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The 2014/15 Off Season Thread

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TPB, there's no doubt that the "animal" part of Poo's post is correct. If you need stats for that then you're an idiot.

As for the religion bit...it could be that religion is nothing more than a codification of our innate moral aspects...that has subsequently been screwed by our innate animalistic merkinry. Equally as plausible is Poo's statement - that a lot of our morality comes from the fact that we have religion to act as a social binder.

Personally, I think it's the former.
 

Poupou Escobar

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I don't necessarily think the two are mutually exclusive, in the sense that we are more likely to share more genes with the people who also share our culture. Therefore if morality is indeed 'innate', and I suspect it might be, then it's likely that we will share our innate morality with the people most closely related to us.

Which would explain why not all religions are the same, as indeed, neither are all atheist moralities.
 

Suitman

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Snow in Blackheath tonight.

Bz51lMsCIAAM1ot.jpg
 

TheParraboy

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TPB, there's no doubt that the "animal" part of Poo's post is correct. If you need stats for that then you're an idiot.

As for the religion bit...it could be that religion is nothing more than a codification of our innate moral aspects...that has subsequently been screwed by our innate animalistic merkinry. Equally as plausible is Poo's statement - that a lot of our morality comes from the fact that we have religion to act as a social binder.

Personally, I think it's the former.



There are many nations on the planet that don't have nor need to have a religious culture for the people to be happy and be civil.

I agree religion does have some morality TO SOME, to a lot of others its how they were raised, government, laws of the land to name a few. People will commit crimes and "act like animals" regardless of religious culture
 
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I f**ken love snow. Those lucky, lucky bogans. I'd be breaking out the xmas lights and the scotch and cigars...and no doubt it would be miserable slush by 9am. If that's what global warming can do then I just became an Abbott supporter.
 

TheParraboy

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Those pics are insane, terrible weather last 12 hours

hope the cricket goes ahead tomorrow in Blacktown
 

Poupou Escobar

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I f**ken love snow. Those lucky, lucky bogans. I'd be breaking out the xmas lights and the scotch and cigars...and no doubt it would be miserable slush by 9am. If that's what global warming can do then I just became an Abbott supporter.

No Australian politician can affect climate change.
 
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Global Warming is producing...snow in October?

Um...

Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot - when the Earth actually stopped warming they changed it to Climate Change, didn't they? I guess now they can claim anything and everything and that fuzzy terminology gives them all the wiggle room they need...
 

Gronk

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Global Warming is producing...snow in October?

Um...

Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot - when the Earth actually stopped warming they changed it to Climate Change, didn't they? I guess now they can claim anything and everything and that fuzzy terminology gives them all the wiggle room they need...

Amazing how people can ignore science when it doesn't suit their political agendas.

From Scientific American (a respected publication est 1845)

New research released yesterday links human-caused climate change to six of 12 extreme weather events from 2012, including summer heat waves in the United States and storm surges from Superstorm Sandy.
Teams of scientists from around the world examined the causes behind extreme weather events on five continents and in the Arctic. Their results were published as a special report in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.
One of the stronger linkages between global warming and severe weather was found in an analysis of last year's high July temperatures in the northeastern and north-central United States.
Noah Diffenbaugh, the Stanford researcher who led that report, found that climate change had made the likelihood of such a heat wave four times more likely than in a world without elevated levels of greenhouse gases. He and fellow researcher Martin Scherer were able to determine this by running models with current levels of greenhouse gases as well as ones that reflected preindustrial levels and examining the relative likelihood of the heat wave.
"It's clear that our greenhouse gas emissions have increased the likelihood of some kinds of extremes," Diffenbaugh said.
Other scientists, led by Thomas Knutson, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory, looked at 2012's hot spring temperatures over the eastern United States and also found that human influences contributed about 35 percent to late spring heat that year.
"[A]nthropogenic forcing leads to a factor of 12 increase in the risk of such an event, according to our calculations," the scientists write in the report.
Links to heat are easier to prove
Another extreme of 2012 was the Great Plains drought. Unlike the studies that linked the heat to climate change, researchers did not find that the lack of precipitation was related to climate change. Another research team did find that a winter drought in Spain and Portugal was partially driven by climate change.
Researchers also examined heavy rains and flooding that occurred in many parts of the world last year. They concluded that the heavy rains in Europe last year were likely due to natural variability in the climate system rather than climate change.
Tom Karl, the head of NOAA's National Climatic Data Center, also cautioned that the science of linking precipitation changes to climate change is complex.
"It is very hard to attribute a specific human contribution to a change in precipitation, although we do have more confidence in the changes in heat," Karl said.
In some other parts of the world, climate change was linked, although in a small way, to extreme precipitation events.
New Zealand experienced an extreme two-day rainfall in December 2011; researchers said 1 to 5 percent more moisture was available for that event due to climate change, which is increasing the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.
Australia also experienced record rainfall in early 2012, and while La Niña, a natural variation, was behind much of that, researchers found that human-caused climate change increased the chance of the above-average rainfall by 5 to 15 percent.
Increased frequency of 'Sandy-like' disasters
Another clear example of where climate change is having an effect is the impact of storm surges on the eastern coast of the United States. Although storms like Superstorm Sandy are incredibly rare, sea-level rise has made a Sandy-level inundation event 50 percent more likely than it was in 1950 in areas like the Battery and Sandy Hook, said William Sweet, a NOAA oceanographer.
The research Sweet conducted suggests that, from Atlantic City south, the type of storm surge that would have been a once-in-a-century event in 1950 is likely to occur every couple decades by 2100, because of sea-level rise.
"We conclude that coastal communities are facing a looming crisis due to climate change related sea-level rise, one that will manifest itself as increased frequency of Sandy-like inundation disasters in the coming decades along the mid-Atlantic and elsewhere, from storms with less intensity and lower storm surge than Sandy," Sweet said.
The entire report contains 19 different examinations of various weather or climate events in 2012. Although 12 events were analyzed, some were investigated in multiple ways using different methodologies.
According to NOAA's Karl, this approach makes the study more robust.
"One of the things we've learned over the past decades is for us to have confidence in our results, what we need to do is to have different approaches to analyzing the data and the model results," Karl said.
This is the second time the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society has collected information on the previous year's weather extremes and tried to tease out the role of climate change in those events. The researchers involved in the effort stressed that the science of attribution, or of linking specific events to climate change, is still young and evolving.
"The more we do this in the future ... the easier it's going to get," said Peter Stott, a researcher at the U.K. Met Office Hadley Center and an editor of the report. "This is really quite an exciting research area, and it has a real potential to provide answers to people asking questions in their particular location."
Want more science ? Do your best to discredit these merkins.
There are numerous examples of increased extreme weather frequency already being attributed to humans in the published peer-reviewed scientific literature. For example, Pall et al. (2011):
"Here we present a multi-step, physically based ?probabilistic event attribution? framework showing that it is very likely that global anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions substantially increased the risk of flood occurrence in England and Wales in autumn 2000"
Min et al. (2011):
"Here we show that human-induced increases in greenhouse gases have contributed to the observed intensification of heavy precipitation events found over approximately two-thirds of data-covered parts of Northern Hemisphere land areas."
Dai et al. (2011):
"All the four forms of the PDSI show widespread drying over Africa, East and South Asia, and other areas from 1950 to 2008, and most of this drying is due to recent warming. The global percentage of dry areas has increased by about 1.74% (of global land area) per decade from 1950 to 2008."
Zwiers et al. (2011):
"Therefore, it is concluded that the influence of anthropogenic forcing has had a detectable influence on extreme temperatures that have impacts on human society and natural systems at global and regional scales"
Coumou & Rahmstorf (2012):
"Here, we review the evidence and argue that for some types of extreme ? notably heatwaves, but also precipitation extremes ? there is now strong evidence linking specific events or an increase in their numbers to the human influence on climate. For other types of extreme, such as storms, the available evidence is less conclusive, but based on observed trends and basic physical concepts it is nevertheless plausible to expect an increase."
Hansen et al. (2012):
"we can state, with a high degree of confidence, that extreme anomalies such as those in Texas and Oklahoma in 2011 and Moscow in 2010 were a consequence of global warming because their likelihood in the absence of global warming was exceedingly small."
Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center GISS and Scientific Visualization Studio
Like Hansen et al., Donat and Alexander (2012) found that global warming has made extreme heat waves more likely to occur.
"...there is a 40% increase in more recent decades in the number of extreme temperatures defined by the warmest 5% of the 1951?1980 distribution."
Like Coumou & Rahmstorf, Otto et al. (2012) found that global warming contributed to the intensity of the extreme 2010 Russian heat wave, concluding there was
"...a three-fold increase in the risk of the 2010 threshold being exceeded, supporting the assertion that the risk of the event occurring was mainly attributable to the external trend."
While it is very difficult to attribute individual weather events to global warming, we do know that climate change will 'load the dice' and result in more frequent extreme weather events.
The IPCC Special Report on Managing the Risks of Extreme Events and Disasters to Advance Climate Change Adaptation (SREX), also discusses the relationship between human-caused climate change and various types of extreme weather events. For example, the SREX says:
"It is likely that anthropogenic influences have led to warming of extreme daily minimum and maximum temperatures at the global scale. There is medium confidence that anthropogenic influences have contributed to intensification of extreme precipitation at the global scale. It is likely that there has been an anthropogenic influence on increasing extreme coastal high water due to an increase in mean sea level."
and
"Extreme weather and climate events, interacting with exposed and vulnerable human and natural systems, can lead to disasters."
On drought, the SREX finds:
"There is medium confidence that some regions of the world have experienced more intense and longer droughts, in particular in southern Europe and West Africa, but in some regions droughts have become less frequent, less intense, or shorter, for example, in central North America and northwestern Australia."
The SREX also has important conclusions regarding future drought changes:
"There is medium confidence that droughts will intensify in the 21st century in some seasons and areas, due to reduced precipitation and/or increased evapotranspiration. This applies to regions including southern Europe and the Mediterranean region, central Europe, central North America, Central America and Mexico, northeast Brazil, and southern Africa."
This conclusion is supported by Dai (2010), for example:
"Regions like the United States have avoided prolonged droughts during the last 50 years due to natural climate variations, but might see persistent droughts in the next 20?50 years"
Research by Emanuel (2012), Grinsted et al. (2013), and Holland and Bruyère (2013) concluded that global warming has already led to more intense hurricanes. Elsner et al. (2008) found that:
"With the exception of the South Pacific Ocean, all tropical cyclone basins show increases in the lifetime-maximum wind speeds of the strongest storms ... Our results are qualitatively consistent with the hypothesis that as the seas warm, the ocean has more energy to convert to tropical cyclone wind."
As Grinsted et al. noted,
"we have probably crossed the threshold where Katrina magnitude hurricane surges are more likely caused by global warming than not."
LINK

head-in-sand.jpg
 

Twizzle

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I dont see where it says it was supposed to snow in Sydney last night.

Also, the reason the oceans levels are increasing is because we stopped the Japs from killing too many whales and it also getting full of crashed planes and sinking boats, or too many boats.

true story
 

Poupou Escobar

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There's certainly a lot of marketing produced by the climate change industry. I guess the product doesn't sell itself.
 

Gronk

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Even the true believers don't understand the science. They just believe what they're told.

You're painting a picture here that the people on the pro side are mainly ignorant with a sheep mentality.

However, it could be just as easy to say the same about those who are siding with the conservative tight arse right.

Might be best to analyse the facts rather than dwell on personalities ?
 

Daneel

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Especially when there are people around called skeptics

Aren't both sides of the argument skeptics? Someone says global warming is happening a bunch of skeptics show up to disagree, someone says the world is fine and a bunch of skeptics show up to disagree with that. Therefore unless you are sitting on the fence we are all skeptics
 
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