Tacklers lying in the ruck

[innsaneink]

Its annoying me very much to see lazy defenders lying in the ruck, when the attacker is playing the ball... most times imo intentionally
He gets in the road of the dummy half, refs dont want anything to do with this.
Why not have a rule where a defender is lazy & lying in the ruck, this makes the markers automatically offside ( cannot take part in the play)
Im sure we'd quickly see these lazy tacklers getting out of there.

 

[Raider_69]

I agree
one of the best signings the raiders have made in years is brett white... the reason, he has a complete and utter understanding how the ruck and how to exploit it... it'd shit me if i was playing against him. You ignore it when it comes to melbourne because its expected, but when you play against a former melbourne player, you really notice how they minipulate the ruck.

 

[timka4]

It's very annoying. Was happening all throughout origin 3 and it just makes the ruck look scrappy and messy.
Especially with the inconsistent penalty blowing of players lying in the ruck, needs to be fixed.

 

[Quidgybo]

I think the current interpretation is spot on.

There's an onus on the dummy half to do all he can to clear the ruck quickly and cleanly. A penalty will not be given if he deliberately tries to trip over a defensive player stuck in the middle of the ruck or if through his inaction the ball rolls into a defensive player on the ground. If he fumbles the ball while milking then he will loose possession to a scrum.

The defensive players must make an attempt to clear the ruck if they can do so without interfering with the dummy half. If they find they are stuck in the middle of the ruck then they will not be penalised as long as they don't actively interfere with the dummy half and allow him to work around them. If the dummy half allows them room to clear the ruck then they must do so immediately.

The basic interpretation seems to allow play on as long as everyone is doing their best to play on, and no reward for either attack or defense for not trying to play on. It's a very pragmatic interpretation and easy to apply.

Leigh

 

[innsaneink]

I think the current interpretation is spot on.

There's an onus on the dummy half to do all he can to clear the ruck quickly and cleanly. A penalty will not be given if he deliberately tries to trip over a defensive player stuck in the middle of the ruck or if through his inaction the ball rolls into a defensive player on the ground. If he fumbles the ball while milking then he will loose possession to a scrum.

The defensive players must make an attempt to clear the ruck if they can do so without interfering with the dummy half. If they find they are stuck in the middle of the ruck then they will not be penalised as long as they don't actively interfere with the dummy half and allow him to work around them. If the dummy half allows them room to clear the ruck then they must do so immediately.

The basic interpretation seems to allow play on as long as everyone is doing their best to play on, and no reward for either attack or defense for not trying to play on. It's a very pragmatic interpretation and easy to apply.

Leigh

How can they do this without the play the ball being slowed which is the intention of the defender lying in the ruck

 

[Alan Johnson]

Been bugging me all year.

 

[Quidgybo]

How can they do this without the play the ball being slowed which is the intention of the defender lying in the ruck

You know it is possible for the defender to find himself on the ground between the dummy half and the ball without it being deliberate. What the interpretation is saying is that you won't be penalised if you find yourself in the middle of the play the ball and you do your best to get out of the way if you can without further tangling up the dummy half. If you can't get out of the way (eg. because the dummy half is leaning or stepping over you to pick up the ball) then we still won't penalise you as long as you don't stop the dummy half from working around you. The dummy half has to try to work around you and not deliberately milk the situation.

Leigh

 

[innsaneink]

Occasionaly theres nothing a defender can do, he is just there and cannot disappear, but its obvious its also a tactic which slows down the attacks play the balls.

 

[The.X.Factor9]

It's very annoying. Was happening all throughout origin 3 and it just makes the ruck look scrappy and messy.
Especially with the inconsistent penalty blowing of players lying in the ruck, needs to be fixed.

This. I totally agree; at the start of the year they were clamping down on ruck wrestling and now all of a sudden they allow people to sleep in the ruck; they are too scared to blow penalties.

 

[innsaneink]

You know it is possible for the defender to find himself on the ground between the dummy half and the ball without it being deliberate. What the interpretation is saying is that you won't be penalised if, through no fault of your own, you find yourself in the middle of the play the ball and you do your best to get out of the way if you can without further tangling up the dummy half. If you can't get out of the way then we still won't penalise you as long as you don't stop the dummy half from working around you. The dummy half has to try to work around you and not deliberately milk the situation.

Leigh

Nice sidestep
98% of your posts state the obvious.

You still have not answered me how or why a dummy should allow a defender room to clear the ruck immediately
This is not the dummy halfs problem.

 

[The.X.Factor9]

Nice sidestep
98% of your posts state the obvious.

You still have not answered me how or why a dummy should allow a defender room to clear the ruck immediately
This is not the dummy halfs problem.

What do you want the player to do ? Vanish into thin air ? with the speed of the game its hard for a player to clear the ruck especially if he is an insanely bulky forward.

 

[Quidgybo]

Nice sidestep
98% of your posts state the obvious.

Good, that probably means I'm making sense. The obvious frequently gets lost in the rush to whinge about this outrage or that. It generally isn't stated often enough.

You still have not answered me how or why a dummy should allow a defender room to clear the ruck immediately
This is not the dummy halfs problem.

It partly is now. That's the point. Both teams have a responsibility to ensure the play the ball is as quick and clean as possible, no longer just the defense. The attack will not be rewarded for not doing their part in that. And the defense will not be penalised if, in your own words, "theres nothing a defender can do, he is just there and cannot disappear".

Leigh.

 

[docbrown]

This. I totally agree; at the start of the year they were clamping down on ruck wrestling and now all of a sudden they allow people to sleep in the ruck; they are too scared to blow penalties.

They know who the repeat offenders are too.

 

[Danish]

Completely agree with OP.

Players lay in the ruck constantly these days. They make no attempt to roll away, and instead just throw their hands up to make it look like they are trying to get out of there.

It seems unless you just blatantly stand in the ruck like Lawrence did on Friday night you won't get pinged.

I know refs try and just allow it for the sake of keeping the game flowing, but that just leads to more inconsistent rulings as they do penalise it occasionally

 

[Mr Fourex]

What do you want the player to do ? Vanish into thin air ? with the speed of the game its hard for a player to clear the ruck especially if he is an insanely bulky forward.

^^ THIS ^^

If the defender fights to his feet in an attempt to clear the ruck he can been seen as interfering with the play the ball. Yet if he lies there he's infringing as well?

If referees stuck with policing the rules as they were meant to be.....

i.e player playing the ball must get to his feet, stand square and play the ball with his foot

and they did this EVERY TIME......(granted it will be outrageous and highly annoying at first)

but eventually, it will slow the ruck area down just enough to make it workable and still free flowing so that we aren't squealing about players who don't/can't vanish into thin air.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

I think theres a simple solution, the player playing the ball should be allowed to move away from the player lying on the ground. If the player on the ground is also not one of the would be markers, it should be a penalty.

 

[innsaneink]

Good, that probably means I'm making sense. The obvious frequently gets lost in the rush to whinge about this outrage or that. It generally isn't stated often enough.

No...its not good, just get to the damned point.

It partly is now. That's the point. Both teams have a responsibility to ensure the play the ball is as quick and clean as possible, no longer just the defense. The attack will not be rewarded for not doing their part in that. And the defense will not be penalised if, in your own words, "theres nothing a defender can do, he is just there and cannot disappear".

Leigh.

Ive stated its obvious players end up there and thats footy, there are also many many more occasions imo where players can get out but choose not to, its a tactic and it DOES penalise the attack and advantages the defence
It has slowly been increasing in the game the last 2 seasons, a result of them cleaning up the wrestle in the ruck, dont kid yourself, this is not entirely haphazard, and I know my suggestion leaves another grey area open to a refs interpretation....just a thought & suggestion.

 

[Quidgybo]

No...its not good, just get to the damned point.

Not every point or idea fits in 140 characters. But if it annoys you that much you could just exercise the forum equivalent of changing the channel and skip reading my posts. I won't be offended, honest.

Ive stated its obvious players end up there and thats footy, there are also many many more occasions imo where players can get out but choose not to, its a tactic and it DOES penalise the attack and advantages the defence
It has slowly been increasing in the game the last 2 seasons, a result of them cleaning up the wrestle in the ruck, dont kid yourself, this is not entirely haphazard, and I know my suggestion leaves another grey area open to a refs interpretation....just a thought & suggestion.

Look, I don't disagree there are occasions when it is a deliberate tactic. And that's still a refs judgement call to decide whether it is. But I'm just saying that the interpretation we've seen this year (under the Harrigan regime) has been a lot more common sense and practical. It puts an onus on the attack to get on with the game if at all possible and doesn't penalise the defense for the unavoidable. It minimises referee intervention which in my opinion is generally a good thing for the game.

Leigh

 

[innsaneink]

Not every point or idea fits in 140 characters. But if it annoys you that much you could just exercise the forum equivalent of changing the channel and skip reading my posts. I won't be offended, honest.

I usually do...but in this case it would be silly to create a thread and then ignore it. I only read your replys to me.

The ruck has long been a problem area for the game, and Im sure those in charge are happy to see the ball away from the ruck as often as possible, dummy half running doesnt suit their TV product.

However much like no. 7's finding out tired forwards during the old 5m regime, I am one that does not mind seeing a nippy dummy half like Luke or Farah gaining an advantage from a a good run half punching through the like reulting in a quick play the ball and ensuing roll on or a scoot due to lazy defence

 

[madunit]

Canberra were doing it all game against the Sharks and got away with every time. It was atrocious.

And it's easy enough for the defender to get out of the way, all they have to do is roll to one side, get to their feet etc.

They can do it, but they are coached not to.

Why they continue to do so is a bit stupid because it will just mean the defensive line has to spread further to cover the gaps, over the course of a game it will be detrimental to your side.