Tennis

[Smug Panther]

Hopefully Nadal is fit for the semi. Would be a good matchup if so. Unless Kyrgios explodes mentally I'd have him as favourite. The flipside of Nadal losing is I'd been pretty keen to see a Djokovic vs Kyrgios Grand Slam match, they've completely avoided each other in Grand Slams, let alone a final.

Fritz really shouldn't have lost that match but then again he shouldn't have lost to Djokovic in last year's Australian Open in a near identical situation. Players 10 years younger than Djokovic and Nadal still have so much trouble beating them in BO5s. Crazy.

Clear 2 best ever........bye bye Fed

 

[Game_Breaker]

Nadal playing mind games by saying he’s not sure if he’ll even play the semi final

 

[LatK7]

Clear 2 best ever........bye bye Fed

He would be rolling through these guys too. He did at the same age & even older. There's just an enormous gap the younger guys can't workout how to overcome, which is something given the old guard aren't the players they once were.

 

[Smug Panther]

He would be rolling through these guys too. He did at the same age & even older. There's just an enormous gap the younger guys can't workout how to overcome, which is something given the old guard aren't the players they once were.

Fed might not even be top 3 ever and I love that his fan can't cope

 

[LatK7]

Fed might not even be top 3 ever and I love that his fan can't cope

You can place them anyway you like. Some of your posts seem emotional about that topic, but I hope you continue to enjoy what's left of these guys.

 

[Smug Panther]

You can place them anyway you like. Some of your posts seem emotional about that topic, but I hope you continue to enjoy what's left of these guys.

Your emotional rants about "Gen Next" are always enjoyable

 

[Apey]

Your emotional rants about "Gen Next" are always enjoyable

He's right though. Lost count of how often Djokovic or Nadal or even Fed when he was active would get outplayed by a younger guy in the first couple of sets in BO5 only to end up winning anyway. Yeah they're GOATS but there's still a massive mental and maybe endurance (which is crazy) hurdle there that pops up considerably less in BOF3.

Compare to that the ATP Tour Finals where none of the Big 3 have won since 2015 despite all winning multiple grand slams since then, in Djokovics case 10+.

The top younger guys can do BOF3 but they're largely MIA vs Djokovic/Nadal in slams. They've won 2 between all of them, and 1 was when Djokovic got defaulted.

They won't win any more slams until Djokovic and Nadal are dead on their feet or have retired.

 

[Smug Panther]

He's right though. Lost count of how often Djokovic or Nadal or even Fed when he was active would get outplayed by a younger guy in the first couple of sets in BO5 only to end up winning anyway. Yeah they're GOATS but there's still a massive mental and maybe endurance (which is crazy) hurdle there that pops up considerably less in BOF3.

Compare to that the ATP Tour Finals where none of the Big 3 have won since 2015 despite all winning multiple grand slams since then, in Djokovics case 10+.

The top younger guys can do BOF3 but they're largely MIA vs Djokovic/Nadal in slams. They've won 2 between all of them, and 1 was when Djokovic got defaulted.

They won't win any more slams until Djokovic and Nadal are dead on their feet or have retired.

Because they are the 2 best ever and still playing very well

 

[LatK7]

1 was when Djokovic got defaulted.

And the other two didn't play it. I don't think there's been a lower quality major final than that one.

Agree that a big part of it is mental, probably the biggest part. The other part is simply their games. I was coached ages ago before the power baseline days, but the problems appear obvious and I can't work out why they weren't coached out years ago. I've mentioned it at times here I think (one Smug Panther may have enjoyed), but moving forward is one of the biggest. Nadal's groundstrokes as an example are often almost dropping into the service box...the point should be over by hitting a simple winner, but they're standing back at the baseline to hit a rally ball. I think the next kid who can manage a complete, all court game will win everything all the time.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Fed might not even be top 3 ever and I love that his fan can't cope

Just means you can’t be taken seriously if that’s your opinion

 

[Smug Panther]

Just means you can’t be taken seriously if that’s your opinion

Is he better than Laver? I'm not sure before my time but he's clearly and definitively behind Nadal and Joker

 

[Game_Breaker]

Is he better than Laver? I'm not sure before my time but he's clearly and definitively behind Nadal and Joker

I’ll say he’ll smash Laver if both played in their primes.
Nadal is the GOAT on clay, the claim he’s better overall falls apart when you look at how many non clay GS he’s won. Novak will have a better claim
Fed also had to compete with other legends early in his career and then had Novak and Nadal chasing him.

I honestly think the weak mentality of the current young players makes them look better than they actually, but you can only beat what’s in front of you

 

[Apey]

I’ll say he’ll smash Laver if both played in their primes.
Nadal is the GOAT on clay, the claim he’s better overall falls apart when you look at how many non clay GS he’s won. Novak will have a better claim
Fed also had to compete with other legends early in his career and then had Novak and Nadal chasing him.

I honestly think the weak mentality of the current young players makes them look better than they actually, but you can only beat what’s in front of you.

I don't like Djokovic but its hard to argue he's not the GOAT. A lot of the stats can be twisted to suit whoever you want to be the GOAT though.

Eg. By surface Nadal has 14 Clay slams, 8 non-Clay. Djokovic has 12 HC slams, 8 non-HC. Two hardcourt slams works pretty heavily in Djokovics favour, just like a lack of Grass tournaments in general works against Fed.

Similarly, as far as players played goes, I'd argue Nadal is the most disadvantaged there rather than Fed. Nadal played prime Fed and prime Djokovic. The other two have considerably less cross-over with each other's primes. Mostly because Fed is 5 years older and Djokovic was a much later bloomer than Nadal who was a teenage prodigy.

Then you compare Nadal vs Djokovics h2h which is very even but a lot of them were on clay which disadvantages Djokovic. Etc etc

Either way if the other two didnt exist, each individual would be on 30+ slams. I think Djokovic will end up with more slams partly because he will outlast them both and no other players have really stood up.

 

[LatK7]

Either way if the other two didnt exist, each individual would be on 30+ slams. I think Djokovic will end up with more slams partly because he will outlast them both and no other players have really stood up.

Good post all round, agreed.

 

[Smug Panther]

Nick is in a slam final baby!!!!!

 

[Wizardman]

Another domino has fallen for Kyrgios.....incredible! He has had the softest draw to make a Wimbledon final that I've seen in a very long time. Credit to him to be there for the last game......this should be the kickstart to finally fulfilling his incredible talent. I hope he beats Nole on Sunday.

 

[Apey]

Sad, but Kyrgios has a better chance at beating Djokovic than Nadal does at the moment.

 

[Valheru]

Djokovic has hardly looked infallible during this tournament either so Nick has a red hot chance.

I'm also not completely counting out Norrie tonight either, he will have a raucous crowd behind him.

How would Tim Henman be feeling? After death riding the bloke all week he now lives in a world where Kyrgios has gotten further at Wimbledon than he did in his pathetic career lol

 

[LatK7]

I'm also not completely counting out Norrie tonight either

You're a man of faith, Norrie has nothing to hurt Djokovic.

Such a weird tournament. Nick's path of Nakashima/Garin is something out of an ATP 250. Norrie usually wouldn't be anywhere near a Wimbledon SF either.

I think Nick will be physically ready to roll with all the rest, but well underdone to take on Djokovic. I hope it's a good final, the tournament really needs it.

 

[Apey]

Djokovic has hardly looked infallible during this tournament either so Nick has a red hot chance.

Kyrgios has the game to beat him, just depends how he holds up mentally on his biggest occasion. Kyrgios has probably been in better form even, Djokovic is just a short favourite because of his experience and status, rather than setting the world on fire this tournament.

As a Nadal fan... go Kyrgios.