Thank you Benji

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

By that logic, you would also say that Benji is a superior defender to JWH, Napa, Greg Bird, Taia, Latu, Mcqueen, Elijah Taylor and Hodgson, and equal to Josh Jackson and Ennis.

See how using stats without context makes you look like a moron?

I was using stats to compare widdop and Benji's defence. I have no interest in comparing benji with Napa, or Mcqueen or any of the other forwards you mention. The only reason for raising it was because the opinion was given that Widdops defence was much better than Benji's. Well not from what I have seen, and yes the statistics back that up.

 

[Maximus]

I was using stats to compare widdop and Benji's defence. I have no interest in comparing benji with Napa, or Mcqueen or any of the other forwards you mention. The only reason for raising it was because the opinion was given that Widdops defence was much better than Benji's. Well not from what I have seen, and yes the statistics back that up.

No you didn't use stats. You used 1 incredibly flawed stat, and I used that exact same stat to back up the opinion that Benji is a better defender than Dylan Napa and the rest of the players I listed. Your usage of stats is a joke.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

No you didn't use stats. You used 1 incredibly flawed stat, and I used that exact same stat to back up the opinion that Benji is a better defender than Dylan Napa and the rest of the players I listed. Your usage of stats is a joke.

Whatever blockhead. If you reckon Benji is a better defender than Napa based on your use of statistics, go for it.

 

[Sigurd]

No you didn't use stats. You used 1 incredibly flawed stat, and I used that exact same stat to back up the opinion that Benji is a better defender than Dylan Napa and the rest of the players I listed. Your usage of stats is a joke.

You are right that stats can be misleading. You are wrong in suggesting Widdop is a better defender than Marshall. I know you didn't say it but it seems that is what you are suggesting. I have watched about half the total game time of the Dragons this year. I have seen Widdop jump out of the way of opposition ball carriers 4 times (Darius Boyd, Hurrell nd 2 Warriors players that day their NSW Cup/U20s team beat us). Not as a result of an overlap or anything like that but opposition players running straight at Widdop and Widdop jumping out of the way. I'm wondering whether they would be counted as missed tackles. What do you think?

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

You are right that stats can be misleading. You are wrong in suggesting Widdop is a better defender than Marshall. I know you didn't say it but it seems that is what you are suggesting. I have watched about half the total game time of the Dragons this year. I have seen Widdop jump out of the way of opposition ball carriers 4 times (Darius Boyd, Hurrell nd 2 Warriors players that day their NSW Cup/U20s team beat us). Not as a result of an overlap or anything like that but opposition players running straight at Widdop and Widdop jumping out of the way. I'm wondering whether they would be counted as missed tackles. What do you think?

Yes stats can be misleading. They don't tell you the context of the tackle or whether they were hard or easy tackles, whether the tackler was chasing someone down or it was big man up against small man. Yes there are many uncertainties in the statistics. But what else have you got? Your opinion against mine? At least the stats introduce a level of neutrality to the argument.

 

[Sigurd]

Yes stats can be misleading. They don't tell you the context of the tackle or whether they were hard or easy tackles, whether the tackler was chasing someone down or it was big man up against small man. Yes there are many uncertainties in the statistics. But what else have you got? Your opinion against mine? At least the stats introduce a level of neutrality to the argument.

Of course but when it comes to Widdop, a lot of fans clutch at straws trying to defend him. Marshall is a better defender. I wouldn't even call it an opinion.

 

[Country Dragon]

Of course but when it comes to Widdop, a lot of fans clutch at straws trying to defend him. Marshall is a better defender. I wouldn't even call it an opinion.

Thank you Mrs Marshall!

 

[coast_dragons]

Marshall isn't really good at anything.

Widdop isn't any better they are both on par as shithouse halves who have no organisational skills what so ever and horrible in game situations.

Widdop has and never will be a 5/8 and the Dragons yet again have tried to convert a player into something he isn't.

Marshall has and wlays will be a one tricky pony who plays for himself and 9 times out of 10 looks like an utter goose doing it.

I'd be happy if they got rid of both.

 

[Maximus]

Whatever blockhead. If you reckon Benji is a better defender than Napa based on your use of statistics, go for it.

It's your statistics not mine. You're the one who claimed that a missed tackles stat is proof of who is a better defender.

You are right that stats can be misleading. You are wrong in suggesting Widdop is a better defender than Marshall. I know you didn't say it but it seems that is what you are suggesting. I have watched about half the total game time of the Dragons this year. I have seen Widdop jump out of the way of opposition ball carriers 4 times (Darius Boyd, Hurrell nd 2 Warriors players that day their NSW Cup/U20s team beat us). Not as a result of an overlap or anything like that but opposition players running straight at Widdop and Widdop jumping out of the way. I'm wondering whether they would be counted as missed tackles. What do you think?

And I've been watching Benji for more than a year and have seen him do it plenty of times throughout his career.

Yes stats can be misleading. They don't tell you the context of the tackle or whether they were hard or easy tackles, whether the tackler was chasing someone down or it was big man up against small man. Yes there are many uncertainties in the statistics. But what else have you got? Your opinion against mine? At least the stats introduce a level of neutrality to the argument.

How about not just using 1 stat and claiming it is proof? How about looking at the percentage of attack that goes down their respective sides, and comparing their tackle count to it? If 60% of the attack goes down one side, but they make less tackles, are they a better defender? Can't miss a tackle when you don't attempt one.

How about looking at how many tries each one saves? How about looking at how each one diffuses attacking kicks? I guess you wouldn't look at either of those as both significantly favour Widdop.

There is nothing wrong with using stats to support an argument. There is something seriously wrong with using a stat like missed tackles and providing no context.

 

[Maximus]

Of course but when it comes to Widdop, a lot of fans clutch at straws trying to defend him. Marshall is a better defender. I wouldn't even call it an opinion.

Neither would I. I'd call it a delusion.

 

[Old Timer]

Whoa, that was quite an outburst.

It's not surprising Marshall hasn't found a new club...yet. He has been bad this year and injured for half of it. The point is that as bad as Marshall has been, Widdop has been absolutely diabolical. Jumping out of the way of opposition ball carriers is actually the least of his worries. That's how bad he is. Yet as far as we all know, it's Marshall being shown the door and not Widdop. That's why I say there must be something going on behind the scenes we aren't privy to.

I honestly hope Farrah and Benji end up together so hopefully you might go and follow them.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

It's your statistics not mine. You're the one who claimed that a missed tackles stat is proof of who is a better defender.



And I've been watching Benji for more than a year and have seen him do it plenty of times throughout his career.



How about not just using 1 stat and claiming it is proof? How about looking at the percentage of attack that goes down their respective sides, and comparing their tackle count to it? If 60% of the attack goes down one side, but they make less tackles, are they a better defender? Can't miss a tackle when you don't attempt one.

How about looking at how many tries each one saves? How about looking at how each one diffuses attacking kicks? I guess you wouldn't look at either of those as both significantly favour Widdop.

There is nothing wrong with using stats to support an argument. There is something seriously wrong with using a stat like missed tackles and providing no context.

Yes, all fair and reasonable points. If I had all those stats I would have used them. But the NRL stat site doesn't give me those, not does it give context, so I went with what I had. I never claimed it was proof, just prima facie evidence. I was trying to refute the claim that widdop is a superior defender to Benji. From the games ive watched, he isn't.

 

[Old Timer]

Would love for us all to go to a theatre one day and watch a few games and do a post mortem on all the things we talk about on here.
Now a good CEO would fix the auditorium and do that for the loyal fans and I dare say some of us would happily pay for the opportunity to yell and scream as our favourite and not so favourite players go about their work.

 

[Sigurd]

Thank you Mrs Marshall!

You are welcome Mrs Widdop. You must own half the accounts on this forum. How to do you do it? Do you keep a database of usernames and passwords?

 

[Sigurd]

I honestly hope Farrah and Benji end up together so hopefully you might go and follow them.

No. I can understand that guy a few pages back who said he was quitting but I'm not. I am absolutely certain that while Widdop is a playmaker (and I can't see where else he would play.) the team will aim to scrape into the finals at best. A wooden spoon will however be more likely.

 

[coast_dragons]

Who gives a shit about stats.

How does it matter when you lead stats at a club that can't even score more than 14 points a game.

Marshall and Widdop are both poor they both don't lead and both need to be moved on i just wish Widdop was off contract this year to.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

Who gives a shit about stats.

How does it matter when you lead stats at a club that can't even score more than 14 points a game.

Marshall and Widdop are both poor they both don't lead and both need to be moved on i just wish Widdop was off contract this year to.

I'm sure 72% of blog posters agree with you.

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer said:
"I honestly hope Farrah and Benji end up together so hopefully you might go and follow them."

Sigurd said in reply:
"No. I can understand that guy a few pages back who said he was quitting but I'm not. I am absolutely certain that while Widdop is a playmaker (and I can't see where else he would play.) the team will aim to scrape into the finals at best. A wooden spoon will however be more likely."

And the relevancy of your post to mine was?????????

 

[coast_dragons]

I am just glad to see the back end of Marshall and Rein.

Marshall doesn't need a thank you he got that when the club gave him a chance and a hell of alot of money.

 

[Sigurd]

Neither would I. I'd call it a delusion.

Fine. So on what basis do you call Widdop a better defender? I know you didn't actually say it but the suggestion is unmistakable. My basis for saying Marshall is better is from watching the games this year (I just remembered Ben Hunt running over the top of Widdop in the same game he jumped out of the way of Darius Boyd when Boyd ran straight at him), from seeing the stats JohnnoMcJohnno provided (which merely reinforced what I already knew) and seeing the at least 4 times Widdop has jumped out of the way of opposition ball runners.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but you can be absolutely sure opposition runners targeted Marshall more. They wanted Widdop fresh to impose his brilliant ball playing and running on tiring opposition but not so much for Marshall.