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Team v Raiders

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,366
I can see why they might end up being surplus to requirements next year, that's not my point.
I want to know why anyone would think these two players are not first grade standard
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
Bukuya apparently not sleeping and it's f**king his training and subsequently his fitness. He's dropped to NSW Cup because he is now only capable of 40 minutes instead of the 80 he was earlier in the season...

Sione Lousi has been great in NSW Cup and deserves his jersey if he gets it.
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
I can see why they might end up being surplus to requirements next year, that's not my point.
I want to know why anyone would think these two players are not first grade standard

Seriously mate, dont get so butt hurt at times. I never said they are bad players, in fact I have stated they are underperforming compared to what they earn. And that is it pure and simple.

Sam Rapira has been at the club for years and years and is still not an established starting prop. Say's enough really - journey man pure and simple. NRL capable player but depth player at best. Maybe a new environment would get the best out of him because he is not getting the business done here.

Bukuya is not doing the job he was signed to do, they wanted a dynamic line breaker with work horse qualities, he has turned into a work horse and his dynamic impact has been largely halted. This team needs a difference maker. That's what they are looking for. They may see better value elsewhere for what they are paying.

Fan favorites yep, probably your favorites - yep, value for money - nope
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,862
Sione Lousi is a constant disappointment in FG. I don't think he has the attitude or the aptitude to make it in FG. Its a shame, because I had high hopes for him.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,862
Apparently Edrick Lee is set to return for the Raiders this week
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
Its about value to $. Players are stocks, following trend if value is not there then recoup on other stock. That other stock is Hoffman who would fill Bukuyas position first and maybe Papaili if he repeats his high impact performances as Hoffman, Mannering and Henry would allow the Warriors to carry a monster 2nd rower on the bench in rotation.

.

Bullshit to an extent - the bottom line is Hoffman is not here now, and Bukuya is - so, as many have suggested, regardless of what he's paid, Bukuya is still playing ok. The coach's job is not to put out the best value for money team, rather the best team.

The reason Bukuya is not playing, is clearly not the line you're peddling. And I find it hard to believe they would be looking to kick Rapira out... :crazy:
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
Sione Lousi is a constant disappointment in FG. I don't think he has the attitude or the aptitude to make it in FG. Its a shame, because I had high hopes for him.

But he's probably paid less than Bukuya, so Iron Lion will be happy
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
And we're still hoping to make the semis - now is not the time to put Manu in the forwards, seriously, WTF
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
Seriously mate, dont get so butt hurt at times. I never said they are bad players, in fact I have stated they are underperforming compared to what they earn. And that is it pure and simple.

Sam Rapira has been at the club for years and years and is still not an established starting prop. Say's enough really - journey man pure and simple. NRL capable player but depth player at best. Maybe a new environment would get the best out of him because he is not getting the business done here.

Bukuya is not doing the job he was signed to do, they wanted a dynamic line breaker with work horse qualities, he has turned into a work horse and his dynamic impact has been largely halted. This team needs a difference maker. That's what they are looking for. They may see better value elsewhere for what they are paying.

Fan favorites yep, probably your favorites - yep, value for money - nope

So, if two players do similar jobs, you pick the lower paid one when you want to win? As others have said, this is not what's behind Bukuya

As for Rapira - journeymen are not one club players, and he definitely is an established starting prop. He's been injured FFS
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
So, if two players do similar jobs, you pick the lower paid one when you want to win? As others have said, this is not what's behind Bukuya

As for Rapira - journeymen are not one club players, and he definitely is an established starting prop. He's been injured FFS

Are you enjoying not playing finals football ? , sounds like you have got far to used to it.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,366
Seriously mate, dont get so butt hurt at times. I never said they are bad players, in fact I have stated they are underperforming compared to what they earn. And that is it pure and simple.

Which is fine except (as usual) you have completely failed to explain how/why they are underperforming. What exactly is the 'Iron Lion' standard?

Sam Rapira has been at the club for years and years and is still not an established starting prop. Say's enough really - journey man pure and simple. NRL capable player but depth player at best.

Again.. based on what?
When not under an injury cloud he is an established first grade prop.

Fan favorites yep, probably your favorites - yep, value for money - nope

These guys are not my favourite player. At all
I'm just calling BS when I see it.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
I really can't figure you out, is this a prolonged (and very poor) trolling attempt or are you just completely clueless?

I think we're back to this, unfortunately if trolling it's proving reasonably effective :?
 

Cold Roses

Juniors
Messages
1,793
Fan favorites yep, probably your favorites - yep, value for money - nope


Gotta say I agree 'somewhat' with this. Ben Henry's development in particular has made Bakuya's retention somewhat unecessary. I for one thought he (Bakuya) was one of our better forwards against Manly, but only because the rest of the pack bar Matulino under performed so badly.

Rapira in particular receives a huge amount of love on this forum when in fact, if people took off the rose tinted glasses and assessed things realistically, they would see that, yes, he has a big heart, yes, he puts in his all for the club, and yes, when fit, he is reliable, but how often does he actually put in the dominant performances you need from a frontline starting prop.


Here's a quick example. Rapira has received a lot of love as compared to Matagi this year, but a brief look a their respective stats for the year shows that they aren't that far apart in terms of work rate.

Sam Rapira. Played 13 TK 288 ARM 1194 HU 112

Suaia Matagi Played 18 TK 271 ARM 1626 HU 117

Sure Rapira has played five fewer games, and shows a better defensive work rate, but are these stats so far apart as to explain the disappointment that people have with Matagi as opposed to Rapira? I would also suspect that Matagi's actual playing minutes aren't as high as Sams as well. Could be wrong though.

And as for the injury explanation, people obviously didn't notice the heavy strapping that Matagi was carrying on one leg up until about 3 games ago, so both of them have suffered in that respect.

Matagi is obviously not quite the player that he was last year, and there may be reasons for that, but I really don't think that he and Rapira are that far apart in terms of performance. Matagi also has the advantage of bending the line more and causing trouble for opposition defenders. The reality is that Rapira doesn't do that as often. Watch the Brisbane game from about a month ago and you'll see what I mean. Thaiday and co. absolutely monstered Sam at the point of contact and were as a result able to get back into the defensive line quickly because of it.

But Rapira still gets talked up and Matagi doesn't. Why?

I don't necessarily agree with everything Iron Lion is saying, but he does have some valid points.

What concerns me is that people seem to be happy to stick with players simply because they are long serving club men or fan favourites. I'd trade Rapira for Jesse Bromwich or James Graham in a heartbeat given the chance. Because those guys are the sort that put in performances that give you the chance to win premierships.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,576
What concerns me is that people seem to be happy to stick with players simply because they are long serving club men or fan favourites. I'd trade Rapira for Jesse Bromwich or James Graham in a heartbeat given the chance. Because those guys are the sort that put in performances that give you the chance to win premierships.

Totally agree. If we want to win a premiership things have got to change.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,366
Here's a quick example. Rapira has received a lot of love as compared to Matagi this year, but a brief look a their respective stats for the year shows that they aren't that far apart in terms of work rate.

Sam Rapira. Played 13 TK 288 ARM 1194 HU 112

Suaia Matagi Played 18 TK 271 ARM 1626 HU 117

Rapira had very dominant games before he got injured at the start of the season, he was close to the best on the park for us a couple of times.

The stats only really tell part of the story. A hit up may chew through a lot of metres but not be very effective, while other hit ups might only be a few metres but punch a hole in their line and set up the next play.

Also five extra games is plenty, it says a lot that their stats are about even.

What concerns me is that people seem to be happy to stick with players simply because they are long serving club men or fan favourites. I'd trade Rapira for Jesse Bromwich or James Graham in a heartbeat given the chance. Because those guys are the sort that put in performances that give you the chance to win premierships.

Nobody is saying Rapira is better than Bromwich and Graham, they're up with the best of the comp. Of course I'd trade one of them for Rapira too.

And I'm no Rapira fan boy either, I'm just rubbishing the talk that he isn't up to first grade standard, is under performing, should be dropped etc.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,855
Matagi and Rapira are both good props - to suggest Rapira is not established is pretty dumb... nobody has argued either are in the league of J Brom or Graham. My issue is Rapira is impt if Matulino stays on the edges - and the answer to a propping shortage is not to put a winger there at the business end of the season

Bukuya has been playing ok, again to suggest otherwise is dumb (again, look at the numbers)... he perhaps (because of other reasons) can't fulfil the role McFadden wants for him, but that's a different issue.

And it is geniused to suggest Bukuya is dropped because he's not playing up to his pay packet.
 
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