The annual finals system debate thread

[BuffaloRules]

I don't mind the McIntyre system - I think the best side still wins it every year...

However, maybe its time to go back to the old sytem... Every one of the Top 4 still gets at least 1 home game under the AFL sytem ( taken from the ARL), and you eliminate that meaningless "cross over" of games in week 1 and Week 2 which happens when Teams 1 and 2 win ( which has happened just about evey time...)

 

[Knight87]

Top 5 was the best system in my Opinion.

They will never go back to it though because of all the money and sponsors and all that crap. It just annoys me under the current system that a team that a team that loses more then they Win can get into the finals and really besides that first week what reward do the Minor premiers get?

That, I agree with. Top 5 is by the best, but the NRL would never go back to it, as more games = more money. With top 5, you knew it was the best teams competing and it gives 1st and 2nd or 3rd ranked team an advantage that the top 8 doesn't = 2 chances to qualify for the GF.

In 2002, the Dragons qualified in the top 8, despite winning a measily 9 out of 24 games during the regular season!:? That mathematically wouldn't occur in a top 5 situation. I believe that no team should be in the finals if they haven't won at least 50% of games, minimum. Because of this loophole, it gives teams a chance to win the premiership, when they shouldn't be in the finals in the first place. But, once again, its all a money making incentive from the NRL. They dont care if it affects the quality of the rugby league played.

 

[Knight87]

Coincidentially, the last time there was 16 teams in the comp was in 1994, which was the last time the Top 5 finals system was used.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Top 5 was the best system in my Opinion.

They will never go back to it though because of all the money and sponsors and all that crap. It just annoys me under the current system that a team that a team that loses more then they Win can get into the finals and really besides that first week what reward do the Minor premiers get?

The minor premiers are much better off under the Mcintyre system rather than the old ARL / current AFL sytem.

They only have to beat Team 8 at home to get through to the week before the GF... a dream run and as yet not one minor premier has failed to win...

 

[Danish]

I've never seen the current system treat any of the finalists too unfairly....

Although I guess brissy got a bit of a raw deal in 2005. The Cowboys (5th) got flogged by the Tigers (4th), and then only had to beat the storm (6th) to progress the the pre-lims. This while the broncos (3rd) got edged out by the storm, then had to come up against the in form tigers who only finished a spot below them.

Seems a bit stupid to have 3rd and 5th lose, yet have 5th end up facing a much easier opponent than 3rd to redeem themselves.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I've never seen the current system treat any of the finalists too unfairly....

Although I guess brissy got a bit of a raw deal in 2005. The Cowboys (5th) got flogged by the Tigers (4th), and then only had to beat the storm (6th) to progress the the pre-lims. This while the broncos (3rd) got edged out by the storm, then had to come up against the in form tigers who only finished a spot below them.

Seems a bit stupid to have 3rd and 5th lose, yet have 5th end up facing a much easier opponent than 3rd to redeem themselves.

Yeah.. gotta agree.

This is the fault with the McIntyre system...

 

[Knight87]

Same thing happened last year. Newcastle beat Manly and St George/Illawarra beat Brisbane. Newcastle (4th) had to face a higher opponent, Brisbane (3rd), yet Manly (who lost and were 5th) got to face St George/Illawarra (6th). Both games of equal weighting (ie semis) and both to qualify for the prelims. Doesn't make sense, just like the 2005 scenario mentioned above.

 

[MSIH]

Yeah, in answer to the original question.

Manly, both years.

 

[parramaniac2516]

The minor premiers are much better off under the Mcintyre system rather than the old ARL / current AFL sytem.

They only have to beat Team 8 at home to get through to the week before the GF... a dream run and as yet not one minor premier has failed to win...

Didnt it work this way in the top 5 system and i will use the current ladder not to confuse people

Week 1

Minor Prems Manly Gets the Week off

Team 2(Storm) and 3(Parra) Play each other in the first game

Team 4(Tigers) and 5(Titans) Play each other in the second one

Loser out of (Game 2) gets kicked(Titans) out of the Finals. The winner(Tigers) plays the Loser out of (Game 1)= Parra

Week 2 would go like

Winner (Game 2)(Tigers) Vs Loser (Game 1)(Parra)= The loser gets kicked out and the winner plays the loser of the upcoming Melbourne VS Manly Game and im gonna say Parra won

Winner (Game 1)(Melbourne VS the minor prems(Manly)=The Winner Goes straight through to the Grand Final and the loser gets a second shot to get into the GF. So to explain the benefit the minor prems get i will say Manly lost.

Week 3

Now the loser out of the Melbourne vs Manly in this case its Manly would have to play the winner of the Parra vs Tigers Game.

So it would be

Parra vs Manly and the Winner gets to play the storm in the GF and the loser gets kicked out

Grand Final

Parra vs Storm

Premiers: Parra

Basically this system ensures Minor prems get the first week off and get a second bite of the cherry in week 2 and a shot to go straight through to the gf

Teams 2 and 3 get a second bite of the cherry if they lose in week 1 and if they win a chance to go straight through to the at the end of gf or if they won in week 1 and lose in week 2 they still get a shot in week 3.

Teams 4 and 5 they are the lowest ranked teams and its sudden death all the way through.

I think this system is the best because you dont have something where you know what the result will be like team 1 vs team 8. The games are close because in week 1 team 2 vs team 3 and 4 v 5 and the more consistent teams are rewarded with a extra chance and in the Minor prems case get a week off and a second chance.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Yes, I was not referring to the old top 5 system, but the top 8 system the ARL used to have and now in place with the AFL

I remember the old top 5 had its critics too.

Often the minor premier would win its semi after a week off and go straight through to the GF with another week off.

Some people used to say that the Minor premier was disadvantaged after playing only 1 week in four in the lead up to the GF, playing against a side that had been toughened up over a few weeks of semis action.

Whenever you try to have a "playoff" system and not a first past the post system ( like the English Premier League has), you are not going to get a perfect system.

Any system where the whole playoff tournament is compressed into 4 weeks is going to reward the team in the best form during that period.. this isn't always the team that played the best over the course of the year...

 

[The Engineers Room]

I thought I would get in early and propose this system:

Week 1
1 v 8 a
2 v 7 b
3 v 6 c
4 v 5 d
lowest 2 ranked losers eliminated
Week 2
highest ranked winner v 2nd highest loser e
2nd highest winner v highest ranked loser f
3rd highest winner v 4th highest winner g
lowest 2 ranked losers eliminated (re ranked according to week 1)
Week 3
highest ranked winner v highest ranked loser h loser eliminated
2nd highest winner v 3rd highest winner i loser eliminated
Grandfinal
winner h v winner i j loser eliminated


Based on the current ladder and provided all the highest ranked win

Week 1
Fri - Warriors v Eels @ Mt Smart
Sat - Cowboys v Bulldogs @ Dairy Farmers
Sat - Sea Eagles v Rabbitohs @ Brookvale
Sun - Storm v Broncos @ Olympic Park

Week 2
Fri - Cowboys v Warriors @ Dairy Farmers
Sat - Sea Eagles v Eels @ Brookvale/SFS
Sun - Storm v Bulldogs @ Olympic Park/Telstra Dome

Week 3
Sat - Storm v Warriors @ Telstra Dome
Sun - Sea Eagles v Cowboys @ Telstra Stadium

Week 4 - Grandfinal
Sun - Storm v Sea Eagles @ Telstra Stadium

 

[NK Arsenal]

Lets use the AFL 8

 

[Bumble]

Lets use the AFL 8

 

[gregstar]

no


this one is far superior.....

1) 4 v 5
2) 2 v 3

3) winner 4 v 5 V loser 2 v 3
4) winner 2 v 3 V 1

5) winner game 3 v loser game 4

6) winner game 4 v winner game 5


pity.

 

[Azkatro]

How about this finals system:

Round 25 finishes.

Team placed first are declared winners of the premiership.

Then a cup starts:

A Team 1 v Team 16\__ Winner of Game A
B Team 7 v Team 10/   Winner of Game B\___ Winner of Game A v B
C Team 5 v Team 12\__ Winner of Game C/    Winner of Game C v D
D Team 3 v Team 14/   Winner of Game D                              Winner of Top Semi
E Team 4 v Team 13\__ Winner of Game E                              Winner of Bottom Semi
F Team 6 v Team 11/   Winner of Game F\___ Winner of Game E v F
G Team 8 v Team 9 \__ Winner of Game G/    Winner of Game G v H
H Team 2 v Team 15/   Winner of Game H

Thus giving more meaning to the minor premiership (which just becomes the Premiership) and something for all other teams to play for after the end of the season proper.

 

[Johns Magic]

no


this one is far superior.....

1) 4 v 5
2) 2 v 3

3) winner 4 v 5 V loser 2 v 3
4) winner 2 v 3 V 1

5) winner game 3 v loser game 4

6) winner game 4 v winner game 5


pity.

Terrible

 

[gong_eagle]

How about this finals system:

Round 25 finishes.

Team placed first are declared winners of the premiership.

Then a cup starts:

A Team 1 v Team 16\__ Winner of Game A
B Team 8 v Team 9 /   Winner of Game B\___ Winner of Game A v B
C Team 5 v Team 12\__ Winner of Game C/    Winner of Game C v D
D Team 7 v Team 10/   Winner of Game D                              Winner of Top Semi
E Team 3 v Team 14\__ Winner of Game E                              Winner of Bottom Semi
F Team 6 v Team 11/   Winner of Game F\___ Winner of Game E v F
G Team 4 v Team 13\__ Winner of Game G/    Winner of Game G v H
H Team 2 v Team 15/   Winner of Game H

Thus giving more meaning to the minor premiership (which just becomes the Premiership) and something for all other teams to play for after the end of the season proper.

looks like the AMCO cup

 

[Azkatro]

looks like the AMCO cup

Yeah I kept changing the first round fixtures. You could tweak those a fair bit. But the way I see it, the whole idea of a finals series should be just its own separate competition.

 

[stevie013]

i love the amco cup....lol

 

[gong_eagle]

i love the amco cup....lol

used to look forward to wednesday nights , ahh the memories