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The 2014/15 Off Season Thread

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Gronk

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Senator Penny Wong‏@SenatorWong2h2 hours ago
Christopher Pyne and his friends turn out to support his Higher Education Bill

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Gronk

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A letter to Fred.

G'day Fred,
I suppose congratulations are in order for your triumph over the dark forces of homosexual love with the defeat of a bill to legalise same-sex marriage in NSW Parliament this week.
You characterised it as "a great victory for marriage", like marriage was at a bar somewhere on Macquarie Street ordering manly schooners of Victoria Bitter (shandies for the ladies) after the 21-19 vote in the upper house.
Then again, you do believe a man was born to a virgin mother, with no biological father, and rose from the dead under strict supervision from his real dad who lives in the sky so, if you wanna anthropomorphise "marriage", I guess you'll have your way.
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Regarding the above wisecrack, I hate to bring religion into this but, hell, your opposition to same-sex marriage is based largely on your faith, isn't it?
As part of your campaign to oppose the bill you wrote to supporters: "Christian friends, we must pray and seek Almighty God's victory over this Bill which has originated in the depths of hell, as it is an attack on Almighty God's Creative Purposes for the human race, that marriage can only be recognised as between a male and a female, a man and a woman, not between two men or two women."
I thought someone had made up that quote to paint you as a fanatic but nope, here it is on your Christian Democratic Party website. (By the way, I dig how you capitalised "creative purposes", Fred. Nothin' like an upper case letter to put the fear of God into twinkies.)
Anyway, you being an evangelical Christian (the charter of your party lists your very first aim as "to advance the glory of God through the institution of Parliament"), I'm guessing the big game here for you is more untouched Christian bottoms on church pews, nodding along, believing what you want 'em to believe.
Having been brought up a Christian, I thought I'd let you know it's the words and actions of people like yourself that first made me question what faith I possessed, then drove me away from Christianity, when I realised the whole "love and tolerance" thing only applied to a very small proportion of humans - those who think exactly like you.
Ignoring the ludicrousness of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God even caring what two people do when in bed together (or how I address Him in prayer or whether I can bash out a column on a Sunday), it frustrates me that people like yourself are happy to cherry-pick which parts of the Bible you take literally and which you do not.
I'm guessing when your kids were naughty, Fred, you didn't - as directed by the Bible - beat them with a rod (Proverbs 13:24, 20:30, and 23:13-14) or when they gave you some backchat about doing their homework, you didn't kill them (Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Mark 7:9-13, and Matthew 15:4-7).
I'm also guessing you don't literally believe, as the Bible states, we should put people to death for being magicians, saying God doesn't exist, adultery, homosexuality, working on the Sabbath and worshipping graven images.
Why? Because I think, deep in your heart, you know the Bible is not the literal word of God but a series of texts compiled over many centuries by a huge, disparate group of clever men.
And I'd suggest you also recognise even the Bible has to move with the times and, what may have been laudable 2000 years ago - like selling your daughter into sexual slavery (Exodus 21:7-11) - is not so cool in Australia in 2013.
So let's be clear: this has nothing to do with the word of God and the Bible - it's merely how you're interpreting it, and your interpretation on this issue, I suspect, is based on one thing alone.
You want to deny homosexuals the honour and recognition modern society accords two people who publicly choose to say they love each other above any and all.
You can capitalise "Almighty God's Creative Purposes" but we both know procreation is not a prerequisite for marriage.
If it was, we wouldn't let infertile couples marry, or women who've gone through menopause (possibly like your 55-year-old bride-to-be Silvana Nero), or really old people like your 78-year-old self, or folks who plain just don't want to have children.

As former Chief Justice Margaret Marshall of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court wrote in her landmark 2003 decision Goodridge v. Department of Public Health, marriage's primary purpose is not in procreation, but in an "exclusive, loving commitment between two partners".
You do not want to honour or recognise this as possible between two men or two women and, in doing so, you're actively trying to cap, limit and legislate the amount of love in this world.
That doesn't sound very Christian to me.
The only consolation I have as I write this piece (as a straight man, never-married, who has procreated) is an image I see of you, Fred - frail, confused, standing on a beach, trying to hold back the ocean with a broom.
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-sty...ound-very-christian-to-me-20131115-2xjfm.html
 

Poupou Escobar

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Silly old Fred. If 'true' marriage requires God's blessing then the state has no power to allow or deny an 'untrue' marriage such as between homosexuals/divorcees/whomever. It's just two dudes kissing in a park. Why should Fred care?
 

oldmancraigy

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Actually Pou, there ARE civil unions in Australia (ie, the 'state marriage') for homosexuals. My guess would be that Fred DOES care about those, but that hasn't been his (current) campaign.

What Fred is campaigning against is changing the marriage act - which prescribes a union between a man and a woman, and childbirth being one of the things that may follow. From a secular, humanist, point of view, the research does suggest that these (nuclear?) family units (when stable) are the backbone of a strong society, and provide the more stability than any other kind of union.
I'm not sure that would be Fred's argument (and it isn't very popular to put forward) - but it is why so many MPs vote against the bill (they aren't all Fred Nile are they???)
 

spiderdan

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As former Chief Justice Margaret Marshall of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court wrote in her landmark 2003 decision Goodridge v. Department of Public Health, marriage's primary purpose is not in procreation, but in an "exclusive, loving commitment between two partners".
what does love have to do with two people of the same gender wanting to shag each other? gay/lesbian sexual attraction and love aren't necessarily linked (i doubt most people loved everyone they shagged).
 

Gronk

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I think Fred and the rest of his merkin mates who still live in the dark ages, should acknowledge that 2014 society is far different now. Using their "GOD" in any argument no longer holds water.
 

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spiderdan

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and people who bag religion in the name of science seem to conveniently neglect concepts like evolution, biology and genetics when they try argue their point for the normalcy of same sex attraction. i don't know if there is an all powerful being out there but i don't think the concept is any more unrealistic than nothing going "BANG!" in the middle of a place that doesn't exist where nothing else exists (the big bang is an event that like any event needs a time and a place two occur, as well as a reaction between two things that are there to happen).

your point about society being vastly different these days is fair and if people of the same gender want to contribute to the divorce rate of hetro couples they should be allowed. from what i understand, the problem with civil unions though is that they don't allow for the same rights as marriage laws. there surely would be a way to tweak laws that would keep religious institutions and everyone else happy.
 
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I'm not sure why gay people want to get married, but I'm equally bemused as to why anyone wants to stop them doing so. If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry another bloke. Simples.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Actually Pou, there ARE civil unions in Australia (ie, the 'state marriage') for homosexuals. My guess would be that Fred DOES care about those, but that hasn't been his (current) campaign.

What Fred is campaigning against is changing the marriage act - which prescribes a union between a man and a woman, and childbirth being one of the things that may follow. From a secular, humanist, point of view, the research does suggest that these (nuclear?) family units (when stable) are the backbone of a strong society, and provide the more stability than any other kind of union.
I'm not sure that would be Fred's argument (and it isn't very popular to put forward) - but it is why so many MPs vote against the bill (they aren't all Fred Nile are they???)

So if homosexuals can already enter into a 'civil union' why are people trying to change the marriage act?
 

Poupou Escobar

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I think Fred and the rest of his merkin mates who still live in the dark ages, should acknowledge that 2014 society is far different now. Using their "GOD" in any argument no longer holds water.

I thought we were going out of our way, as a society, not to offend minorities. Are you saying minorities aren't entitled to protection if they used to be the majority?
 

Poupou Escobar

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what does love have to do with two people of the same gender wanting to shag each other? gay/lesbian sexual attraction and love aren't necessarily linked (i doubt most people loved everyone they shagged).

Exactly. Marriage, love and sex are three different things - demonstrably so - but somehow they get conflated in these marriage equality arguments and the media never takes them to task. Is this one of those lies we maintain as a society, along with the inherent equality of all human beings? Scientific evidence be damned when it suits us.

I blame Gronk.
 

lingard

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that's what you get if you watch mainstream news. boohoo the world aint square.

complaining about the coverage is worse than the actual coverage if you ask me, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the world. we did the same for steve Irwin.

this wasn't aimed at you spiderdan, just more venting towards everyone who thinks whats happening is new.

I don't agree. I'm almost sixty and I am in a position to say that this situation has gotten worse over the years. I know media has always been biased and sensationalist and all of that, but the 'news' seems to have developed into a kind of reality show where drama and sensation is the order of the day. It wasn't always this bad. My 17yr old son says that the television news is not worth watching because of its bias and its melodrama. The poor kid gets his news from the internet, but he hasn't yet realised that it is exactly the same!
I think you're wrong, Someone. I think we should bitterly complain about the media, because it's the media more than anything else that shapes our western world and turns us into little robots and good little consumers. Unfortunately, most of the time, most of us (including me) don't have the insight to see it.
 
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and people who bag religion in the name of science seem to conveniently neglect concepts like evolution, biology and genetics when they try argue their point for the normalcy of same sex attraction. i don't know if there is an all powerful being out there but i don't think the concept is any more unrealistic than nothing going "BANG!" in the middle of a place that doesn't exist where nothing else exists (the big bang is an event that like any event needs a time and a place two occur, as well as a reaction between two things that are there to happen).

your point about society being vastly different these days is fair and if people of the same gender want to contribute to the divorce rate of hetro couples they should be allowed. from what i understand, the problem with civil unions though is that they don't allow for the same rights as marriage laws. there surely would be a way to tweak laws that would keep religious institutions and everyone else happy.

Exactly. Where the hell did that super-dense ball of matter come from? I haven't yet come across a good explanation for that. Maybe we should ask that new rock-star scientist Brian Something who seems to be everywhere lately because he looks kinda cute.
 

Gary Gutful

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Exactly. Where the hell did that super-dense ball of matter come from? I haven't yet come across a good explanation for that. Maybe we should ask that new rock-star scientist Brian Something who seems to be everywhere lately because he looks kinda cute.

Pretty sure the Big Bang was a result of Brian Something popping his cookies.

#Booyah
 
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Brian Cox is kinda cute. Having said that, his latest BBC series contains some fundamental errors that can easily illustrate the bias of modern scientists to use science as a Trojan horse for atheism.

In regards to the above quote referencing that judge blabbing on about the function of marriage not being about procreation but instead love...using your brain can show that to be total bullshit (having said that, we've obviously changed it to be about whatever we want it to be these days, as we have with so many other things...)

Lastly, proponents of "marriage equality" are largely hypocrites who, in a similar fashion to the atheist scientists mentioned above, are simply hijack morality to use it as a Trojan horse to push their own personal agenda.

More on these wonderful comments tonight, unless we have another storm that leaves me stranded on Parramatta Station for 2 hours, ensuring I don't get home until 10:30pm!
 

Avenger

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Tony Abbott is an embarrassment. I actually think he may be mildly geniused. The sooner he is replaced as PM the better. Without doubt the worst Liberal PM we have her had. Hockey is also a bafoon. Why oh why didn't smiling Pete stay on?
 

Gronk

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Reducing economic growth, negative income growth for the first time since the GFC.
Australia's economy grew just 0.3 per cent in the first three months of the financial year, a low hit only once before in the past three years. The weak growth rates of 0.5 and 0.3 per cent in the June and September quarters follow much stronger growth rates of 0.8 and 1 per cent in previous two quarters. They suggest economic growth is weakening quickly, a prospect that alarms the Bank.

The central bank's board next meets on February 3. A cut in its cash rate from its present long-term low of 2.50 per cent to 2.25 per cent would take the typical discounted home loan rate below 5 per cent to 4.85 per cent, the lowest since 1970. It would slice a further $51 dollars off the monthly cost of servicing a $350,000 home loan.

The accounts show national income fell for the second successive quarter, slipping 0.4 per cent in September after slipping 0.3 per cent in June, enabling Labor's treasury spokesman Chris Bowen to claim Australia was in an "income recession", the first since the global financial crisis in 2009.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...rates-down-20141203-11zcp2.html#ixzz3KsBYjmwm

In the meantime Joe Hockey has doubled the deficit by changes to Government spending and changes to Government assumptions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/has-the-government-doubled-the-budget-deficit/5423392
 
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