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Talk of 2012 Four Nations - without Australia

pcpp

Juniors
Messages
2,266
NEW Zealand and England are considering playing a Four Nations tournament without the Kangaroos in the lead-up to the 2013 World Cup.

While the Kangaroos will again be involved in next year's tournament, which will be staged in Britain and include Wales, there is no international schedule for the end of the 2012 season as Australian officials want to give the players a summer off after three consecutive Four Nations since the last World Cup in 2008.

But their New Zealand and England counterparts believe there is sufficient interest in the concept to warrant playing without the Kangaroos, and could invite Wales and France to make up the numbers.

Despite failing to sell out Suncorp Stadium for last night's final between Australia and the Kiwis, officials consider this year's tournament to be a success - due largely to the crowds for the three matches played in New Zealand.

With the Kiwis having won the 2008 World Cup, league in New Zealand is booming and last Saturday night's ''dead rubber'' against Australia attracted a crowd of 44,432, while 20,668 fans turned up for the match against England in Wellington and 7500 fans crammed into Rotorua International Stadium for the game against Papua New Guinea.

In fact, the attendance figure of 72,600 for the three matches in New Zealand was greater than the number of spectators who watched the three games in Australia, with the 36,299 crowd at Suncorp Stadium last night taking the total to 66,501.

However, television ratings in Australia have been strong, with the Australia-England match in Melbourne being the most watched program in Sydney with an average viewing audience of 402,000 and second in Brisbane with 276,000 viewers.

The Kangaroos-Kiwis clash also rated well, with 354,000 viewers in Sydney last Saturday night and 244,000 in Brisbane, while Australia's match against Papua New Guinea was watched by an audience of 272,000 in Sydney and 161,000 in Brisbane.

But interest could have been much higher if the draw for the tournament was done differently so that last Saturday night's match was not merely a dress rehearsal for what was a gripping final in Brisbane last night.

Rather than face the might of New Zealand and Australia in its first two matches, England would have been much better served by opening its campaign against Papua New Guinea.

A tournament opener between Australia and New Zealand would have also ensured the loser had to win its remaining two games, while both matches last weekend would have had a bearing on which teams qualified for the final.

After having its preparations hampered by the political infighting that led to coach Adrian Lam resigning on the eve of the tournament, Papua New Guinea was a major disappointment and there is now talk about a combined Pacific Nations team taking its place the next time the tournament is staged in the southern hemisphere.

A newly formed Asia-Pacific Rugby League Federation has been established, with its headquarters in Auckland, and each of the seven full-member nations will get a seat on its board.

The main focus of the federation will be development in the Pacific Islands and with the Kiwis now fielding arguably their strongest team, officials want to improve the standard of countries such as Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and Papua New Guinea.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-leag...ooroo-for-2012-tournament-20101113-17s3i.html

Seems like a good idea, it will give developing nations a great opportunity in the spotlight.

If this does go ahead, should France and Wales participate or should one Pacific and one European team get to qualify. And should the same Four Nations trophy be awarded?

Good to see an Asia-Pacific Federation established as well.
 

Scubby

Juniors
Messages
395
Actually I think, because we have a Worl Cup in 2013, 2012 is the perfect excuse for a blood and thunder 3 test series between NZ and Eng.

I think the momentum that NZ has got with crowds should be allowed to continue. Tests at Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch (or even the new covered stadium down south) would help to build on the Kiwis reputation. 2011 will also be a tough year for the Kiwis to get exposure with the Union WC. A home series in 2012 would give a chance to get back on track.
 

chefman21

Juniors
Messages
1,220
I quite like the idea.

  • It's good for the game to see a couple of the lesser nations step up and have a crack. It prepares them for the big games at the World Cup.
  • It gives the Australian players a nice, long off season which I think will do them wonders. They will be properly fresh for the next season, and they can get repairs done if needed. The clubs will be happy.
  • It leaves us as a mystery to the other teams for the World Cup.
  • It allows the Australian team to get together to purely run plays and do ballwork during the off season if needed/wanted.

It's not conventional, and I'm sure some will whinge that the best teams should be playing at all times, but I think it's quite progressive and a good preparation for the World Cup. We don't need to play the other teams 12 months before the World Cup to work on our preparation, as it's largely gone and forgotten by then. I know I said that the lesser teams can use it for preparation, but I think lesser teams can learn far more by playing a couple of the big nations as compared to us. We are a better quality team with a long history of competitive games against England and NZ, so we don't need to play other teams to know what we can do and what we need to fix. Our players are proper professionals, who know their games inside out, so should have the ability to improve on areas. In other words our experience and professionalism will serve us well. Does that make sense?
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
7500 fans crammed into Rotorua International Stadium

They didn't look that crammed to me (who the hell writes this stuff, a bit of research perhaps?).

Anyway, I think it is a good idea. France would be up for this.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,525
A four nations with 3 Euro teams might be a bit much though after a 2011 UK 4 nations and followed with a 2013 UK World Cup. Might be a bit too much in a 3 year period.

2012 should focus on the southern hemisphere. The idea of a 3 game England tour of New Zealand is a good one.



Alternatively how about:


May

Australia vs New Zealand @ Canberra



June
Euro Tri-Series:

France vs Wales

England vs Wales

England vs France

- winner is the top team on points -

- either Wales or France (whoever ranks higher) plays in the end of season tournament with England in New Zealand (and has the points in their game against England count for that tournament)


October
Week 1/2

New Zealand vs Fiji

England vs France/Wales II
PNG vs Samoa

Tonga vs Cook Islands


Week 3

New Zealand vs France/Wales I

England vs Samoa

PNG vs Tonga

Fiji vs Cook Islands


Week 4

New Zealand vs England I

France/Wales vs PNG

Tonga vs Fiji

Cook Islands vs Samoa



November

Week 1

New Zealand vs France/Wales II

England vs Tonga

Samoa vs Fiji
Cook Islands vs PNG


Week 2

New Zealand vs England II

France/Wales vs Cook Islands
Samoa vs Tonga
PNG vs Fiji
 

Flame Thrower

Juniors
Messages
22
I would have thought the obvious solution would be to play a touranment(maybe every second year) with out Australia and New Zealand in it,that would give the players of those 2nd tier nations a chance to believe they can actully win it(something).
Australia and NZ are to far ahead of everybody else,every touranment they play will be Aust V NZ final.
Probobly not good for growing the game internationly when teams know there playing to "Make Up The Numbers".
I bet nearly all Rugby League Fans have see a game thats in the balance,both teams looking to get that winning try and when one does the other team players heads go down in the belief that the effort to get another try is too much.
Now imagine rolling up to a tournament as a player with that attitude to begin with.
 

NRLMad

Juniors
Messages
835
I would have thought the obvious solution would be to play a touranment(maybe every second year) with out Australia and New Zealand in it,that would give the players of those 2nd tier nations a chance to believe they can actully win it(something)..

Thus nmay be true and clear as mud to all of us, but if NZ and Australia aren't playing where would you play the games? The interest would be quite low... Yoiu need to have at least 2 majors playing at a time...
 

Flame Thrower

Juniors
Messages
22
Thus nmay be true and clear as mud to all of us, but if NZ and Australia aren't playing where would you play the games? The interest would be quite low... Yoiu need to have at least 2 majors playing at a time...
Well Start with 8 teams in two pools.
PG,Fiji,Tonga,Samoa and the other pool with England,France Wales and Scotland.
Two teams Qualify from each pool,then have a knock out or 4 natoins format.
The pool games would not have to be played in tornament form,they could played like the old world cup format for less cost to start with.
These games for the Pacifc pool could be played before the city country and origin matches,this would help bring a big match feal for the players.
The northern teams can decide when they play theres and i think the intrest in GB would be high seeing as they would be the favourites.
Personaly i would watch it,and the final 4 tournament would rate very well,i bet you would watch it, i bet any league fan would watch it.
 
Messages
13,584
I really can't belive the ridiculous order of games in this years 4 nations.

Agree with this.

Whoever ok'd should be punted.

Truly geniused, resulting in a dead rubber with no real logic to it at all.

Would the Independent Commission influence this inherent stupidity?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,097
a 3 match series would be great played at Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. Will give another massive shot in the arm for the game in NZ.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,097
Agree with this.

Whoever ok'd should be punted.

Truly geniused, resulting in a dead rubber with no real logic to it at all.

Would the Independent Commission influence this inherent stupidity?

probably not, I am sure with Love booted from the domestic game he will find a way to keep his lucrative RLIF appointment. He was responsible for the fixtures.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
from a purely selfish england point of view think we should tour NZ,3 games against NZ and a couple of warm up games against samoa & tonga to prep us for the world cup...
 

Wilson1

Juniors
Messages
497
I would have thought the obvious solution would be to play a touranment(maybe every second year) with out Australia and New Zealand in it,that would give the players of those 2nd tier nations a chance to believe they can actully win it(something).
Australia and NZ are to far ahead of everybody else,every touranment they play will be Aust V NZ final.
Probobly not good for growing the game internationly when teams know there playing to "Make Up The Numbers".
I bet nearly all Rugby League Fans have see a game thats in the balance,both teams looking to get that winning try and when one does the other team players heads go down in the belief that the effort to get another try is too much.
Now imagine rolling up to a tournament as a player with that attitude to begin with.

People underestimated England. I think New Zealand are far better right now but by 2012 that could be very different. The gap between the two countries is not as big as some would think. To call England a 2nd tier nation is blatantly wrong. A tournament featuring England and three other nations would be far more predictable than the current four nations.

They didn't look that crammed to me (who the hell writes this stuff, a bit of research perhaps?).

Anyway, I think it is a good idea. France would be up for this.

They certainly weren't crammed in. The stadium fits 35,000.

from a purely selfish england point of view think we should tour NZ,3 games against NZ and a couple of warm up games against samoa & tonga to prep us for the world cup...

I think everyone would be up for that.
 

Flame Thrower

Juniors
Messages
22
People underestimated England. I think New Zealand are far better right now but by 2012 that could be very different. The gap between the two countries is not as big as some would think. To call England a 2nd tier nation is blatantly wrong. A tournament featuring England and three other nations would be far more predictable than the current four nations..

I don't agree about the Poms being 1st tier nation(I wish they were),the stats back this up.

England has never won the tri/4 nations title.

England has contested the tri /4 nations final twice for a total for and against points tally of 20 FOR - 90 AGAINST,this stat sounds more like a stat for PNG.;-)

I also think the gap between the Aussies and Kiwis to the English has stayed the same for the last 10 years and if anything its getting wider.

I been waiting years for the Pommies to catch up and guess what??

They never have.....Time for a new approach.

Give the English a chance to be the favorites which would hopefully,give RL a boost.

The point is also to give the lesser nations a go in a World class tourament that they can actully make the final and maybe,win in the not to distant future.


LONG LIVE RUGBY LEAGUE.:)
 

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,532
England beat New Zealand in the Four Nations last year. NZ didn't play in the final. I also seem to remember a few years ago England beat NZ in a 3 match series.

They had an off year this year, they are clearly in the first tier of rugby league. If they played in a series with Wales, France etc they would kill all of them, anyone that doesn't think so doesn't have a clue.
 
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