Team vs Cowboys

[Avenger]

So how come he's not like Andrew Johns to his own team?

Well he did get man of the match on the weekend.

 

[DeanPay98]

Nah that's fair enough.

You dopes all know better than the people who get paid to make these decisions.



Logical fallacy, son.

Not recognising untried talent in the lower grades is not the same as seeing potential that might not be there.

This is why you're an amateur and the pros are pros.

For the record, Keating is no solution to our current weaknesses, and Hodkinson would be useful to us right now for his kicking game, but he's hardly a world beater. We're not the first club to let him go either.

The pro's might be pro's but the whole point of a fan forum is to exchange views on the game and the team. But if you don't want to offer a defence or counter-view on Matt Keating that's fine. I think I understand your view anyway.

Hodkinson and Kris Keating are a much better halves combination than our current pairing. I would rather have them. Logical fallacies or otherwise.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well he did get man of the match on the weekend.

And that makes him like Andrew Johns? I think Joey got man-of-the-match a few more times than that.

In three games Hodgson's got as many try assists as Morts (2).

In the same three games he's got 11 missed tackles and 10 ineffective.

Mortimer has only 6 missed and 2 ineffective.

Obviously the Bulldogs are this year's March premiers but if we're not playing as well as them it's not our halves' fault. Likewise, the Bulldogs are getting great momentum and dominating in the ruck. Any halves would play well behind that, including Robson and Mortimer in 2009.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The pro's might be pro's but the whole point of a fan forum is to exchange views on the game and the team.

I agree, but you don't see me saying what the coach should do, or why I know better than professional coaches. I spend my time and energy trying to understand the coaching decisions I see, and explaining them for others.

We can certainly exchange views on the game without implying we know better than the people who make several hundred thousand dollars a year to know about footy.

But if you don't want to offer a defence or counter-view on Matt Keating that's fine.

What counter view? I said my piece and you replied by rephrasing your point. You offered nothing new for me to reply to.

I think I understand your view anyway.

Well I hope so, because in my day job I get paid for my ability to explain complicated things to idiots. It's a skill I pride myself on.

Hodkinson and Kris Keating are a much better halves combination than our current pairing. I would rather have them. Logical fallacies or otherwise.

Indeed they are but I guarantee you they're on a lot more money. Do you really think the club intends to keep Robson and Mortimer beyond this year? We want a gun in the halves, and neither Hodkinson nor Keating is it.

Sure we could have Keating and Hodkinson this year if we'd made different recruitment decisions but that would stop us recruiting someone better for next year. Don't forget we bought two promising young halves in the off-season. Murray might be sh*t right now but think about what he's just been through. He was better in NYC last year than either Hodkinson or Keating were, and Bruest was a f**king magician on the weekend.

But I'm confident we're on the prowl for a quality half next year. At best it'll be Quade Cooper; at worst it'll be Peter Wallace or Ben Hunt.

 

[CrazyEel]

at worst it'll be Peter Wallace or Ben Hunt.

So what happened to your gun half theory, you can't seriously be suggesting it was worth sacrificing Hodkinson and Keating for Wallace or Hunt?

 

[DeanPay98]

Well I hope so, because in my day job I get paid for my ability to explain complicated things to idiots. It's a skill I pride myself on.



Indeed they are but I guarantee you they're on a lot more money. Do you really think the club intends to keep Robson and Mortimer beyond this year? We want a gun in the halves, and neither Hodkinson nor Keating is it.

Sure we could have Keating and Hodkinson this year if we'd made different recruitment decisions but that would stop us recruiting someone better for next year. Don't forget we bought two promising young halves in the off-season. Murray might be sh*t right now but think about what he's just been through. He was better in NYC last year than either Hodkinson or Keating were, and Bruest was a f**king magician on the weekend.

But I'm confident we're on the prowl for a quality half next year. At best it'll be Quade Cooper; at worst it'll be Peter Wallace or Ben Hunt.

I agree on Breust and Murray (very much so given the last few months). We'll just have to see how they develop.

As to Hodkinson and Keating being paid more .... we are 600K under the cap.

As to understanding the coaches decision and not thinking that I might know better (hey, its possible), do you adopt the same approach to politics? If not, why not?

As for explaining things to idiots --- now this is just a guess, but do you work in IT?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So what happened to your gun half theory, you can't seriously be suggesting it was worth sacrificing Hodkinson and Keating for Wallace or Hunt?

Wallace is better than both Hodkinson and Keating, and Hunt will be better than all of them.

We mightn't end up with a proper gun half for 2012, but we'll get someone better than what we've got, and also better than either Hodkinson or Keating.

I don't know why you rate them so highly anyway. What have either of them ever done to justify such big money?

The only truly gun playmaker available for next year is Cooper. But there's also a handful of guys better than our two and the Bulldogs' two. With the money we've got to spend we're bound to get one of them. It's simple economics.

 

[CrazyEel]

Wallace is better than both Hodkinson and Keating, and Hunt will be better than all of them.

We mightn't end up with a proper gun half for 2012, but we'll get someone better than what we've got, and also better than either Hodkinson or Keating.

I don't know why you rate them so highly anyway. What have either of them ever done to justify such big money?

The only truly gun playmaker available for next year is Cooper. But there's also a handful of guys better than our two and the Bulldogs' two. With the money we've got to spend we're bound to get one of them. It's simple economics.

Actually I don't rate them highly at all, but neither do I rate Wallace who, apart from one good year, has done very little of any note and has shown he is incapable of organising the Broncs when Lockyer is not there. Hunt may or may not develop, at this stage he is probably in the same boat as morts IMO.

I do however believe Hodkinson would have been a vast improvement over Robson to be the filler until we actually can sign a real gun half instead of being forced to accept the likes of Wallace or Hunt who are no better than Hodkinson anyway.

 

[Far Canal]

Gents - you can't have a decent half pairing if your forwards are average or in our case below average.

Hodkingson at the Eagles and now at the Dogs (like K Keating) was/are playing behind above average packs. It gives them room to move and not be rushed into plays.

I am suprised no-one has mentioned how our pack is too one dimensional. No-one can off load , the yards are hard to come by and and they just don't seem to scare anyone. We have a pussy pack.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I agree on Breust and Murray (very much so given the last few months). We'll just have to see how they develop.

Either of them could end up Origin class. It's a bit early to make any predictions but the potential's there.

As to Hodkinson and Keating being paid more .... we are 600K under the cap.

I thought I pre-empted this point.

You're right we're a mile under the cap, and yes we could've afforded to have both Hodkinson and Keating in our team this year. That would put us $0 under the cap which would be much better than $600k under it. However, I'm certain neither would've wanted a one year contract, and so we'd have that extra $600k of cap space tied up not just this year but for the next 2-3 years minimum.

And I just don't think either is better than average. I put them both in Morts' class to be honest - he's played in 4 finals matches; Keating and Hodkinson have played 1 between them. And Morts still has some growing to do; the other two are fully grown.

We want that extra $600k cap space so we can throw $800k at a gun. Failing that we can throw $400k+ at someone like Wallace or Mullen. There's also the rumours about Cooper Cronk's release clause. We could probably get him for $500k or $600k. Then there's up and comers like Ben Hunt and the Pommy kid at Melbourne. All better than Keating or Hodkinson; don't forget they're other clubs' rejects.

As to understanding the coaches decision and not thinking that I might know better (hey, its possible), do you adopt the same approach to politics? If not, why not?

No I don't, and the reason is that nobody really knows politics. What they know is how to justify putting their own interests first. After that it's a matter of who can justify themselves to the masses loudest.

Also, I don't argue politics because it's futile. The truth is less important to people than what's in it for them. I'm sure I'm no different there.

As for explaining things to idiots --- now this is just a guess, but do you work in IT?

For someone who spends so much leisure time on the computer I'm actually a bit of an IT-numpty.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Actually I don't rate them highly at all, but neither do I rate Wallace who, apart from one good year, has done very little of any note and has shown he is incapable of organising the Broncs when Lockyer is not there.

Well I do rate Wallace. As for his form without Lockyer, you take him out of any side and they'll struggle, just because he's such a dominant personality in everything they do. To take Lockyer out leaves a massive hole in the team that can't be filled as easily as throwing in a replacement player. Team cohesion suffers too much.

I'm sure if Wallace (and the team and the new number 6) had an entire off-season to prepare for life without Lockyer he'd go a lot better.

Hunt may or may not develop, at this stage he is probably in the same boat as morts IMO.

Hunt was outstanding in NYC. Better than Murray, way better than Morts.

I do however believe Hodkinson would have been a vast improvement over Robson

I agree. Maybe not a vast improvement but an improvement. But Hodkinson's on double to triple what Robson's on. He's not the sort of player you can keep around as a backup; he's chewing up too much of the cap.

to be the filler until we actually can sign a real gun half

And here's my point.

Hodkinson didn't want to be "filler"; he wanted a long contract on big money and he got it at the Dogs. No other club wanted to pay him that kind of cash after one average season in first grade.

 

[Craig Johnston]

how did ben smith not get dropped for that effort?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

how did ben smith not get dropped for that effort?

They must've thought he'd be keen to make up for it this week.

Senior players don't deserve the arse after one bad game.

 

[Craig Johnston]

They must've thought he'd be keen to make up for it this week.

Senior players don't deserve the arse after one bad game.

he hasn't even been on the starting side lately.

 

[CrazyEel]

Well I do rate Wallace. As for his form without Lockyer, you take him out of any side and they'll struggle, just because he's such a dominant personality in everything they do. To take Lockyer out leaves a massive hole in the team that can't be filled as easily as throwing in a replacement player. Team cohesion suffers too much.

I'm sure if Wallace (and the team and the new number 6) had an entire off-season to prepare for life without Lockyer he'd go a lot better.

Hunt was outstanding in NYC. Better than Murray, way better than Morts.

I agree. Maybe not a vast improvement but an improvement. But Hodkinson's on double to triple what Robson's on. He's not the sort of player you can keep around as a backup; he's chewing up too much of the cap.

And here's my point.

Hodkinson didn't want to be "filler"; he wanted a long contract on big money and he got it at the Dogs. No other club wanted to pay him that kind of cash after one average season in first grade.

We'll as we have opposing opinions on Wallace and Hunt I don't see the point of arguing just for the sake of it.

I believe we could have had last year and this year out of Hodkinson (he apparently approached us to return pre 2010) for a lot less than what the dogs paid for him. That would have given us 2 years of his service over Robbo and as we had spare cash anyway paying even three times what we paid Robson would have been worth it IMO.

It would still have left us with the same amount of cap available next year to search for a gun half without the added pressure of having had to carry the likes of Robson for two years while we searched.

Any strategy which leaves us with Robbo and Morts as our only option is a very poor one IMO and as I don't share your regard for Wallace and Hunt you can understand why that prospect doesn't excite me in the least.

 

[Eelementary]

I thought Walker played well on Friday. Yes, he missed a few tackles. But he also made a few great one-on-one tackles, and that try he scored was very good - a simple try, sure. But he had the presence of mind, due to his experience, to put the ball down in the way he did to ensure it wasn't a double movement. I am happy for him to play for us tbh.

 

[Swiftstylez]

I laugh at the suggestions that bringing Reddy in to the side does something for our backline defence....... our right side defence has leaked points for two years or more and the one player appearing mostly at that centre position is Joel. He'll bring some experience but that any such notion that he will help our defence is laughable.

AHAHAHAHAHHA MAN YOU ARE SO HILARIOUS. Laughable even!

One Word: Grothe.

He was an animal in attack, especially getting out of our own end and one of the only players that could consistently put their hand up for making an effort but he often made the dumbest decisions in defense. Not even Hindmarsh could have covered at center his poor judgement at times.

"Okay it's three on two... we are out numbered... should I let the inside slide or should I rush in and hope for the best despite there being two guys outside of me... the ball isn't out here yet but let's go in anyway, cbf calling them out... ahhh meh, the center will cover 'em"

Reddy is amazing to have last as long as he has in this rabble.

It's time for this team to f**king stand up. Last home game was depressing to be at... the atmosphere was f**king sh*thouse and rightfully so. "This is our home" yeahh okay our home of straw maybe.

 

[Parra Pride]

It's time for this team to f**king stand up. Last home game was depressing to be at... the atmosphere was f**king sh*thouse and rightfully so. "This is our home" yeahh okay our home of straw maybe.

Sitting in pissing down rain while that Parra Stadium bloke rambled on about how iconic Parra stadium is or whatever didn't do any favours for any atmosphere there may have been.

 

[Parra Guru]

AHAHAHAHAHHA MAN YOU ARE SO HILARIOUS. Laughable even!

One Word: Grothe.

He was an animal in attack, especially getting out of our own end and one of the only players that could consistently put their hand up for making an effort but he often made the dumbest decisions in defense. Not even Hindmarsh could have covered at center his poor judgement at times.

"Okay it's three on two... we are out numbered... should I let the inside slide or should I rush in and hope for the best despite there being two guys outside of me... the ball isn't out here yet but let's go in anyway, cbf calling them out... ahhh meh, the center will cover 'em"

Reddy is amazing to have last as long as he has in this rabble.

It's time for this team to f**king stand up. Last home game was depressing to be at... the atmosphere was f**king sh*thouse and rightfully so. "This is our home" yeahh okay our home of straw maybe.

I actually agree with Colonel on this point. Grothe barely played last year and we still oozed points down that side.

I don't know whether it's Joel or if the problem is starting further in, but the winger was always blamed for the defence on that side, yet there were a few wingers tried in the position.

 

[Swiftstylez]

I actually agree with Colonel on this point. Grothe barely played last year and we still oozed points down that side.

I don't know whether it's Joel or if the problem is starting further in, but the winger was always blamed for the defence on that side, yet there were a few wingers tried in the position.

Which is why we kept going back to Grothe, because even though his defence was questionable, he was still the best winger option that we had.

Also, I still don't think that we leaked as many points on the right hand side when he didn't play just quietly.

Sitting in pissing down rain while that Parra Stadium bloke rambled on about how iconic Parra stadium is or whatever didn't do any favours for any atmosphere there may have been.

This is true, but at that stage I didn't care because I thought we had turned a new chapter after the warriors win that I was willing to sit in the rain even through toyota cup. WOOOOOO.