The annual finals system debate thread

[Marshall_magic]

The best top 8 system is the one the AFL is currently using which is what we used in 1995-96. Same amount of games:

Week 1:

5 v 8
6 v 7
(both games elimination matches)
2 v 3
1 v 4


I mean in the McIntyre the top 4 should be safe from week 1, I know we havent seen it happen before but you never know when one of the top 4 sides is knocked after week 1. Stupid.

At least with the old ARL system you know you either through or gone after the match.

The McIntyre system you have wait until a certain game to know you're definately through or gone.

the system the AFL uses presents the same problem that the McIntyre does though.

1 and 2 both win their first game, get a week off and then come back with no second chance.

 

[dallymessenger]

the system the AFL uses presents the same problem that the McIntyre does though.

1 and 2 both win their first game, get a week off and then come back with no second chance.

hence why the top 6 way is better.

i think the NRL prefer the current system because not only does it give more games = more money, but also it gives the underdogs more of a chance, and the upsets are good for the game.

 

[Marshall_magic]

hence why the top 6 way is better.

i think the NRL prefer the current system because not only does it give more games = more money, but also it gives the underdogs more of a chance, and the upsets are good for the game.

But the top 6 you suggested provides a similar problem.

the team that wins 1 vs 2 goes straight to the grand final with 1 game in 3 weeks (they'll be underdone) and if they lose, they never get a second chance.

There is no perfect system.

 

[butchmcdick]

English SL does it, very similar to our old top 5 system.

much better as it rewards teams 1 and 2 much more than the lottery we have atm.

in 2005 parra and saints were out of their semis after 1 loss (prelim finals) whilst the cowboys lost an early final and then still made the GF.

good form over the year should be rewarded more than the current system does.

off the top of my head : week 1 top two teams get a bye.
next 4 play each other sudden death.

following week winners of the previous weeks play each other and the top 2 play each other, with the winner going straight to the GF.

the loser then plays the remaining team to see who gets into the GF.

I'm confused dally, isn't the top 6 a superleague idea ? Isn't superleague responsible for all that is evil in our game ? For you to be all turned around on the idea of superleague well, nothing makes sense anymore mate.

See you at the next broncos game resplendent in your broncos superleage jersey.

 

[dallymessenger]

But the top 6 you suggested provides a similar problem.

the team that wins 1 vs 2 goes straight to the grand final with 1 game in 3 weeks (they'll be underdone) and if they lose, they never get a second chance.

There is no perfect system.

they are in the GF though, thats the reward.

the semis should give teams 1 and 2 the best chance of making the GF and this system does that.

the current system just gives the teams that finish first more chance of making the prelim finals.

 

[dallymessenger]

I'm confused dally, isn't the top 6 a superleague idea ? Isn't superleague responsible for all that is evil in our game ? For you to be all turned around on the idea of superleague well, nothing makes sense anymore mate.

See you at the next broncos game resplendent in your broncos superleage jersey.

youll probably be at a Lions home game.

they got the idea from the ARLs top 5 system

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

2005.

teams 1 and 2 lost later on and got no lives.

in the SL system teams 1 and 2 will always get a life.

At some point in time their "life" will be lost anyway. So in the SL system does team 1 get a life when the only game they lose is the GF? or the Major Semi? No! The teams ranked 1 and 2 gat a life in the top 8 system up until the point it becomes a knockout stage. Then it is game on for everyone involved.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

they are in the GF though, thats the reward.

the semis should give teams 1 and 2 the best chance of making the GF and this system does that.

the current system just gives the teams that finish first more chance of making the prelim finals.

No! No! No!. It is no teams right to make the GF easier than any others. Their reward should be that they are guarenteed to not be bundled out of the semis race int he first week (as a reward for their seasons efforts). After that they should be on their own. At the end of the day if they are good enough it should not matter.

 

[dallymessenger]

At some point in time their "life" will be lost anyway. So in the SL system does team 1 get a life when the only game they lose is the GF? or the Major Semi? No! The teams ranked 1 and 2 gat a life in the top 8 system up until the point it becomes a knockout stage. Then it is game on for everyone involved.

yes teams 1 and 2 get a life always.

they play each other first to see who gets to the GF, and whoever loses gets another chance later on.

the teams that finish 1 and 2 are the ones who should have the most chance of making the GF.

this system rewards that

 

[dallymessenger]

No! No! No!. It is no teams right to make the GF easier than any others. Their reward should be that they are guarenteed to not be bundled out of the semis race int he first week (as a reward for their seasons efforts). After that they should be on their own. At the end of the day if they are good enough it should not matter.

so whats the point of the week to week stuff then.

you can be better all season and not get a reward in september,

thats silly

 

[NK Arsenal]

much better as it rewards teams 1 and 2 much more than the lottery we have atm.

did you watch the 2007 nrl season?

who made the grand final?

melbourne (1) and manly (2)!

if we were to change it we should use the afl system

 

[BWNB]

Should be the AFL System, its good top teams can win two home finals

 

[BN420]

Mcintyre system works IMO......No need to change something if it works!

Much more important things to change in our game atm than the finals system.
3rd party sponsorships, video ref limitations, the forward pass being the balls direction not some stupid direction of the hands crap.

 

[Eels Dude]

I'll go against the flow and agree with you Dally. I don't like the fact that mediocre teams can qualify for the finals and then due to a but of luck find themselves in a grand final qualifier. However, I also agree that whatever finals system we use, the best 2 teams should play well enough if the finals to earn their spot. If they don't, then too bad. The top teams throughout the year deserve a second chance in the finals, I'd like to the old system used ideally where the grand final qualifiers aren't neccessarily elimination.

There's too many variables however. Melbourne could be the best team all year this year, however because of origin players being unavailable for 3 wknds they could finish outside the top 2. This system punishes them for finishing 3rd even though arguable they should have finished 1st. Also, the NRL isn't going to support an idea where there are less games on tv. Currently the Mcintyre system has 9 games including the grand final. A top 6 system only allows for 6 and that's why it will never happen.

 

[dallymessenger]

did you watch the 2007 nrl season?

who made the grand final?

melbourne (1) and manly (2)!

if we were to change it we should use the afl system

2005 neither 1st or 2nd made it, and one of the teams that made the GF lost a semi by almost 50 points whilst neither 1st or 2nd got a life.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

so whats the point of the week to week stuff then.

you can be better all season and not get a reward in september,

thats silly

Well scrap the whole system and let teams 1 & 2 battle for the title in a best of 3 series. Simple.

September football is so much different to your week to week stuff. What about the team that struggled during the Origin series due to players on rep duties......why are they not rewarded then in September? Surely their disadvantage during these weeks should be compensated. End of the day, come September if you don't bring your best game you will not (nor do you deserve to) make the GF.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

2005 neither 1st or 2nd made it, and one of the teams that made the GF lost a semi by almost 50 points whilst neither 1st or 2nd got a life.

HaHaHa so you use that isolated case to make your argument, meanwhile dismissing last years GF to show the system works? What about 2006? Brisbane won but why wasn't Melbourn given the life they deserved.... they were head and shoulders above any team all year. Over a sustained period I think you will find the system rewards the right team 95% of the time.

 

[dallymessenger]

Well scrap the whole system and let teams 1 & 2 battle for the title in a best of 3 series. Simple.

September football is so much different to your week to week stuff. What about the team that struggled during the Origin series due to players on rep duties......why are they not rewarded then in September? Surely their disadvantage during these weeks should be compensated. End of the day, come September if you don't bring your best game you will not (nor do you deserve to) make the GF.

thats your reply, stop the whole series altogether.

a system which rewards the best teams all year is the fairest.

 

[IAmDancingHomer]

The current one does.. You just seem to have a problem with when they get to use their life.

 

[Patorick]

We have to keep it at eight. Ask Gallop.