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Super League France competition?

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
Atticus Finch said:
Let's walk before we run.

Lovely statement that pritty much sums up rugby League's current status It seems nobody wants to do anything to drastically improve another European competition. It almost seems that there to scared to initiate something cos someone might speak ary to any development aimed at improvement. "Run" since when has Rugby League wanted to run anything?
 

Atticus Finch

Juniors
Messages
19
Just having a French team in Super League and the organisation it has taken to get that far is "running". What international rugby league needs is a well thought through plan of action, coupled to sensible development projects, not cloud cuckoo land schemes that don't stack up financially or in any other way for that matter. Talk is cheap. The game needs to grow from the ground up.
 

Dakink

Bench
Messages
3,135
Just having a French team in Super League and the organisation it has taken to get that far is "running". What international rugby league needs is a well thought through plan of action, coupled to sensible development projects, not cloud cuckoo land schemes that don't stack up financially or in any other way for that matter. Talk is cheap. The game needs to grow from the ground up.

How true.....

Teams like Italy and co with no domestic comps (to my limited knowledge) add much needed flavour, variety and exoticism to the international game but for these teams to really survive and flourish into the future the groundwork has to be done first to ensure the survival of these teams beyond a drop of in the number of Aus players that can be used for international teams.

Even small developments in comps domestically can along with administrators pushing local players (re Carlnz post on Lebanon RL I think it was) is a more long term prospect for the games viability.
 

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
Atticus Finch said:
Just having a French team in Super League and the organisation it has taken to get that far is "running". What international rugby league needs is a well thought through plan of action, coupled to sensible development projects, not cloud cuckoo land schemes that don't stack up financially or in any other way for that matter. Talk is cheap. The game needs to grow from the ground up.


You moron do you have any concept of Business how in gods name can that be considered "running" more like friggin incompetence, and dont forget they wont be there till "06". After the 2 year period if they arent competitive it is a total waste of time and money no matter what, that is a fact. Thank god International rugby league only has to answer to the fans, because if they had to answer to shareholders most would be 10 ft under.

The only chance League has to grow is if it does seek out more financially prosperous regions thus at least some of the financial outlay can be eased. Fine they mightn't be heartland league areas but pouring thousands into areas of small populations is just suicide. The heartland league areas of France and to a lesser extent England aren't big enough for much development


Rugby Leagues biggest problem and it is without doubt undisbutable is it's inherent inbrededness-(should technically be a word). In Australia no one in a League management position at all wants to spread the game to the other states (FACT). Yes there are teams playing in Perth and Adelaide once or twice this year this year big whoop anyway it's only to try and make money and maybe sell a couple of jerseys not to improve League. Likewise in England they have done bugger all to spread League in Europe.

Instead of trying to do some work in other states the NRL is without hesitation blowing heaps on counrty rugby league. Although somewhat admirable the money could probably be better spent in say Melbourne, Adelaide, Darwin, Perth or somewhere else. I think it's fine to do clinics and stuff in Wagga and say Dubbo as they have reasonable populations but going all through NSW is just wasting money that could be better spent. If you have a brain at all im sure you would agree with me the NRL's current "grass roots country League" program is plane stupid, and using up money? The only good thing it's doing is giving League some nice media but big wow there spending heaps on it when it's just not necesary.


As for the UK and rugby League in general, one thing i would like to know is, correct me if im wrong but a life president of the RFL is Lord Derby. By my reckoning this would also be the same Lord Derby who's relative gave the cup in his honour to be contested in France Rugby League, and the same Lord Derby who owns the exceptional filly Ouija Board. This must also mean one of his descendants was the founder of the Epsom Derby and Oaks. So technically he is one of the most important figures in horse racing. I haven't really heard much about him, i guess he dosen't take an active part in the RFL, cos his name is never mentioned. What i want to know is why dosen't he? I suppose he just might not give two hoots but surely he is the type of person you would want takeing an active part in the thinking of Rugby League's future.


I would like to defend myself partially though in that i never said ohh set up this let me elaborate more please. Currently League in France is very confined trying to set up a France Super League comp would just be plain stupid! it's a geographic problem really. French Rugby League generally has an extremely small catchment area of South and S East France and basically is extremely limited in numbers it can possibly attract. Basically if France was to seriously consider a Super League it has to get Major Cities, Im not saying just set up here there and everywhere but generally look around speak to governments etc and see if they would like a team there, willing to help what they could possibly do etc etc. I mean if there is no interest at all simply you cant do it but if there is some interest surely a feasibility study could be conducted.
 

carlnz

Bench
Messages
3,860
Why I think France will do well in Super League:

They have a lot more talented players than the last time (just look at the results of France v Aus and NZ)
They have IMO the best Football developer (david Waite)in the world helping them out already.
They get pretty good croweds at the moment ( 4,000 to a club game and 8,000 to a test)
The side will be balanced with Poms and Aus players to help them...

It wont happen the first year but maybe the third before the frence team become a force which would hopefuly get sponosors on their side for the local game...
 

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
Atticus Finch said:
I got as far as the word "moron" and stopped reading. Sorry. Come back when you have developed an intellect.


Well you've dug yourself into a hole that no lawyer could get out of. Anyone would agree that whats happend so far in trying to set up a French ESL team has just been a huge stuff up and they've lost a heap, even the ESL would admit that. Atticus you praise there efforts yet also state the game needs "a well thought out plan", ohh ive well and truly got you there haven't I?


I guess it's to be expected that you would completley Freeze when it comes to business, after all thats what happens to most people in League.

Come back with an apology thanks.
 

carlnz

Bench
Messages
3,860
markstan said:
Atticus Finch said:
I got as far as the word "moron" and stopped reading. Sorry. Come back when you have developed an intellect.


Well you've dug yourself into a hole that no lawyer could get out of. Anyone would agree that whats happend so far in trying to set up a French ESL team has just been a huge stuff up and they've lost a heap, even the ESL would admit that. Atticus you praise there efforts yet also state the game needs "a well thought out plan", ohh ive well and truly got you there haven't I?


I guess it's to be expected that you would completley Freeze when it comes to business, after all thats what happens to most people in League.

Come back with an apology thanks.


So what they have lost money...they lost money on the 2000 World Cup, You have to lose money to make money sometimes....

Why do we get so many dumb people come in and shit on our game? We dont care how much money they lose as long as they get their team up and running...


you can find your apology here :arrow:
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
59,142
Can't see the French Getting Relegated at any time. Any team trained to play in Roussilin During the Summer will have a serious home town advantage. St Helens had trouble in 24 Degree heat during the CC final. I'd hate to think how they'd cope, let alone the little battlers like Leigh and Widnes in 30 Degree heat with some decent Humidity behind it.

As for the sh*t hangers...Seriously...Go to your own forum...Wait...Australian RU has no forum!
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,949
markstan said:
Rugby Leagues biggest problem and it is without doubt undisbutable is it's inherent inbrededness-(should technically be a word). In Australia no one in a League management position at all wants to spread the game to the other states (FACT).

That is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard.

IF, and I say IF that is the case why would the ARL, NRL and ARL Development:

- Invest in 3 Full Time Development Officers in Victoria, 3 in WA, 2 in the NT and 2 in South Australia
- Setup full time staff to run Rugby League in the states in addition to the full time development officers.
- Give significant annual grants to the development areas
- Setup competitions such as Open Age, Under 18's, Under 15's, Under 13's and so on National Championships to build up the states.
- Form High Performance Coaching systems in each of the areas
- Provide them all websites and new systems training to better promote themselves.
- Send the Bulldogs to Perth and Sea Eagles to Adelaide as part of the QANTASlink Blitz
- Help co-ordinate and co fund matches to these states over the next 4 years, kicking off with Bulldogs V Souths and Cronulla V Warriors in 05, but expect a lot more in 06.

If they didn't care, they wouldn't waste the money on the regions would they? Sure more can be done, but don't go claiming 'fact' that no one in any of those organisations cares.
 

bobbis

Juniors
Messages
798
Id agree with Atticus, a French SL side in the English competition is the best idea.

To start a whole new French competition at a professional level is unrealistic especially including countries where league is barely if at all played.

Where will the money and players needed come from, don't say RU you'll only get second rate players who will need time to adjust. The standard will be far below NRL or ESL, to raise the standard of French league the players need to be reguarly exposed to a higher standard, creating a French SL won't accomplish it, why would the standard be any greater than the current French domestic league.
 

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
carlnz said:
So what they have lost money...they lost money on the 2000 World Cup, You have to lose money to make money sometimes....

Why do we get so many dumb people come in and sh*t on our game? We dont care how much money they lose as long as they get their team up and running...


you can find your apology here :arrow:



For a start Im not a Union Fan Im a League fan.

Second i would hardly call that first statement an even remotely acceptable reply. "So what they lost money" Im sorry has Rugby League just recently acquired the bank of England? Then you come up with this absoloute gem "You have to lose money to make money sometimes"? Sorry that's just absurd if you lose money: you lose money simple, it's gone. However there is a saying that goes, "you have to spend money to make money".

As for your second section the reason people seek to express concerns, could possibly mean that there concerns have Merit? Ohh shock horror they could also stand up to scrutiny. The the other sentence i feel is also a tad selfish on your behalf and considering the History extremely Naive. If costs are going to spiral out of control and the team dosen't impress no matter what they'll be out same as PSG. Having said that it would be great if they do become reasonably succesful lets face it there not going to be challenging Wigan, Leeds, and co in the near future. Bottom line is they cant afford to be down the bottom to long otherwise they will get the chop.
 

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
yakstorm said:
- Invest in 3 Full Time Development Officers in Victoria, 3 in WA, 2 in the NT and 2 in South Australia
- Setup full time staff to run Rugby League in the states in addition to the full time development officers.
- Give significant annual grants to the development areas
- Setup competitions such as Open Age, Under 18's, Under 15's, Under 13's and so on National Championships to build up the states.
- Form High Performance Coaching systems in each of the areas
- Provide them all websites and new systems training to better promote themselves.
- Send the Bulldogs to Perth and Sea Eagles to Adelaide as part of the QANTASlink Blitz
- Help co-ordinate and co fund matches to these states over the next 4 years, kicking off with Bulldogs V Souths and Cronulla V Warriors in 05, but expect a lot more in 06.

If they didn't care, they wouldn't waste the money on the regions would they? Sure more can be done, but don't go claiming 'fact' that no one in any of those organisations cares.


Now this could be slightly hard to combat but here goes.

As I have stated before to much money is being poured into Country rugby League esp NSW such funding cant be justified. As far as the development officers go it's hardly a huge amount. Hate to compare but AFL has hundreds of dev officers fine League dosen't need to have as many but it's hardly hooray for league cos they have dev officers. As for the grants yes im aware the other states get given grants. Out of interest I was wondering how much are these grants Ball park Figure? Yet again hate to go back on it but the AFL give millions in grants. As for competitions correct me if im wrong: but dont virtually all national organisations setup such competitions and championships.


As for the NRL and the teams playing interstate it's merely a marketing ploy which is fine but most will cotton on it's not much more. Also with the Sydney Roosters close links with the ARL, as well as Roosters members publicly stating there against funding anywhere but League heartlands it's hard to say there doing a good job. At the very least they should be shutting people up who talk ill of them giving money to league interstate.
 

markstan

Juniors
Messages
215
bobbis said:
Id agree with Atticus, a French SL side in the English competition is the best idea.

To start a whole new French competition at a professional level is unrealistic especially including countries where league is barely if at all played.

Where will the money and players needed come from, don't say RU you'll only get second rate players who will need time to adjust. The standard will be far below NRL or ESL, to raise the standard of French league the players need to be reguarly exposed to a higher standard, creating a French SL won't accomplish it, why would the standard be any greater than the current French domestic league.

Well the French SL side is UTC in "06" SO THATS NOT REALLY THE ISSUE. I guess you would keep UTC in the ESL should France get a super League


The main question is would a France Super League be possible and viable. The whole aim wouldn't be to make it like the NRL, nor ESL in that all the teams have plenty of talented players. The aim would be to have a professional league in France that could basically benefit France on an international level.

The one thing In theory i personally like about it is that basically it would at least give the people in emerging nations a shot at professional League. In this sense it's only going to help the nations of Morroco, Lebanon, Russia, etc develop by having there players have something to aim for. If the standard is crap it will fold fast but the beauty of starting a new comp is the teams will be level and at least games will be close and technically clubs wont get too far ahead unlike NRL, and ESL. But then again it would need serious sponsorship and would need to expand it's horizon from it''s traditional southern France Heartland, it's simply not large enough. Whether they set up clubs in other european cities dosen't really matter that much, however it would be an option?


Yes players would be a problem probably wont work if it becomes a graveyard for Australians and Brits..
 

Puig-Aubert

Juniors
Messages
218
There is a new project for a team Super League in France, it's Marseille. Big city and Marseille has a great RL history !!!
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
Wow! Tell us more! Where did this project emanate from? Has the RFL suggested it go ahead?

Won't Toulouse be angry?

Marseille is a club on the rise, no? Plus they'll appeal to the large N. African contingent, many of whom seem to be into their league.
 

Copa

Bench
Messages
4,969
A altavista translation of that page produces the following:

Sport business



Rugby with XIII in search of notoriety

Under the impulse of a new federal team, this almost forgotten sport of the sponsors and television try professionnaliser.


No sponsor, no right TV. Such is today the situation of the French Federation of Rugby with XIII (a budget of 2,5 million euros) which has just elected a new president, Nicolas Larrat. With load for him to give to flood a professional sporting discipline which knew its hours of glory in years 1950 and 1960. "at that time, Rugby with XIII was financed by industrial rich person, tells it. We were too trustful and the Federation as the clubs did not know to anticipate the impact of television in the sport. The turn of the communication was not taken. A problem of leaders and the absence of true federal project failed cost very expensive our sport which almost disappeared in France, whereas it goes very well to England or Australia where it is a frightening competitor with Rugby with XV. "


An enormous delay
It is a cruel destiny for a sport, with strong accent of soil occitan, which undergoes the anathema under Vichy, when the Pétain marshal prohibits the professionalism and thus the practice of this play, obliging its members to join the clubs quinzists. The schism with the XV goes up at the years 1880-1890, when Rugby and football are confronted in England with professionalism. If the second admits without difficulty the problems of the remuneration of his practise, it will not be the same for the first what will cause the scission into 1895. "While developing towards the north of England, very industrial area, the proportion of practise resulting from the working layers increased, explains president Larrat. Rugby is not reserved any more for an aristocratic or middle-class elite, it evolves little by little to a working Rugby confronted with the crucial problem for him of the loss of earnings "It will be necessary to wait until 1906, with the removal of the stations of 3 E line wing in the play, which" harmed the extent of the movement "and" the more spectacular development of the play to broad "to see being born this new Rugby which will be established in France in 1934.


During one century, the good players of Rugby were to emigrate in the north of England, and the south of France (Carcassonne, Carpentras, Lézignan, Marseilles, Toulouse, Villeneuve-on-Batch) to earn their living... with XIII. The XV are from now on professional, and flow was reversed. Irony of the play: the team of England of Rugby to XV decided to involve itself this month with the club of Leeds, champion of England of Rugby to XIII "to improve" and "to better prepare" the Tournament of the Six-Nations. French side, product XIII exists "There should be sold", clamp the new president, while admitting having "an enormous delay to catch up with". The Federation made call at a Toulouse agency, Anouk Déqué Communication, "to canvass sponsors". The cost of the ticket of entry is 50 to 60.000 euros for a major partner. For the TV, any remainder to make "the chains made choices, in particular that of Rugby with XV, the other sports do not have right to the word, but one does not despair", known as Nicolas Larrat.

Possible renewed interest
Side clubs, the Federation created in its centre commission LER XIII in responsibility of structure and to develop professionalism "we should define the statute of the clubs and y to see clearly on the level of the contracts of the players", indicates the leader. The clubs are today 10 to dispute the Championship of France, with budgets from 600.000 to 1,5 million euros, without rights TV, living local partnerships and subsidies of the local communities. The matches attract on average 2.500 spectators. The players - a hundred - are for the majority pluriactifs with wages which are in a fork from 600 to 2.500 euros. The 60 foreign players who are professional to 100 % gain a little more.


This sport could know a renewed interest in France thanks to the neighbors of on the other side of the channel. Super League English joins together twelve clubs of the north of England, which live thanks to the basket of the press baron Rupert Murdoch which signed in 2004 a new agreement with federation (RFL) for the diffusion of the matches on BSkyB and an amount of almost 80 million euros to be poured in five years. The RFL, worried by the situation of the XIII in the Hexagon, decided to help with the "structuring" of a French club, via the federation: the Union Catalan treizist (UTC) born from the fusion of Saint-Estève and the XIII Catalan, will evolve/move thus the next year and for three seasons in Super League, with the help of a financial assistance from approximately 1,5 million euros, taken on the rights English TV. A second French club could join this elite from here one to two years (Marseilles), the objective in the long term of the English leaders being the creation of Super League European coming to compete with Heineken Cup of Rugby with XV.

ALAIN ECHEGUT
 

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