Stuffing ?

[pmarrow]

Read this thread and if still then you don't understand the reasons as to why NRL teams don't win the WCC and some field a bunch of PL players then you will need to read it again



Your teams play that amount of games but your players don't!

Last year WTS had players who played 28 games in the season that included 2 byes and doesn't include the rep matches either (city/country/Kiwi and Aus matches)

Fatts I know played around 35 games in a season

How many of the ESL players have played 37 game let alone 29 during last season

I don't have a stat for every team, I have a stat somewhere for the Hull squad but off the top of my head I think 5/6 played 30+ games and about 10-15 players had played 20+ games.

Give me some time and I'll get that stat for you.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

I don't have a stat for every team, I have a stat somewhere for the Hull squad but off the top of my head I think 5/6 played 30+ games and about 10-15 players had played 20+ games.

Give me some time and I'll get that stat for you.

I think you will find more at least double the amount of players that played 20+ games that you think did in the ESL played 20+ games in the NRL

That point you made is incorrect and you will find more games played by NRL players overall than what you will find by players in the ESL let alone on aggregate for the whole season per player

 

[pmarrow]

I think you will find more at least double the amount of players that played 20+ games that you think did in the ESL played 20+ games in the NRL

That point you made is incorrect and you will find more games played by NRL players overall than what you will find by players in the ESL let alone on aggregate for the whole season per player

Not really cockle, we have the challenge cup and obviousley our own international fixtures to fulfill.

Anyhow you have more teams in your division so they probably will be more players overall who will have played more games. :roll:

As for your first sentence then that maybe the case, still won't change the fact that most of them tell us its harder over here. Either way they all prefer playing over here even if its for the atmosphere, I quote Richard Swain when he says "I've played at some of the highest levels in the game and not one of those games can compare to the atmospheres I've expierenced over here".

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Not really cockle, we have the challenge cup and obviousley our own international fixtures to fulfill.

It is or it isn't make your mind up jebrone

Anyhow you have more teams in your division so they probably will be more players overall who will have played more games. :roll:

That backs my point up and throughs yours out of the water - once again showing you don't have a clue what your talking about

As for your first sentence then that maybe the case, still won't change the fact that most of them tell us its harder over here. Either way they all prefer playing over here even if its for the atmosphere, I quote Richard Swain when he says "I've played at some of the highest levels in the game and not one of those games can compare to the atmospheres I've expierenced over here".

Gee Whiz what a surprise funny that Morley said the same about the NRL and so has Smith and Best - but we all know players build up the compition they are playing in now don't we perfect use of this is Johns!

ESL isn't the best league in the rigby league world which is why most NRL players go over there after years in the NRL system and why the top line pommie players want to try there hand in the NRL to see how they good they really are!

 

[pmarrow]

It is or it isn't make your mind up jebrone

Obviouisley watch the WWE then ? Must be a sad merkin....

That backs my point up and throughs yours out of the water - once again showing you don't have a clue what your talking about

Just read it and your right it does, my mistake fair do's.

Gee Whiz what a surprise funny that Morley said the same about the NRL and so has Smith and Best - but we all know players build up the compition they are playing in now don't we perfect use of this is Johns!

I watch plenty of NRL games and the atmospheres are dead, its like watching a funeral at times. When it comes to creating an atmosphere us Brits do it best.

ESL isn't the best league in the rigby league world which is why most NRL players go over there after years in the NRL system and why the top line pommie players want to try there hand in the NRL to see how they good they really are!

Nobody is saying its the best, my whole arguement started because yet another Aussie who thinks they have the right to put everything non Australian down. I would agree more people would probably prefer watching your League but its a fact that the SL is improving very very fast and it won't be long til we are on the same level.....well not on International level anyway (we don't want to push it) ;-)

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Obviouisley watch the WWE then ? Must be a sad merkin....

Can't stand the WWE crap, if it was that or nothing I wouldn't have the TV on!

Just read it and your right it does, my mistake fair do's.

NP

I watch plenty of NRL games and the atmospheres are dead, its like watching a funeral at times. When it comes to creating an atmosphere us Brits do it best.

Atmosphere is squat, but the Brits do it best in all various sports along with the welsh

Nobody is saying its the best, my whole arguement started because yet another Aussie who thinks they have the right to put everything non Australian down. I would agree more people would probably prefer watching your League but its a fact that the SL is improving very very fast and it won't be long til we are on the same level.....well not on International level anyway (we don't want to push it) ;-)

I agree the SL has improved in leaps and bounds over the years but the main problem still remains with the ESL which in turn reflects onto the National team and that is they still are relying on a large % of players from the NRL coming accross to make up the numbers.

Yes sure you have a few (minor) amount of players which would star in the NRL week in week out and have also recruited some NRL players who can do the same and there are also some bloody good Kiwis playing there as well, but the problem remains that until the junior structure and recruitment structure do not get amended then New Zealand and Australia will continue to remain a few steps ahead

I don't have the same foresight as you do regarding the National team let alone the ESL unless some junior and recruitment changes are made soon

 

[pmarrow]

I agree the SL has improved in leaps and bounds over the years but the main problem still remains with the ESL which in turn reflects onto the National team and that is they still are relying on a large % of players from the NRL coming accross to make up the numbers.

Hmmm, depends on what you mean by relying ? Teams at the bottom of the table seem to rely on a lot of off quota Aussies / kiwis but the teams at the top seem to only sniff around the star Aussie players now a days. In 2003 I know Hull had 10 overseas players and in 2006 the number has gradually been dropping each season and is now down to 5. Barring London, Les Cats ( who are intropducing a number of good French players to the game) and Castleford I'd reckon most would have seen the number of there overseas imports trimmed down.

Although I will admit, it may still be a problem due to some youngsters being overseen for the Aussies. Still its not all bad, last year we signed Stephen Kearney for just one year and I can say it was worth it, his presence at the club lifted the players on match days and many of the young players said they had learned a lot from him.

Yes sure you have a few (minor) amount of players which would star in the NRL week in week out and have also recruited some NRL players who can do the same and there are also some bloody good Kiwis playing there as well, but the problem remains that until the junior structure and recruitment structure do not get amended then New Zealand and Australia will continue to remain a few steps ahead

The work that has gone into making the above happen is imense, its taking its time but things are always being introduced and working to help the development of the youngsters in the British game.

Now almost most teams have the funding to run Under 16's, Under 18's and Under 21's teams. Just over 4 years ago the most quota players you could have in your squad was 5 and that has now gone down to just 3, the new problem now is the Kolpak ruling. Which is allowing clubs to sign more overseas players and not let it affect there quota.

The other problem we face is the promotion and relegation issue, whilst its hard for British sport to go on without it for the benefit of Rugby League in this country it could prove to be the way forward. Ok so we may lose the factor of every team having something to play for but it will give more Youngsters the chance. You put yourself in a coaches shoes, your facing relegation and your teams lacking a decent half back. Do you take the chance of playing a Youngster or do you go for an expiernced proven Aussie, the coach will always take that latter option. Where as if we didn't have relegation and the team had nothing to play for the coach would more then likely give his youngster the chance to shine.

I don't have the same foresight as you do regarding the National team let alone the ESL unless some junior and recruitment changes are made soon

Tha national team is a joke, we have the talent in Super League to create a decent National team and one I believe would run both of you all the way. The trouble is these talents are ignored and the GB coaching staff will always pick the same old failures who have lots of expierence at international level (and losing may I add).

Theres nothing wrong with the Junior structure at the clubs as proved over the last couple of years with our Schoolboys beating New Zealand and yourselfs in test series. Its just giving them the chance to step up that level froma junior to a full time pro which in past years they haven't been given that chance. More SL teams though are giving them youngsters Full time contracts each season and IMO it won't be long til we see a good crop of British talent in the game.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

Hmmm, depends on what you mean by relying ? Teams at the bottom of the table seem to rely on a lot of off quota Aussies / kiwis but the teams at the top seem to only sniff around the star Aussie players now a days. In 2003 I know Hull had 10 overseas players and in 2006 the number has gradually been dropping each season and is now down to 5. Barring London, Les Cats ( who are intropducing a number of good French players to the game) and Castleford I'd reckon most would have seen the number of there overseas imports trimmed down.

My mistake should have worded it better

I think even 5 players shipped from the NRL in the starting 17 IMO is the problem they have and until this stops and they develope the teams around talent shipped directly to their league and not via the NRL then I don't think the ESL would ever be considered in the same league as the NRL

I can see the argument that some say "but if NRL players come over wouldn't that make our league stronger" well it would if the majority of those players joined when in their prime and not at the end of their careers - something that unfortunatley is still occuring

Had for instance Benji, Johns and Lockyer all joined the ESL after 1-2yrs in the NRL that might be a different story but they didn't and hardly any of our or NZ's junior talent coming through the ranks even think about joining the ESL because they want to compete in the best compition in their eyes being the NRL

Although I will admit, it may still be a problem due to some youngsters being overseen for the Aussies. Still its not all bad, last year we signed Stephen Kearney for just one year and I can say it was worth it, his presence at the club lifted the players on match days and many of the young players said they had learned a lot from him.

The work that has gone into making the above happen is imense, its taking its time but things are always being introduced and working to help the development of the youngsters in the British game.

Now almost most teams have the funding to run Under 16's, Under 18's and Under 21's teams. Just over 4 years ago the most quota players you could have in your squad was 5 and that has now gone down to just 3, the new problem now is the Kolpak ruling. Which is allowing clubs to sign more overseas players and not let it affect there quota.

I have no doubt that some players who do come accross from the NRL do assist in the development of others by increasing performance/outlook on professionalism within Rugby League as I'm certain Buckets will do that this year

Regarding the junior development structure well I think that is best left for another day, it is in shambels and the funding that should be there isn't but this isn't the place to vent those frustrations

The other problem we face is the promotion and relegation issue, whilst its hard for British sport to go on without it for the benefit of Rugby League in this country it could prove to be the way forward. Ok so we may lose the factor of every team having something to play for but it will give more Youngsters the chance. You put yourself in a coaches shoes, your facing relegation and your teams lacking a decent half back. Do you take the chance of playing a Youngster or do you go for an expiernced proven Aussie, the coach will always take that latter option. Where as if we didn't have relegation and the team had nothing to play for the coach would more then likely give his youngster the chance to shine.

relegation/promotion isn't designed for league unless the development structure is right and springing with talent

At the moment Rugby league in general doesn't have the volumes of players required to fill the full playing squad quota for the NRL/ESL teams combined and if you don't have this full quota how in the hell do they expect a relegation/promotion system to operate successfully?

The ESL should scrap this for the time being and concentrate on making their comipition simular to the NRL's and make it as even and wide open as it possibly can, when this occurs then maybe view for a relegation system but at the moment it is one major problem in the ESL

Tha national team is a joke, we have the talent in Super League to create a decent National team and one I believe would run both of you all the way. The trouble is these talents are ignored and the GB coaching staff will always pick the same old failures who have lots of expierence at international level (and losing may I add).

You do have some talent but I wouldn't go as far to say they are good enough defeat both the Aussies and Kiwis.

In GB well they are competitive but bring them over to the conditions that the majority of Kiwis and Aussies play in and well expect the gap to be opened up even more. At the moment everything regarding the international scene is built to try and assist the Britts and ESL to try and build the game up as one of the most popular sport in the UK but it continues to flop and fail

They could play the next 10yrs of international footy out of their and even then I doubt they will walk away with anything but the spoon like they did last year

Theres nothing wrong with the Junior structure at the clubs as proved over the last couple of years with our Schoolboys beating New Zealand and yourselfs in test series. Its just giving them the chance to step up that level froma junior to a full time pro which in past years they haven't been given that chance. More SL teams though are giving them youngsters Full time contracts each season and IMO it won't be long til we see a good crop of British talent in the game.

Alot of the junior Kiwis and Aussies play in the NRL at times when they are 18/19, this helps the development of these kids and the strucure for all clubs in the NRL is based around the juniors they are able to develope with the working cap they have

The cap, international quota needs to be changed ASAP, on top of this the ESL should introduce exemptions for local juniors which would encourage the developement of these kids into the top grade.

Clubs need players, they look at juniors, however in saying that its clear they think the juniors have a gap between the quality of the ESL and their current ability due mainly to the compition they have in the ranks and the developement structure within the ESL and reserves compitions

We arn't just talking about the ESL we are talking about the development of the reserve compitions as well which is also a problem