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The annual finals system debate thread

Which System ARL 95/96 or McIntyre

  • ARL 95/96 which the AFL use now

    Votes: 93 59.6%
  • McIntyre System

    Votes: 63 40.4%

  • Total voters
    156

sting

Bench
Messages
3,936
what about something totally different.. i've always liked the idea of a pooled finals series. basically have 2 groups of 4 teams (eg 1,4,5,8 and 2,3,6,7 or something) have the first 3 weeks as a round robin, then the top 2 teams from each group play off in the grand final? that way you can really tell who the best team through the finals is as you would need to win consistently. advantage for finishing higher up the ladder? home ground advantage. the highest ranking team for each week would play at home. a possible downside is dead rubbers in say the third week but that's a maybe anyway. and even if there was a dead rubber the clubs could use the game to give some young'uns a run or maybe farewell a player who is leaving or something.. i dunno.. thoughts?
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
what about something totally different.. i've always liked the idea of a pooled finals series. basically have 2 groups of 4 teams (eg 1,4,5,8 and 2,3,6,7 or something) have the first 3 weeks as a round robin, then the top 2 teams from each group play off in the grand final? that way you can really tell who the best team through the finals is as you would need to win consistently. advantage for finishing higher up the ladder? home ground advantage. the highest ranking team for each week would play at home. a possible downside is dead rubbers in say the third week but that's a maybe anyway. and even if there was a dead rubber the clubs could use the game to give some young'uns a run or maybe farewell a player who is leaving or something.. i dunno.. thoughts?

Yeah no.

You summed it up yourself in regards to dead rubbers in the 3rd week. What may be a dead rubber to one club is alive for another.

Home ground advantage is not a good enough bonus for the top 2 teams. They could still lose just their first match but miss the grand final. Also it doesn't allow for many grand final combinations. The 'best' two teams could be in the same pool.
 
Messages
13,806
English SL does it, very similar to our old top 5 system.

much better as it rewards teams 1 and 2 much more than the lottery we have atm.

in 2005 parra and saints were out of their semis after 1 loss (prelim finals) whilst the cowboys lost an early final and then still made the GF.

good form over the year should be rewarded more than the current system does.

off the top of my head : week 1 top two teams get a bye.
next 4 play each other sudden death.

following week winners of the previous weeks play each other and the top 2 play each other, with the winner going straight to the GF.

the loser then plays the remaining team to see who gets into the GF.

all ur suggestion threads are so sh*t. its like uve said to urself "well my username is dallymessenger, even tho i dont go for the roosters, but he was the greatest player ever, even tho ive never seen him play. i want things to go back to what they were like in the old days, lets have 5 m rules and no interchanges and final 5s."

my suggestion to you, get a time machine.
 

gregstar

Referee
Messages
20,392
it seems some people are still determined to have the eels & dragons play the 2005 grand final.


LOL!
 

IAmDancingHomer

Juniors
Messages
83
all ur suggestion threads are so sh*t. its like uve said to urself "well my username is dallymessenger, even tho i dont go for the roosters, but he was the greatest player ever, even tho ive never seen him play. i want things to go back to what they were like in the old days, lets have 5 m rules and no interchanges and final 5s."

my suggestion to you, get a time machine.

:lol:

made my day. I love a good rant
 
Messages
10,970
all ur suggestion threads are so sh*t. its like uve said to urself "well my username is dallymessenger, even tho i dont go for the roosters, but he was the greatest player ever, even tho ive never seen him play. i want things to go back to what they were like in the old days, lets have 5 m rules and no interchanges and final 5s."

my suggestion to you, get a time machine.

hey if the threads arent to your taste, dont read them
:lol:
 
Messages
10,970
all ur suggestion threads are so sh*t. its like uve said to urself "well my username is dallymessenger, even tho i dont go for the roosters, but he was the greatest player ever, even tho ive never seen him play. i want things to go back to what they were like in the old days, lets have 5 m rules and no interchanges and final 5s."

my suggestion to you, get a time machine.

also, im guessing that post isnt an example of how you are technically gifted eh mate?
 

shear_joy9

Coach
Messages
13,626
Coaching guru Warren Ryan has attacked the NRL's McIntyre finals system as flawed with top four sides facing the prospect of being "punished" for opening week victories.

Cronulla and the Sydney Roosters are in biggest danger of being exposed by the finals format, which sees qualifying finals between the top four sides up against the bottom four this weekend.
"There are some really bad anomalies that can occur, when you can get two top four sides playing against each other in a sudden death encounter in the second week of the finals," said Ryan, a longtime opponent of the McIntyre system.
"The McIntyre system discards rankings after week one – all that you've played for all year long in terms of rankings is discarded once the first week is over."
Despite finishing the regular season tied on 38 competition points with minor premiers Melbourne and Manly, the Sharks are the most vulnerable of the top four sides in the opening week.
And worse still, the NRL says it is reluctant to tamper with a finals format which has come under heavy public scrutiny.
There have been calls for the NRL to adopt the system used by the AFL in which the top four and bottom four are split up on the opening weekend of the finals.
Ryan has also come up with his own formula, which he has forwarded to NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley, which would actually see an extra game played in the second week.
Ryan is part of the committee which meets to discuss prospective rule changes at the end of every NRL season, but the man who guided Canterbury to premiership success in 1984 and 1985 said alternative finals systems were never given an airing.
"I've never spoken about it at the rules committee meeting – they're too busy worrying about wrestling and grappling," Ryan said.
"I've been in there and seen (chief operating officer Graham) Annesley, he's got a copy of (my system) in his file somewhere.
"They're very reactive rugby league, they only react when something really blows up in their face."
Annesley claimed the finals system was reviewed on an annual basis but denied there was a push to have it changed.
"It gets approved every year, but there's been absolutely no move to change the format," Annesley said.
"The McIntyre system has served the NRL well."
Not only do Cronulla face the remote prospect of being bundled out in the first week of the finals – should the bottom four sides all win – they could also could be `punished' if all results go according to plan in week one.
Should the top four all win this weekend, Cronulla would be rewarded for beating sixth-placed Canberra by facing up against Brisbane in a knockout match in week two.
The Roosters, who finished the regular season in fourth spot six points behind the top three, would get the seemingly easier draw against the Raiders.
Should Brisbane upset the Roosters, Cronulla would get the Roosters in week two, with Brisbane facing Canberra.
If the only upset this weekend was St George Illawarra beating Manly, the Roosters would be `rewarded' for winning in week one with a second week match against the Sea Eagles.
Sharks halfback Brett Kimmorley claimed he hadn't looked too far into the permutations of how Cronulla's finals schedule could pan out.
"You've just got to look at it that you've got to win," Kimmorley said.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4686964a1823.html
 

SET2JT

Juniors
Messages
1,266
yep i belive this year the drags will beat manly and worriors will beat the storm so if the sharks lose there gone
 

alexc

Guest
Messages
448
everyone wants an easy passage ... to win the comp you have to beat the best
Exactly. I am open to different finals systems however ultimately you are going to have to beat a good team sometime during the finals.

We could go down the road of the Minor Premiership being the premiership ala english soccer. That would be fair boring though.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
anyone have any idea about warren ryans system?

I can't remember specifically but it was a lot more flawed than the current one. And was rather confusing.

It went something along the lines of the first week 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 5 v 8 and 6 v 7.... but only the lowest ranked loser got eliminated. Meaning team 7 got belted in the first week, survived, and were no worse off then the team 6 who beat them as they both went into elimination the next week anyway. Will find a link if I can.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
anyone have any idea about warren ryans system?

There ya go mate, well article about it anyway

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/13/1071125709857.html?from=storyrhs

Board powerbroker lends weight to Ryan's finals system
By Greg Prichard
December 14, 2003
The Sun-Herald

The odds about the Warren Ryan finals series model being used next season have improved significantly with NRL board member John Chalk urging clubs to consider it.

The NRL board will decide on a finals series format at a meeting late next month, after taking into account the views of the clubs, NRL chief executive David Gallop and NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley.

The choice is between three systems - the existing McIntyre system, the revamped McIntyre system being used by the AFL and Ryan's model.

Chalk said that while he had not made a final decision on which model he preferred, he was impressed by the offering from the ABC radio commentator and dual premiership coach.

"It's got merit and I think everyone involved in the decision-making process should consider it," Chalk said yesterday.

"I think there needs to be plenty of debate on the three systems and I want more time myself to think, but I'm certainly a fan of Warren's model as one option.

"The thing about Warren Ryan is that he lives and breathes rugby league and if he is prepared to put the time and effort into coming up with something like this, then I think it is worth looking at.

"I've looked at it and I believe it's definitely got potential."

The Ryan system breaks the top eight into two halves on the first weekend. In the top half the No. 1 team plays No. 4 and No. 2 plays No. 3, and the bottom half pits No. 5 against No. 8 and No. 6 against No. 7. The highest-ranked winner goes to week three and the lowest-ranked loser is eliminated. There are three knockout games in the second week and two in the third, leading into the grand final.

The system is not afraid to put top teams in against top teams or to have repeat games. And, since only one team can go from week one to week three, the second week off is an exclusive reward for the minor premiers if they are good enough to win on the first weekend.

Under the McIntyre system, the two highest-ranking winners from week one get the second weekend off.

Ryan's system has received plenty of support from club representatives since it was previewed at the NRL's annual conference this month.

Penrith chief executive Shane Richardson told The Sun-Herald it had merit and if there was a change he would prefer Ryan's model over the AFL system.

Sydney Roosters chief executive Brian Canavan said he thought Ryan's system "has got plenty going for it at first view" and the Roosters were studying it further.

"It's certainly worth considering and I think one of the best things about it is that it eliminates the possibility, which is in the McIntyre system, that you can finish in the top four and be eliminated in the first week," he said.
 

Cheops

Juniors
Messages
254
My pet hate with the system is the way teams can have identical results to a team the previous year, but get a different result

eg, the Warriors last year finished 4th, played at home to 5th and lost. They got another chance and were two wins away from the grand final. The roosters this year finished 4th and play at home to 5th. If they lose, they could be knocked out of the comp for the season. Both teams had the same ranking, had the same result against the 5th ranked team, but one year one team gets another chance while the next year, that team gets knocked out based on what happened in games that had nothing to do with them. Hardly seems fair.
 

SET2JT

Juniors
Messages
1,266
i think the current systems ok but the days the games r played r wrong.
the first game should be 1 v 8 on friday second game 2 v 7 on sat 630 that way teams 3rd 4 5 6 would know that if they lose there out
 
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