Super 12 is BACK!

[imported_midas]

fat mike
Kenny Irvine,s nickname was "Mongo" and nothing to do with the term rah-rahs have for leaguies.Like everyone else I haveno idea where the word came from but now I,m curious.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Tuqiri played ok apparently (i....ummm...missed watching the match). Crowd of 27,000 i see, not bad given the weather, but i could've swore the NSWRU was telling me on Thursday night on the news that only 4,000 tickets were left in a 42,000 seat stadium. Did 11,000 not turn up because of the rain?

I think Peter Fitzsimmons reads this forum. This is what he had today in the SMH

"The Word Mungo"

The other question last week was the origin of the usually pejorative term "mungo" to describe people who play rugby league....One reader claims that mungo as a league term referred to the rough'n'ready garb of the workers who started the game, and the good ol' Oxford dictionary at least confirms the origins of the word as a descriptive term for an extremely rough woollen fabric popular in the late 1800s in Britain. But from myriad emails, it is safe to say the term has clearly received a kick-along on several fronts

1. So many readers believes it referred to the leaguies MONGRELISING the beautiful game of rugby union - good point, now that i think of it - that it must have gained a lot of currency

2. There was a famous character in the 1974 film "Blazing Saddles" called Mongo. Who rode a Brahman bull with the word Yes on the left flank and no on th eright, and knocked a horse out with a bare-fisted punch. For some reason this character seems to have popularised toffee-nosed rah-rahs referring to leaguies as mungoes

3.Mungo MacCallum, the great political journalist, used to frequently write about league, and that too may well have helped give the term currency

..............

Thats all he wrote. Mungoes is an old name, so that cancels out number 2. Number 3 is a possibility, although personally i think its probably number 1

Also, Roy Masters (of all people) did a feature story on the RU World Cup in the business section today. Looks like he is following the Ray Chesterton lead of whoreing himself out to the highest bidder

In another short note, i found this today, hid away in the side section of the telegraph (surprise surpise)

"Eight months out from the word rugby world cup marketers have failed to sell a single Aussie Stadium suite or corporate box. It means the ARU - host of the World Cup from October to November - Could have near-capacity crowds but no one in the luxurious corporate boxes, which cost up to $40,000. General ticket sales, priced from $5 to about $500, have been an outstanding success. Senior rugby sources said yesterday suite prices would have to be reduced by at least 25% to attract any interest"

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[imported_Mystery_Man]

Bob Dwyer is a lot smarter than I thought he was -

http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/20/1045638425010.html

"I think one of the differences between rugby union and rugby league players in Australia is running skills ... and probably in the UK as well, as we saw with [Lions and England] fullback Jason Robinson, who is really agile," Waratahs coach Bob Dwyer said after his team to face Auckland was announced this week. "I think we've got a lot more of that in our team now."

 

[ali]

As a Cronulla fan I can't believe Ryan McGoldrick has gone straight from our reserve grade side into the Waratahs first 15 ahead of a couple of Wallabies. He was one very ordinary Rugby League player, and only played first grade during our injury and form crisis early last year. I laughed pretty hard when I read in a Union article that Cronulla was supposedly very upset to lose him.I am far more disappointed to lose Chris McKenna, Paul Mellor, Colin Best, Preston Campbell, Luke MacDougall and Jess Caine. All far more talented outside backs than McGoldrick

I always assumed Mungo was a derogatory term, but I have no idea what it actually means.

 

[CanadianSteve]

A side note on the Mongo of Blazing Saddles: He was played by NFL defensive tackle Alex Karras of the Detroit Lions. Karras was a colorful character who was one of the best defensive linemen of the 60's. He was nicknamed the Mad Duck because of his running style. His comic talents came out when he played himself in the 1968 movie Paper Lion, about a writer (George Plimpton played by Alan Alda in the movie) who spent a training camp posing as a quarteback candidate for the Lions. I think Blazing Saddles was Karras's second movie role. I don't recall any others, but he later was an NFL TV announcer, and starred in a TV sitcom with his wife, actress Susuan Clark.

I believe Karras has never been voted to the pro football Hall of Fame, though he should have been, because he was suspended for a season in 1963 or 64 for gambling on NFL games, though not on his own team.

Could be they will be on the look out for more League players if they keep losing games - I wonder if they keep losing will there be a backlash against signing league players? But I think the Waratahs failings are more in the forward pack, not the backs, right?

 

[Willow]

Mungo Man was the name given to human skeletal remains found in outback Australia. Called 'Mungo 3', the remainswere found in western NSW and arereportedly 60,000 years old.

Buuuut, it appears that this has no relationwhatsoever toRugby League players who are called unkindly called Mungoes. It should be noted that the skeleton wasn't wearing footy boots nor was he clasping a rugby league ball when dug up.

Some even suggest that this comparison is an insult to Mungo 3 who showed no evidence of being a sports lover and proof thatour ancient ancestors were more advanced than modernMan.
<hr>
Mungo MacCallum is a political reporter and quite an astute one at that. But after looking at Mungo, it soon becomes apparent that he is not a Rugby League player:

<hr>
Mangoes are a fruit grown mainly in warmer climates. But it appears that Mungo is not a corruption of Mungo This is despite evidence that some Rugby League players enjoy eating the odd Mangoand drinkingits sweet nectar.
<hr>
Alas, after exhaustive research, I cannot come up with a firm answer as to why RL players are sometimes referred to as Mungoes. This piece taken from a match report in the Australian newspaper (2000): I could have sworn I was watching a game of rugby league. Wallabies five-eighth Rod Kafer would get the ball, hop on the spot, and turn the ball back inside. Classic “mungoes” stuff’. Naturally, the jury is still out on this one and it appears that the word Mungo has origins dating back before written record. There is however some suggestion that it is slang for the word Mongrel. This being the best answer I was able to come up with... but not nearly as colourful as the preceding rambles. If anyone else else has a more concise answer, please dont hold back in letting us know.

 

[imported_Mystery_Man]

For once I completely agree with Phil Gould - http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/22/1045638542777.html <h1>Wara waste of two tremendous talents&lt;/HEADLINE>&lt;o>&lt;/o></h1> <span>By Phil Gould
&lt;/BYLINE></span>&lt;st1:date Month="2" Day="23" Year="2003"><span>&lt;DATE>Sunday, February 23, 2003</span>&lt;/st1:date><span>&lt;o>&lt;/o></span>&lt;/DATE> <span>&lt;o>&lt;/o></span> To suggest that the NSW Waratahs contains as many as eight rugby league converts is stretching the imagination to the extreme. &lt;o>&lt;/o> I went to the Super 12 rugby on Friday night to watch Mat Rogers and Lote Tuqiri. After all, these are the only two "leaguies" in the Waratahs squad who have actually made it in rugby league. &lt;o>&lt;/o> I do not include Nathan Blacklock in that analysis. He was not named in the team for Friday night. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Duncan McRae, who played five-eighth for the Waratahs, never reached his potential in rugby league. He has talent but there is little calmness or control about his football. He does well for the Waratahs but he is not a rugby league halfback or five-eighth. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Ryan McGoldrick, Paul Sheedy, Omar Hassanein, Milton Thaiday and Rocky Elsom? Well, they really haven't played league long enough, or at a high enough level, to call them league converts. They represent the more speculative-type purchases made by the Australian Rugby Union. This highlights yet again the lack of junior development in that sport. Anyway, I went to the Super 12 to watch Mat and Lote, not to incite a code war of words. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Rogers and Tuqiri are great athletes and wonderful footballers. It was a shame to see them change codes. &lt;o>&lt;/o> After watching the game on Friday night, the one thing I am convinced of is that rugby and rugby league are now totally different games. &lt;o>&lt;/o> People say the games are getting closer together. That's rubbish. They are getting further apart. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Trying to compare Tuqiri or Rogers as a rugby player to his status as a league player is a fruitless exercise saved only for the journalist looking to score points on a rival code's image. &lt;o>&lt;/o> The other thing I learned is that if Matt Burke had switched to rugby league a few years ago he would have made it big time. He is a really good footballer. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Wendell Sailor, Mat and Lote could do a lot worse than just watch how he plays if they are looking for tips on how to make it in rugby. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Lote looked lost on Friday night which, in fairness to all concerned, is only to be expected. Rogers seemed far more at ease but still I doubt whether he is totally suited to this style of game. &lt;o>&lt;/o> The bottom line is they are great league players and they will never play that way again in rugby because they do not have the team infrastructure or creative talent around them they enjoyed in league. &lt;o>&lt;/o> To succeed in rugby they will have to become different types of players. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Playing fullback or wing in league is an entirely different work space from playing the same position in rugby. The talented outside backs in league have a working relationship and understanding with just about every other position in the team. &lt;o>&lt;/o> There are plenty of people to create opportunities and, let's face it, league works in sets of six tackles where patterns and plays are planned and rehearsed and pressure is built over a period of time. &lt;o>&lt;/o> In rugby there is nowhere near the scope of creativity in other players in the team and there is less chance to build pressure or plan attacking raids because of all the technical stoppages that prevent continuity. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that we have to keep this in mind when comparing codes. &lt;o>&lt;/o> For mine, Tuqiri and Rogers - and Sailor, for that matter - don't see enough of the ball and they certainly don't get it in good position to show their talents. &lt;o>&lt;/o> Most rugby teams employ a fast-moving slide defence on long-side plays but I have seen few teams adept at attacking against such a defensive structure. &lt;o>&lt;/o> The players who suffer as a result are the talented players out wide. &lt;o>&lt;/o> The nature of the game and the importance of the kick in rugby also make them reluctant to back themselves. There was one moment on Friday night when Rogers went back to field a kick in his own quarter. Tuqiri dropped back in support and the opportunity was there for the two to link up and run the ball but Rogers kicked because this is the more simple and expected option. In league they have to run the ball and this is where they made their names. &lt;o>&lt;/o> I sat behind the goalposts on Friday night and I have to say my general feeling during the game was one of frustration. &lt;o>&lt;/o>&lt;/BOD>

 

[Marcus]

Well I was at Ballymore on Saturday. The weather was looking good 30mins before the match until it started to rain... heavy rain mind you, and it never let up for the rest of the night.

Sitting in the Griffith Uni stand and making good use with my $2 raincoat. I manage to watch an error ridden game with some umbrellas partially blocking my view and in the process getting a wet backside along with wet shoes and feeling sooooo uncomfortable and wondering if it was even worth coming out.

Well I wouldn't have went if I didn't buy the tickets 2 weeks ago. It was quite an experience, and despite the wet weather over 17,000 still managed to be at the game (apparently 22,800 tickets were presold)which I thought was impressive especially for a union game - maybe somethings changing here.

Anyway the match wasn't the best. The bath conditions at Ballymore hurt the spectacle and the ball was a bar of soap. Highlight would be Lathams try in the first few moments of the game - after that it was downhill for the Reds. Refs seem to be more stricter this year, especially on the tackler to release after the tackle. As well as players coming in on the side to join the ruck. Looks to me the IRB are trying to clean up the game.

Now the Reds have got a 4 game road trip, and I think if they could win at least 2 then they still have a chance to make the semis. Its going to be tough though.

Saw the Waratahs match. It was another wet weather game. They have got a lot of league players now - not sure if it does them any good. The new guys, Ryan McGoldrick, and Tuqiri were interesting to watch. McGoldrick looked to have a bit of pace until I saw Rupeni Caucau, the Blues winger, blow right by him. Rupeni linked up with Doug Howlett and got the ball back again to outsprint Tuqiri. Tuqiri is fast, but Rupeni is even faster - the guy wears jet shoes. He also used his pace to score his first try in the game in the corner in the first half - total out gunned Grey who had the better angle to defend. I hope Rupeni plays for Fiji - he has got to - I hope he doesn't play for NZ - I hope he is ineligible for NZ.

Tuqiri looked lost, just like Sailor last year. He made a good break in the first half and when the defender came he didn't look for the pass which he could have off loaded, instead he held for the tackle which I think is still his league instinct kicking in. I'm not sure if McGoldrick will be in the starting lineup this week. I think it will be Staniforth or Blacklock. I was surprised that Staniforth was not even in the 22 last week. Apparently his wife had a baby on thurs/fri and so he wasn't thinking rugby, so Dwyer sat him out.

Anyway I think it would be too harsh to just how the Reds and Waratahs will go this year especially in their opening games. The wet weather really doesn't give a good indication. I would like to see how they fair in dry weather, and imo I think they would be better teams in dry conditions.


2. There was a famous character in the 1974 film "Blazing Saddles" called Mongo. Who rode a Brahman bull with the word Yes on the left flank and no on th eright, and knocked a horse out with a bare-fisted punch. For some reason this character seems to have popularised toffee-nosed rah-rahs referring to leaguies as mungoes

I think this is were it came from. I've heard about this one a couple of times.

Did 11,000 not turn up because of the rain?- MFC

Don't the SFS have like 12,000 members or something? It wouldn't surprise me if a couple of thousand of them didn't turn up because of the rain.

"Eight months out from the word rugby world cup marketers have failed to sell a single Aussie Stadium suite or corporate box. It means the ARU - host of the World Cup from October to November - Could have near-capacity crowds but no one in the luxurious corporate boxes, which cost up to $40,000. General ticket sales, priced from $5 to about $500, have been an outstanding success. Senior rugby sources said yesterday suite prices would have to be reduced by at least 25% to attract any interest"

Looking at the 5 matches that will be played there. Only South Africa v Georgia, and Scotland v Fiji, are the highest profile matches. So I don't think corporate boxes with sell much for the games at SFS. I bet Stadium Australia would be the exact opposite.

 

[Willow]

Marcus, do you know where the term 'Mungo' came from?

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Its around 12,000, but they are undercover at the SFS (well most of them anyway)

Anyways, i have heard that Peter Jenkins gave rugby union a big serve in the telegraph today. Unfortunately, the website isn't working for me at the moment, so i cant post it up. Apparently it was about the proliferation of penalty goals in Rugby Union to the detrement of tries

Should make for an interesting read! Ive long suspected that Jenko has had his bickerings with guys such as John O'Neill
Cheers,
Moffo

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Cheers Bronco, but my computer just doesnt seem to want to open the daily telegraph website. Anyone else having this problem? Ditto for the Fox Sports website grrr

Is it possible that u could copy and paste it in here?

Cheers,
Moffo

 

This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Cheers Bronco, an interesting read

And my computer even showed it! I was starting to think that my computer was pro-union lol

Moffo

 

[Marcus]

Marcus, do you know where the term 'Mungo' came from? -Willow

I don't really know. I've heard it came from that movie 'Blazing Saddles" a couple of times. But apart from that I don't have a clue.

Does anybody know where 'rah rah' came from?


The Daily Telegraph can also reveal the 28 tries scored in round one, at 5.09 per game, shows a fall-off of 28 percent on last year's series average.

To be fair, last year was the record for the total number of tries scored for the season. Still, round 2 could produce different stats.


The IRB somehow think that refereeing should be like that of the NH nations. I disagree... it should be like the SH nations. I think on average more penalties are awarded for games in the NH that the SH.

Anyway, maybe things might be different this week. Its expected the first week players would be a bit rusty. So we might see an improvement this week.

 

[CanadianSteve]

If the referees continuing calling a tighter game, can the players adjust and bring it back to a more open game in spite of the stricter calls?

 

[ozbash]

i watched 2 games in their entirety last weekend.
the ref killed one, kaplan(sth africa), auck v warrahtahs
and the 2nd was excellent, paddy o,brien(nz) crusaders v hurricanes.

kaplan should be stood down, he wrecked what was possibly the game of the round. his whistle would have needed a total recondition after that game..

paddy o, on the other hand, let the game flow nicely. he only pulled it up when absolutely necessary. at some stages there were 15 plus phases of play. he used his advantage discretion beautifully.

steve, on saturday night-crusaders v hurricanes, the commentators mentioned that this yearSuper 12 was being shown live in nth america... did you get to see it ?

 

[CanadianSteve]

It's live in the US, I think that's Saturday afternoon or evening here. A Canadian sports network, imaginatively called Sportsnet, replays those games on Sunday mornings. I usually tape them and watch them that afternoon. I only got the last 30 min of Crusaders-Hurricanes. I saw a nice try by the Canes off a lineout, and a long run for a try by a young Crusaders player after picking up a loose ball. Umaga is one of my favourite players, so I was glad to see him.

Foxsportsworld (USA) seems to have lost the rights to northern Hemisphere games so I didn't get to see any of the fall internationals. They've been showing highlights shows since the Tri-Nations ended - best of S12, best of Currie Cup, NPC, etc. Now they'll be back to showing S12 games, and I'll start watching again.

 

[ozbash]

tana umaga had a god game tho he seems to be carrying an injury of some sort.
the hurricanes backs were way better than the crusaders. the crusaders have a lot of work ahead if they want to get to the semis..

what about the rugby league..will you get to see any this year?