zurich Premiership and the Super 12 . So why is the top two clubs in Europe are both from France ?

The top two major competitions in world rugby is the European cup and Super 12 . And the Zurich Premiership , NPC , Celtic League , Currie Cup and France Top 16 are not far behind .
The REDS are their own worst enemy but to compare them with Nelson Bay and Hawkes Bay is like saying that Marist/Richmond Brothers can beat the NZ Warriors .
Two Super 12 teams from South Africa tour Engalnd for preseason games against Zurich Premiership sides who were well into the middle of their rugby season .
The South African S12 teams gave their Zurich Premiership teams both hidings .

Hawkes Bays schools (Te Aute , Napier , Hastings , Lindesfarne ) are some of the best rugby schools in NZ .
So as the Taranaki schools(New Plymouths Boys) , Manuwatu (Palmerston Norths Boys, Hato Paora) and Bay Of Plenty schools (Rotorua Boys , Western Heights , Tauranga Boys )
But most of those kids end up in University or club rugby in the big cities .

How is comparing Marist Richmond v the Warriors the same as Nelson Bays v Queensland? Nelson Bays WOULD more than likely win, Marist Richmond would not.

 

[fieldo]

Queensland are ordinary and once Perth get all there players they will be the worst team in Australia and Perth will be second worst .........but they will never be as bad/boring as some of those SA teams.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Nelson Bay would have the same chance of beating the REDS as Marist/Richmond has of upsetting the Warriors .

Sorry fieldo but I can't read the future like you do but if you have been watching the Bulls and Stormers games lately .
They have been more exciting to watch than some of the game played in OZ and NZ . Do you not support the new S14 team in Perth ?

 

[fieldo]

Yes can't wait to they get going.....but they wont be as good as the NSW and the Brumbies and since i don't have Fux Tel anymore how can you see any games as channel seven don't show them or anyone else.

Two SA teams must have improved on last year on the otherwise boring teams they have had in the past......is NZ teams that boring....jesus I hope not.

Word has it thet we will have 7 super twelve games next year and 4 NRL games with penrith and Newcastle on in the pre-season..

I think union made a mistake playing at Subiaco.

 

[Iafeta]

Nelson Bay would have the same chance of beating the REDS as Marist/Richmond has of upsetting the Warriors .

Sorry fieldo but I can't read the future like you do but if you have been watching the Bulls and Stormers games lately .
They have been more exciting to watch than some of the game played in OZ and NZ . Do you not support the new S14 team in Perth ?

Upsetting??

It wouldn't be an upset for Nelson Bays to beat Queensland. It'd be true to form.

They have the worst loosehead prop (I cannot believe the guy was picked for Australia) in the history of rugby. His scrummaging is atrocious, and he adds nothing in the loose. THATS the crux of their woes, right there. But Styles is played out as a champion.

See, this is where you get it all wrong, some of the Yarpie sides have been "more exciting" than the NZ teams? See, its a two edged sword, attack, and defence, and they don't get close to the NZ team's defence.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Has a S12 side ever played a match against a team outside the S12 - such as another club team? Has there ever been a game between a S12 team and a NH club?

 

[rugged]

The Waratahs played in South America before trials this year I think.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Wayne Bennet comments on Sailor and Tuqiri:

Del and Lote are wasted: Bennett

Monday, May 9, 2005

Rugby union is wasting two of its highest-paid entertainers by starving wingers Wendell Sailor and Lote Tuqiri of the football, their former Broncos rugby league coach Wayne Bennett believes.

"I can't believe two wonderful players get such little ball," Bennett said after watching them oppose each other on Friday night.

"It wouldn't happen in my footy team . . . I'd get rid of a lot of other guys to make sure they got the ball. [As a coach] I couldn't have them playing at that level and not seeing the football.

"They're both great entertainers, but they need the football.

"They've got great attitudes and I'd just like to see them with the ball in their hands more."


Rugby union splurged more than $1 million on each player to lure them away from league.

Sailor, the first to switch codes for a record salary package in 2001, and Tuqiri, who also received a princely sum to jump ship, have both become dual internationals.

Rugby experts are likely to dismiss Bennett's opinions because the two games are vastly different.

However, both players enjoy injecting themselves into games and Sailor has been particularly outspoken about the lack of ball he receives on the flank.

 

[bayrep]

I agree with Bennet especiallt regarding Sailor. Every time Sailor got the ball he makes ground and the Reds have wasted his talent. Tuqiri is in a better setup and does see alot more ball and if he doesnt he usually goes looking for it. The game game plan by both teams didnt suit either play. The Tahs were nervious and it showed in how they played the game the Reds were just crap and need to start from scratch when it comes to game plans they arent playing to their strengths.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Has a S12 side ever played a match against a team outside the S12 - such as another club team? Has there ever been a game between a S12 team and a NH club?

For the last three years South African teams have played English clubs for pre season games and thrash them .
When Auckland Blues won the the S12 back in 1997(not sure of the year) they play Brive of france who won the European Cup and the Blues also thrash them .