Superthread LXVII: Honouring Morgan Freeman on Helium

[adamkungl]

Quality contribution Eele

 

[HowHigh]

Sissssso

 

[Eelementary]

im in the same boat, non stop cookie monster lyrics just dont appeal to me and is why the like of slipknot, mudvayne, deftones, SOAD etc are on my favourites list (as well as many other genres).

Also everyone I know that is a "true" metal fan that you speak of that despise the bands mentioned above because you the average punter can actually distinguish an English word from the lyrics after only the first hearing are complete and utter flogs.

Us metal heads are very snobby when it comes to metal, but one of the main reasons "true" metal heads dislike bands like Slipknot and the others you mentioned is because they are not really metal in the traditional sense.

Slipknot is composed of some clearly talented musicians, but they wrote some very basic music and lost the essence of metal IMO. I can appreciate that they have talent, but I get bored listening to them because they dumb down their music too much at times.

The Deftones rule, though.

And gruff, growling vocals have a place in metal - listen to Kataklysm, for example, and clean vocals just don't complement the music. It's aggressive and fast music, and it needs aggressive vocal deliveries to match its testosterone levels.

Also, in many cases (if not all), when it comes to extreme metal, it's not about the vocals or the lyrics, so much as it is about the sheer head-smashing brutality of the musicianship.

 

[Eelementary]

Quality contribution Eele

:lol:

Got dang iPhone ain't made for people with fat fingers!

 

[adamkungl]

I disagree with the notion that shitty metal written for teenagers is not actually metal. Metalheads all too often try to segregate subgenres they don't like as not-metal or somehow lesser so it doesn't taint their precious view of what metal *should* be.

^ (Mostly) Not directed at you Eele, just a general statement. However.. i dont give the slightest shit about Slipknot but you can't tell me this isnt a metal song

[YOUTUBE]v_09wFxoaeQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[adamkungl]

Even shitty glam metal is still metal.

 

[BunniesMan]

Apey I could sue you for copyright infringement.

Also pretty creepy that you have a 14 year old as a display pic.

 

[adamkungl]

Youre a 14 year old now?

 

[BunniesMan]

That picture is me at 14. Maybe even 13.

 

[Eelementary]

I disagree with the notion that shitty metal written for teenagers is not actually metal. Metalheads all too often try to segregate subgenres they don't like as not-metal or somehow lesser so it doesn't taint their precious view of what metal *should* be.

^ (Mostly) Not directed at you Eele, just a general statement. However.. i dont give the slightest shit about Slipknot but you can't tell me this isnt a metal song

[YOUTUBE]v_09wFxoaeQ[/YOUTUBE]

I like some of Slipknot's songs, and I don't mean to put them in a sub-genre.

But I do think that sometimes they "phone it in" and just try to play as hard and fast as possible, and people say, "Oh! Metal!", and while I guess it's not technically incorrect, there is so much more to metal as a genre than being heavy.

I think Slipknot has some genuinely talented musicians in its midst, but I lament that they write simple and repetitive songs, because they are clearly talented enough to do better than that.

My personal definition of metal is that it is music that is defined by purity and musicianship - with a handful of obvious exceptions (Metallica being the most obvious one), metal bands don't make it as big as bands as Slipknot because (and this is just my opinion) they keep the ideals of metal flowing through their work - they write great solos and riffs, use drumming signatures and changes that don't translate well to "pop" metal, etc.

Having said that, listening to a dude play a 20-minute guitar solo is a wank. There needs to be artistry and chemistry involved for it to be metal IMO.

I didn't mean to criticise those aforentioned bands, because I like a few of them myself - Deftones are awesome, I listened to a bit if Slipknot when I was younger, and SOAD were the shit back in the day.

I was trying to explain why some "true" metal heads would behave the way they do, even if if doesn't make sense.

I remember when I was 15 or so, Coal Chamber was my favourite band ever. The "true" metal heads I used to hang out with made fun of me for liking that shit lol. They were into early Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon, etc. and claimed my tastes weren't metal. But they would offer no explanation further than that.

Looking back now, my tastes have changed a lot since then.

 

[Eelementary]

I think Opeth are a good example of a band that don't always play heavy music but are still metal because of their fundamentals.

As an aside, Storm Corrosion is some of the weirdest shit I've ever heard.

 

[adamkungl]

I can't disagree with any of that really, but I think metal fans would come off a lot less snobbish if they said "[band i dont rate] is shithouse" instead of "[band i dont rate] pfff thats not real metal".

Even power metal bands get the 'not real metal' treatment sometimes because they use wanky melodic vocals instead of more aggressive styles. And clearly anyone who thinks that knows absolutely f**k all about anything.

Considering the myriad of different styles it's actually pretty hard to give a precise definition that fits it all..

 

[Jason Maher]

Us metal heads are very snobby when it comes to metal, but one of the main reasons "true" metal heads dislike bands like Slipknot and the others you mentioned is because they are not really metal in the traditional sense.

Slipknot is composed of some clearly talented musicians, but they wrote some very basic music and lost the essence of metal IMO. I can appreciate that they have talent, but I get bored listening to them because they dumb down their music too much at times.

The Deftones rule, though.

And gruff, growling vocals have a place in metal - listen to Kataklysm, for example, and clean vocals just don't complement the music. It's aggressive and fast music, and it needs aggressive vocal deliveries to match its testosterone levels.
Also, in many cases (if not all), when it comes to extreme metal, it's not about the vocals or the lyrics, so much as it is about the sheer head-smashing brutality of the musicianship.

Metal is a very broad church. Shits me when people try to define it narrowly to match their musical taste or try to exclude particular bands they don't personally like. Seriously, get the f**k over it. Listen to what you like and don't listen to what you don't. Also the 6 million sub sub sub genres people come up with amuse me greatly.

As for aggressive vocals, don't get me wrong, I like a lot of aggressive metal voaclists, from the mildly aggressive growls of James Hetfield to the very aggressive Phil Anselmo. Just don't much like the extreme end of the scale. And I agree on the vocals matching the music, but then again, are there any rules anywhere saying they have to? The existence of Arch Enemy would suggest if there are any such rules, f**k them. And you can't get any more metal than that. ;-)

While I don't enjoy listening to metal where everything is an indistinguishable hiss, I get where it comes from. I play guitar myself, and sometimes I like to use the bridge humbucker through an overdrive pedal into high gain input, turn the pre-gain to 10 (need to redo that scale properly one of these days), turn the gain boost switch on, turn the mids to 0, the mid cut switch on, the bass and treble right up, and enjoy the fact no one will be able to tell how shit I'm playing. Pushing the limits has it's place, as does using restraint, and everything in between.

 

[Eelementary]

I can't disagree with any of that really, but I think metal fans would come off a lot less snobbish if they said "[band i dont rate] is shithouse" instead of "[band i dont rate] pfff thats not real metal".

Even power metal bands get the 'not real metal' treatment sometimes because they use wanky melodic vocals instead of more aggressive styles. And clearly anyone who thinks that knows absolutely f**k all about anything.

Considering the myriad of different styles it's actually pretty hard to give a precise definition that fits it all..

I don't disagree.

 

[Jason Maher]

Moar chick metal

Huntress

[YOUTUBE]c1OltqVcr1Q[/YOUTUBE]

Good shit. Another band I was hitherto unfamiliar with. Will need to watch a different clip to see if the lead singer is actually hot though.

 

[Eelementary]

Metal is a very broad church. Shits me when people try to define it narrowly to match their musical taste or try to exclude particular bands they don't personally like. Seriously, get the f**k over it. Listen to what you like and don't listen to what you don't. Also the 6 million sub sub sub genres people come up with amuse me greatly.

As for aggressive vocals, don't get me wrong, I like a lot of aggressive metal voaclists, from the mildly aggressive growls of James Hetfield to the very aggressive Phil Anselmo. Just don't much like the extreme end of the scale. And I agree on the vocals matching the music, but then again, are there any rules anywhere saying they have to? The existence of Arch Enemy would suggest if there are any such rules, f**k them. And you can't get any more metal than that. ;-)

While I don't enjoy listening to metal where everything is an indistinguishable hiss, I get where it comes from. I play guitar myself, and sometimes I like to use the bridge humbucker through an overdrive pedal into high gain input, turn the pre-gain to 10 (need to redo that scale properly one of these days), turn the gain boost switch on, turn the mids to 0, the mid cut switch on, the bass and treble right up, and enjoy the fact no one will be able to tell how shit I'm playing. Pushing the limits has it's place, as does using restraint, and everything in between.

There's absolutely no rules saying it anything about growls, no - but clean vocals/"clean" growls for bands such as Kataklysm or Lamb Of God don't sound right.

But you're spot on.

The one sub-genre that's popular these days that I can't get into is grindcore - it utilises pig squeals as vocals and time signatures that are all over the place. Experimentation is great and all, but there needs to be some sort of order, otherwise it just sounds weird.

And I think that's a big part of the problem now - I am not a musician myself, but I think the scenario you described is exactly why some genres of metal are struggling to find some fans as opposed to others. A lot of these musicians are seemingly resorting to playing as fast as possible (DragonForce) or simply as heavy as possible to try and hide their lack of creativity and/or quality of musicianship.

I'm also with you - I don't mind growls, but I favour clean vocals over unintelligible growls.

But then I favour the music above vocals and lyrics, too - for me, nothing beats a quality drummer or guitarist plying their trade.

 

[adamkungl]

Probably would. Great rack.

 

[Eelementary]

Been listening nonstop to Insomnium's new album, "Shadows Of The Dying Sun". I love this band.

 

[adamkungl]

Dragonforce have some pretty great songs in between the filler tbh

 

[Eelementary]

Dragonforce have some pretty great songs in between the filler tbh

Definitely, and Herman Li in particular is an amazingly talented musician.

But a lot of their filler just seems to be, "Let's see how quickly we can play for no reason other than to show off!"

And I mean, they pull it off sometimes, becuse they have some great music.