Sydney relocations

[Perth Red]

as ive shown on here if people want to argue sydney needs culling due to crowds, or other criteria then there are other clubs which are much worse and therefore should be booted as well

what it seems to be their argument is whatever criteria we judge sydney clubs on, dont judge other clubs on the same criteria ....

cronulla get bagged for averaging 12k.

ill bet if perth averaged 12k, owned their own ground and had a new development coming to give them $50 million profit these same people would be in a lather.

$50 million PROFIT? Lol
Cronulla operate on the lowest income in the NRL, this development funding will bring them up to the middle of the pack at best.

 

[georgesnmith]

Different countries, different competitions ffs. Like saying why can a city in America with 2mill people get 70k to an NFL game when Sydney can only get 7k to a NRL game. Pointless comparing apples and oranges.

Hkr's crowd is ok for SL, it would be terrible for NRL. Souths 20k crowd is ok for NRL would be terrible for afl. West coasts 40k is ok for afl would be terrible for NFL. Pointless comparisons,

your avoiding the issue again

Hull has 2 clubs in a population of 275k so 1 club for 132,500 ppl

sydney has 9 clubs in a population of 4.8 million, or 1 club for over 500k ppl

you say the first is ok and the second isnt.

unless you have no understanding of maths you understand that the sydney clubs have a captive population of 4 times that in england.

so its irrelevant about different countries, ive made them directly comparable

you dont have a leg to stand on champ

case closed.

 

[newman]

Newman the onlY reason is because the NRL have been pretty clear that they have to make a big consideration of the state of the current clubs before they will consider adding new ones. What this effectively means is a likelihood of a place like Perth, Gosford or Sw Brisbane where the game could be growing and see success held back due to the struggles of the over saturated Sydney market. I have nothing against any Sydney club and would feel really bad for any true fan who loses their club, I've been through it with Reds, been through it with false hope of expansion and faced the bleak prospect with my life long club so know what it feels like.

I would like nothing better than for Sydney to be super strong all clubs with 25k members and 20k crowds and all making a profit so we could expand to a 20 team comp but I just cannot see it happening so given what the NRL has said since the arlc took over either we don't grow the game and throw more money at existing clubs or we take some hard decisions and look at rationalising an over crowded market.not an easy decision either way. I sit on the cut the weak to add strength, others believe we don't need to look beyond nsw to have a successful NRL. Doubt either will change their minds lol.

So the situation is this.

The ARLC have stated that expansion is off the agenda until they strengthen the existing clubs (sensible, if there is a timeline.)
Relocation or culling sides has not been broached or even floated as "something being considered". It isn't even being discussed. The most recent litmus test with the ailing tigers proved that the ARLC will support struggling Sydney clubs and help them meet code, not move them or cut them loose.
So this whole discussion is pure fantasy. Because you are not getting your Perth side you have invented an imaginary set of circumstances where it might happen, even though all of the objective indicators point to the absolute opposite happening.

Live in reality for gods sake. Perth will get its side, and it should, but it should not, under any circumstances get it at the expense of an existing team or club.

 

[georgesnmith]

over 16k at LO in the wet

craps all over the 12k perth got in the wet a few weeks ago

:lol:

 

[newman]

over 16k at LO in the wet

craps all over the 12k perth got in the wet a few weeks ago

:lol:

You can imagine that with such bad weather the tv ratings would be through the roof.
And a great crowd at a "substandard" venue. Sydney people really don't like NRL do they?

 

[georgesnmith]

$50 million PROFIT? Lol
Cronulla operate on the lowest income in the NRL, this development funding will bring them up to the middle of the pack at best.

im in the development industry buddie and from what ive seen and read about this project its going to be a massive financial success.

they are already locking in pre sale contracts now so the profit will be locked in.

with the land paid off, fixed price contract with the builder, and pre sales in place you basically cant lose.

its a license to print money.

what they choose to do with their share of the profits will be interesting

they could opt to keep it in units in the development and then have residential income to fund their club.

at a guess they would be able to keep something like 70 units with no debt.

theyd have recurring income of 3 - 4 million from that.

or they could invest it in retail at a 7 - 10% return, that would give them more like double the income.

and i guess theyll have an upgraded leagues club as well and i read the ground was getting some improvements as well.

 

[newman]

$50 million PROFIT? Lol
Cronulla operate on the lowest income in the NRL, this development funding will bring them up to the middle of the pack at best.

Keogh said at the recent AGM that on the back of strong pre sales overall profit estimates had been upgraded to $40mill (from 30). Add that to the $10 mill they already returned from the developer and bingo! $50 million.

Sorry PR, you are wrong again. Don't you get tired of it?

 

[georgesnmith]

just had another look, wow there are actually 600 units in this thing.

and 17,500 sq m of retail.

the developer would probably be making $180 - 200 million.

if he gives cronulla $50 million still hes making a killing

if sharks hadnt been in debt at the start they couldve made the lot.

 

[taipan]

$50 million PROFIT? Lol
Cronulla operate on the lowest income in the NRL, this development funding will bring them up to the middle of the pack at best.

The profit from the Shark's development,has risen from $30m to $43m.Stage 1 & 2 selling out.

Bruno Cullen a fromer Broncos CEO ,who spent a couple of months at The Sharks,noted the club will be among the top half dozen in the code,and financially stronger than more than a few Sydney clubs.
Please keep up to speed.

 

[georgesnmith]

fk as a dragons fan im worried. we could become little brother now

lol

 

[newman]

Mate it's just so nice after all these years to feel like we have our house in order. After being beat down, hopeless, poor, death ridden (and most of that all our own fault) it's so nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel approaching, and it's seemingly no false dawn.

 

[Card Shark]

Mate it's just so nice after all these years to feel like we have our house in order.

In order in some ways, a disaster in others unfortunately.

 

[Perth Red]

So the situation is this.

The ARLC have stated that expansion is off the agenda until they strengthen the existing clubs (sensible, if there is a timeline.)
Relocation or culling sides has not been broached or even floated as "something being considered". It isn't even being discussed. The most recent litmus test with the ailing tigers proved that the ARLC will support struggling Sydney clubs and help them meet code, not move them or cut them loose.
So this whole discussion is pure fantasy. Because you are not getting your Perth side you have invented an imaginary set of circumstances where it might happen, even though all of the objective indicators point to the absolute opposite happening.

Live in reality for gods sake. Perth will get its side, and it should, but it should not, under any circumstances get it at the expense of an existing team or club.

PRetty much your spot on with all of that,this is a hypothetical discussion that started on the Brothers thread about if the expansion of the NRL should be ignored due to the poor state of current Sydney clubs. None of us sit on the arlc so none of us have any say it what will be decided. Doesn't stop us debating the pros and cons of what is going on in the game. After all isn't that the whole point off a RL discussion board?

 

[Perth Red]

over 16k at LO in the wet

craps all over the 12k perth got in the wet a few weeks ago

:lol:

Which crapped all over the 7,700 that turned up at Penrith :lol:

Not suggesting we cut the clubs with fans, just the ones without :sarcasm:

 

[Perth Red]

The profit from the Shark's development,has risen from $30m to $43m.Stage 1 & 2 selling out.

Bruno Cullen a fromer Broncos CEO ,who spent a couple of months at The Sharks,noted the club will be among the top half dozen in the code,and financially stronger than more than a few Sydney clubs.
Please keep up to speed.

In order for that to be true it would need to bring in over $6mill a year. Nothing I've read suggests it will bring in more than $2-3million a year. It will be enough for cronulla to at least pay a CEO and refurb the gym but not going to get them up there with the $20mill clubs. It will hopefully make them sustainable at least, it's a shame they didn't build stadium improvements into the development.

 

[Perth Red]

your avoiding the issue again

Hull has 2 clubs in a population of 275k so 1 club for 132,500 ppl

sydney has 9 clubs in a population of 4.8 million, or 1 club for over 500k ppl

you say the first is ok and the second isnt.

unless you have no understanding of maths you understand that the sydney clubs have a captive population of 4 times that in england.

so its irrelevant about different countries, ive made them directly comparable

you dont have a leg to stand on champ

case closed.

Lol you just don't get it do you. It's about popularity and sustainability. Hull has two clubs because it can sustain two clubs in SL with no detriment to the growth of SL. Sydney has nine clubs and the situation of some of them is likely stunting the growth of the game. Understand?:crazy:

 

[newman]

In order for that to be true it would need to bring in over $6mill a year. Nothing I've read suggests it will bring in more than $2-3million a year. It will be enough for cronulla to at least pay a CEO and refurb the gym but not going to get them up there with the $20mill clubs. It will hopefully make them sustainable at least, it's a shame they didn't build stadium improvements into the development.

Mate leave the guesstimating to those who have some knowledge of the issue. Keogh told members at the recent AGM that the profit for the whole project was $43 mill with a 10% margin for error. It's a single payoff, not ongoing revenue.

 

[newman]

Lol you just don't get it do you. It's about popularity and sustainability. Hull has two clubs because it can sustain two clubs in SL with no detriment to the growth of SL. Sydney has nine clubs and the situation of some of them is likely stunting the growth of the game. Understand?:crazy:

Stunting the growth of the game? This is something that only YOU SAY. The game is growing rapidly in many, many factors and that is due to the current clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

Stunting the growth of the game? This is something that only YOU SAY. The game is growing rapidly in many, many factors and that is due to the current clubs.

Actually both grant and smith have said it is a big consideration in the ability of the NRL to expand, not to mention many fans of the game who have commented on here who feel the same.

Ps I said "likely" because until end of this year we won't know for sure but I get a sense we will see no expansion.

 

[Perth Red]

Mate leave the guesstimating to those who have some knowledge of the issue. Keogh told members at the recent AGM that the profit for the whole project was $43 mill with a 10% margin for error. It's a single payoff, not ongoing revenue.

Happy to be proved wrong, can you give me a link to an article where it says it is a $43mill one off pay out? My recollection is this was over a long period but as it is your club I presume you will know the facts More than me and can point me to a reference?