Team vs Cowboys

[Casper The Ghost]

Because they'd both be poor attacking centres too. They're not quick enough off the mark.

Horo and Lasalo are back-rowers mate. That's why they play in the back-row.

You do know why they call him Penguin don't you? Hint: it's not because a dog massacred him and his mates at Manly wharf last year.

The idea was to bust the line or at least get through the line and then offload the ball inside or out to a speedster like a Burt. We should also use Fui like this which SK has started doing.

Because he moves like a Penguin! Wasn't it Ray Hadlee & his boys who nicknamed him Penguin?

 

[eel01s]

I don't get all the love for Walker on the wing. Yes he has scored a try but he offers zero in defence. I think I honestly prefer Etu at this stage. However, I am disappointed that Hicks isn't showing enough to be selected over Etu.

 

[The Colonel]

Because he moves like a Penguin! Wasn't it Ray Hadlee & his boys who nicknamed him Penguin?

No, it was because he resembled Graeme "The Penguin" Bradley.

Because they'd both be poor attacking centres too. They're not quick enough off the mark.

Horo and Lasalo are back-rowers mate. That's why they play in the back-row.

:lol: Both are centres who made the switch to the backrow in the lower grades in much the same way that Ben Smith has in the top grade. To top it off both are as quick off the mark as any of our centres are at the moment. Defensively, either would be a better option too.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

I don't get all the love for Walker on the wing. Yes he has scored a try but he offers zero in defence. I think I honestly prefer Etu at this stage. However, I am disappointed that Hicks isn't showing enough to be selected over Etu.

Would love for Hicks to prove many of us wrong but against the Panthers he looked like a very slow player without the strength to be an NRL winger anymore.

Biggest disappointments in the old brigade are Fats and Hicks, we really could do with these boys getting their NRL mojo back.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The idea was to bust the line or at least get through the line and then offload the ball inside or out to a speedster like a Burt.

They can do this from the wide back-row spots. Better even, because they have an extra support player than at centre. Also, at back-row they're directly lined up on the opposition halves.

To do what you suggest at centre would require the guy to isolate his opposite number enough to also commit the opposing winger. That kind of play needs enough explosive speed to force the confrontation before the cover defence gets there; explosive speed that neither Horo, Lasalo nor Ben Smith have.

There are a few back-rowers in the NRL who are quick enough to be effective attacking centres but in every case they're more valuable in the back-row.

We should also use Fui like this which SK has started doing.

It's not just Kearney. Anderson used Fui like this; Brian Smith even used him like this back in '05.

When the gameplan us to run traffic at one of the opposition halves, you'll often find front-rowers attacking wide of centrefield. Especially the faster ones like Fui and Carl Webb.

Ten years ago it was popular to play 'upside down' inside the attacking 20. You'd always see front-rowers running out wide and the more elusive wingers and centres in the middle of the field.

Because he moves like a Penguin! Wasn't it Ray Hadlee & his boys who nicknamed him Penguin?

From the mid-80s to the mid-90s there was a centre named Graeme Bradley who Ben Smith resembles. Bradley's nickname was Penguin. He was part of Penrith's grand final side in 1991.

You were around then weren't you? Or is it all lost in a haze of weed and antidepressants?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

:lol:

lol

Both are centres who made the switch to the backrow in the lower grades in much the same way that Ben Smith has in the top grade.

You mean because they were too slow?

To top it off both are as quick off the mark as any of our centres are at the moment.

Lasalo maybe but Horo's definitely too slow. Quick big men are worth their weight in gold, and if he was that quick he wouldn't have taken so long to make first grade.

Defensively, either would be a better option too.

No way.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

No, it was because he resembled Graeme "The Penguin" Bradley.

:lol: Both are centres who made the switch to the backrow in the lower grades in much the same way that Ben Smith has in the top grade. To top it off both are as quick off the mark as any of our centres are at the moment. Defensively, either would be a better option too.

Thanks for clarifying the Penguin and I agree with you about them playing in the centers. With an improved wonky knee and strength in his leg drive his lateral movement should be a bit better now. He could handle the center position for the rest of 2011.

Come on SK/Arthur's, please drop Etu and move Smith to center and Morgan to wing. This is the least you could do for our squad against the Cowgirls. Reddy & Smith on either side is a huge improvement on what we presently have. This creates room for an extra forward on the bench or the opportunity to bring in someone like a Loko or O'Hanlon to play a few 10/15 minute stints. Start grooming more of our young fellas please.

 

[True EEL]

^^ Morgan should be dropped before Etu (.....just)

 

[The Colonel]

You mean because they were too slow?

No. Lasalo was moved into the centres because we had a lack of big bodies in the NYC due to injuries. Horo's career was always destined for the backrow because of his size rather than lack of speed. Both are as quick as Morgan and would probably hit the line quicker.

Lasalo maybe but Horo's definitely too slow. Quick big men are worth their weight in gold, and if he was that quick he wouldn't have taken so long to make first grade.

There are few out and out speedsters playing in the centres in the NRL. Many are converted wingers who were too slow or backrowers who were too slight of build in much the same way as centres become backrowers.

No way.

As opposed to Morgan, Walker, Whatuira or Reddy...... yes. When Maitua is again up to the speed of the NRL again I can see one of the three making their way into the centres.....

 

[True EEL]

Colonel you old stager,

what is your opinion on either B. Smith or Horo playing centre for us at NRL level now?

edit. or Lasalo for that matter.

 

[The Colonel]

Smith isn't a centre anymore, either defensively or offensively.

Lasalo or Horo, imo, would be a much better option than any centre we have named in recent weeks. My biggest issue though would be that we would strengthen one position while weakening another and that it would be of little use moving them until Maitua is up to the speed of the NRL again.

11. Hindmarsh
12. Smith
13. Maitua

3. Horo
4. Lasalo

wouldn't be out of place the way the current game plan takes place.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

They can do this from the wide back-row spots. Better even, because they have an extra support player than at centre. Also, at back-row they're directly lined up on the opposition halves.

To do what you suggest at centre would require the guy to isolate his opposite number enough to also commit the opposing winger. That kind of play needs enough explosive speed to force the confrontation before the cover defence gets there; explosive speed that neither Horo, Lasalo nor Ben Smith have.

There are a few back-rowers in the NRL who are quick enough to be effective attacking centres but in every case they're more valuable in the back-row.



It's not just Kearney. Anderson used Fui like this; Brian Smith even used him like this back in '05.

When the gameplan us to run traffic at one of the opposition halves, you'll often find front-rowers attacking wide of centrefield. Especially the faster ones like Fui and Carl Webb.

Ten years ago it was popular to play 'upside down' inside the attacking 20. You'd always see front-rowers running out wide and the more elusive wingers and centres in the middle of the field.



From the mid-80s to the mid-90s there was a centre named Graeme Bradley who Ben Smith resembles. Bradley's nickname was Penguin. He was part of Penrith's grand final side in 1991.

You were around then weren't you? Or is it all lost in a haze of weed and antidepressants?

Agreed Poupou.

I thought it was Hadley & co who made the Penguin comparison of Smith with Bradley.

No, the green green grass of home was left behind in 1978 when I turned 21 and antidepresents are not my go and anyway, if I needed a fix, the aggro, abuse and ridicule on this forum would be sufficient to dampen or heighten sensory effects stimulated from life all around.

 

[DeanPay98]

All true.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRmc9IPGmiA

The only thing that allows the defenders to move up quickly on a hit-up is how quickly the runner gets to the advantage line. That's all. If Keating has all this time to f**k around before passing to his runners then I suggest the runners aren't timing their runs properly. Because if they were timing their runs properly with him f**king around he'd be throwing a bunch of forward passes, which he doesn't do.

Face it: Keating's been chosen as a scapegoat, and nothing he ever does will be good enough. But if he was as sh*t as you're saying he wouldn't have been re-signed multiple times.

Are you really suggesting a bloke could make it to first grade at hooker without being able to pass from the ground? That kind of talk borders on conspiracy theory. No wonder Casper agrees with you.



I agree Keating isn't good at drawing defenders away from his supports but as you suggest, this is because he doesn't run the ball enough to get defenders thinking about him.

Cam Smith is nothing special running the ball but he takes the defence on just enough that he can effectively make defenders commit to him. This creates space for his supports.

Note, few hookers do this well. That's why most of them either run or pass. Except for last year when our hookers and halves were encouraged to play off the cuff, Keating's dummy-half service has been fine.

Useful link, footage of Keating playing might have been more helpful. Do I need to remind you that we support the same club? I'm not suggesting that Keating is a crap player. What I think is that a weakness has crept into his game and that it has not yet been adequately corrected. The timing of the run and the pass is a two-way street. If the pass is slow the runner has to slow to receive it and then accelerate after receiving it. The service from Maguire, and Kingston before him, was crisper.

I don't think that Keating's dummy half service has been fine. But that doesn't mean that I don't think he can improve or that he's not first grade standard in any way. He is clearly a good athlete, he has good pace and a reasonable amount of upper body strength. All of which would be useful in his running game. But he needs to improve his technique.

As for re-signing Keating; I'm just going to remind you that we let Hodkinson go in 2008 and we let Kris Keating go in 2010. We now find ourselves short of a halfback. Surely, I don't need to add anything to that where the logic of our retention and recruitment decisions are concerned? Its not a conspiracy, its just incompetence.

 

[True EEL]

Smith isn't a centre anymore, either defensively or offensively.

Lasalo or Horo, imo, would be a much better option than any centre we have named in recent weeks. My biggest issue though would be that we would strengthen one position while weakening another and that it would be of little use moving them until Maitua is up to the speed of the NRL again.

11. Hindmarsh
12. Smith
13. Maitua

3. Horo
4. Lasalo

wouldn't be out of place the way the current game plan takes place.

thanks for your comments, and although i tend to agree about B. Smith in the centres, one last hurrah there might be worth it to see how he goes, otherwise he might be of little value to the team, as he offers little impact as a sub from the bench and is struggling to find his niche starting....which worries me?? :?

i think chancing Horo in the centres could be worth it - particularly in today's game, as you alluded too - and maybe even Lasalo. I had high hopes for Lasalo at the start of the season, but thus far he has been sub-par

i take your earlier comments that Joel's D is sometimes suspect, but i will be very relieved to see him back this week, but Morgan scares the hell out of me......he cannot read the defence and we need another centre....?

and in terms of using one of them in the centres weakening our backrow, you will still have 1-2 of the three i have mentioned to go back to the backrow, plus i still think Shackleton can play in the backrow, plus potentially Allgood, or Rogers at lock.......hell, even Jeff Robson at lock....:shock:

hmm, Jeff Robson at lock.....if it was good enough for Brett kenny, it would be sure good enough for Jeff Robson....and he's not much smaller than Mark Laurie.....one of our best locks ever!

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Smith isn't a centre anymore, either defensively or offensively.

Lasalo or Horo, imo, would be a much better option than any centre we have named in recent weeks. My biggest issue though would be that we would strengthen one position while weakening another and that it would be of little use moving them until Maitua is up to the speed of the NRL again.

11. Hindmarsh
12. Smith
13. Maitua

3. Horo
4. Lasalo

wouldn't be out of place the way the current game plan takes place.

That's another good option Colonel.

Are you listening SK/Arthur's?????

Listen to your fans - we know better.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Nah that's fair enough.

You dopes all know better than the people who get paid to make these decisions.

As for re-signing Keating; I'm just going to remind you that we let Hodkinson go in 2008 and we let Kris Keating go in 2010.

Logical fallacy, son.

Not recognising untried talent in the lower grades is not the same as seeing potential that might not be there.

This is why you're an amateur and the pros are pros.

For the record, Keating is no solution to our current weaknesses, and Hodkinson would be useful to us right now for his kicking game, but he's hardly a world beater. We're not the first club to let him go either.

 

[Avenger]

Where is Billy Rogers ? Is he injured ? If not I reckon who could be a late inclusion for Ben Smith.

 

[spartan2153]

Nah that's fair enough.

You dopes all know better than the people who get paid to make these decisions.



Logical fallacy, son.

Not recognising untried talent in the lower grades is not the same as seeing potential that might not be there.

This is why you're an amateur and the pros are pros.

For the record, Keating is no solution to our current weaknesses, and Hodkinson would be useful to us right now for his kicking game, but he's hardly a world beater. We're not the first club to let him go either.

He only left manly because they couldnt afford to keep him. Its not like he wasnt wanted. He even put off signing to see if manly could work something out.

Hodkinson woiuld be like andrew johns to our team

 

[Avenger]

I would give my eye teeth for Sam Williams and Gareth Widdop.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Hodkinson woiuld be like andrew johns to our team

So how come he's not like Andrew Johns to his own team?