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The 2014/15 Off Season Thread

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Poupou Escobar

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And was defeated by a coalition of Christian states, and to this day the German people remain (needlessly) disgraced and humiliated by that episode of their past.

The Nazis represented the brief triumph of the animal (evolutionary) instinct of nationalism over the Christian tenet of compassion. But still, all of Germany's (Christian) neighbours forgave her, giving us the European Union.
 
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Didn't Hitler say that religion and national socialism could not co-exist?

That whole "Hitler/Christian" thing is bullshit. It was never a reason for what he did, so there fore using it as a comparison shows nothing but ignorance.
 
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Didn't Hitler say that religion and national socialism could not co-exist?

That whole "Hitler/Christian" thing is bullshit. It was never a reason for what he did, so there fore using it as a comparison shows nothing but ignorance.

He was certainly not a pro-active Christian. But he killed people for the simple fact of their religion (and for various other reasons).I was replying to a post that chose to make a generalisation about the types of societies that different religions have encouraged/allowed to develop. I'll wager that I've got just as fair an understanding of 20th C history as you....but off you go...play the man...accuse those who disagree with you of ignorance.
 

Poupou Escobar

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I was replying to a post that chose to make a generalisation about the types of societies that different religions have encouraged/allowed to develop.

Sorry Barry, are you saying that Christian/Western civilisation has produced the same (general) range of societies as has the other major religions?

Do you believe Western atheists are generally no different from atheists at the other end of the Eurasian landmass?
 
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And was defeated by a coalition of Christian states, and to this day the German people remain (needlessly) disgraced and humiliated by that episode of their past.

The Nazis represented the brief triumph of the animal (evolutionary) instinct of nationalism over the Christian tenet of compassion. But still, all of Germany's (Christian) neighbours forgave her, giving us the European Union.

I agree that Germans have nothing at all to be ashamed of.

The Nazis were defeated by a coalition of (largely) Christians, other religions (Hindus under Britsh Control, North African and Middle Eastern states/colonies included Jews and Muslims,) and non-religious states (I don't think you'll find that the USSR were formally religious at least, and informally included groups of several denominations and religions partic. in the Caucasus), including one major player who wanted nothing to do with it until directly attacked by an Axis power a few years into the war.

The same European Christians watched while the Sudetenland and similar shit went on. I get that, people were tired. But he had the Jewish people running right from the start, and for fundamentally evil reasons. And the society that spawned him did not do enough enough to help his victims at the time. This doesn't make Christian societies baddies. They're not. But if one is to blame particular religions for the behaviour of the societies in which they are dominant, it ain't so black and white.
 
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Sorry Barry, are you saying that Christian/Western civilisation has produced the same (general) range of societies as has the other major religions?

Do you believe Western atheists are generally no different from atheists at the other end of the Eurasian landmass?

No and no. Societies are a product of a lot of different stuff, and the direction of causation is not always religion >>>> society (however you choose to measure/define the quality or range of quality of societies). I am going to say that the reasons underpinning the development of what we might agree are more civilised / tolerable societies are not simple.
 

Poupou Escobar

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But if one is to blame particular religions for the behaviour of the societies in which they are dominant, it ain't so black and white.

Well of course it is. I'm not saying people act up because of their social religion. When people treat each other like swine it is because we are animals and that is how animals treat each other. It is our religio-culture that causes us to behave otherwise - our 'better natures'. The strength of how well we treat each other, and how often (when we do) is what distinguishes one culture/religion from the next.

As for Hitler, I believe Christian cultures are more likely than other cultures to produce monsters because Christianity is more tolerant of individual difference than other religions.
 
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Well of course it is. I'm not saying people act up because of their social religion. When people treat each other like swine it is because we are animals and that is how animals treat each other. It is our religio-culture that causes us to behave otherwise - our 'better natures'. The strength of how well we treat each other, and how often (when we do) is what distinguishes one culture/religion from the next.

As for Hitler, I believe Christian cultures are more likely than other cultures to produce monsters because Christianity is more tolerant of individual difference than other religions.

Yep. Fair enough.
 

Poupou Escobar

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No and no. Societies are a product of a lot of different stuff, and the direction of causation is not always religion >>>> society (however you choose to measure/define the quality or range of quality of societies). I am going to say that the reasons underpinning the development of what we might agree are more civilised / tolerable societies are not simple.

No they're not simple Barry, but it's quite obvious you're doing your best not to concede any correlation at all.

Edit - except just here:

Yep. Fair enough.
 
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No they're not simple Barry, but it's quite obvious you're doing your best not to concede any correlation at all.

Edit - except just here:

;-)

I know where you're coming from, and I'm (probably) just as uncomfortable with what I see happening in the world today. But I guess I just see religious (and non-religious) persuasions as reflecting the society in which they develop (or developed) to a similar extent to which they influence those societies. Doesn't help, I know. But it is what I believe.
 

TheParraboy

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Well of course it is. I'm not saying people act up because of their social religion. When people treat each other like swine it is because we are animals and that is how animals treat each other. It is our religio-culture that causes us to behave otherwise - our 'better natures'. The strength of how well we treat each other, and how often (when we do) is what distinguishes one culture/religion from the next.

As for Hitler, I believe Christian cultures are more likely than other cultures to produce monsters because Christianity is more tolerant of individual difference than other religions.


where is the statistical proof of this? (no cherry picking please)
 

Gronk

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Record company fail.

Dear Bono,

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