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The annual finals system debate thread

Which System ARL 95/96 or McIntyre

  • ARL 95/96 which the AFL use now

    Votes: 93 59.6%
  • McIntyre System

    Votes: 63 40.4%

  • Total voters
    156

no name

Coach
Messages
19,773
So Johnsy, what happens to first spot in Week 2? Can they be knocked out if they lose?

Week 1 (1st advances to Week 2):
2nd v 3rd
4th v 5th
6th v 7th (Loser eliminated)

Week 2:
SF1 1st v Winner 2v3 (winner to GF)
SF2 Loser 2v3 v Winner 4v5 (Loser eliminated)
SF3 Loser 4v5 v Winner 6v7 (Loser eliminated)

Week 3:
PF1 Loser SF1 v Winner SF3 (Loser eliminated)

Week 4:
PF2 Winner SF2 v Winner PF1

GF: Winner SF1 v Winner PF2

That's about the only fair way your system could work - and it would require an extra week to facilitate the twists and turns. If you're going to reduce the top eight, make it six.

1st team into GF has to wait 2 weeks for oponnent? Sh*t idea, if Minor Premiers win that they play 1 game in 5 weeks.
 

Ice777

Bench
Messages
3,120
We used the current AFL system before they did.

We should be calling it the old "ARL" system not the "AFL" one.


Don't be so precious. The AFL also used the current NRL system before as well so does that mean we should we be calling it the old AFL one?

The bottom line is that whatever system we use there's going to be many for it and many against it. You can't please everyone.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,948
1st team into GF has to wait 2 weeks for oponnent? Sh*t idea, if Minor Premiers win that they play 1 game in 5 weeks.

Illustrating my point that in magic land Johnsy's idea might have merit, but applying it in reality would be tragic.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,948
It was always called the McIntyre system Ice. This AFL system is directly derived from the ARL all those years ago so calling it their own AFL finals series is hardly true.
 

Crippler

Juniors
Messages
743
well the AFL preliminaries will be made up of the top 4 teams at season end.

So i think their system worked this year.
 

coolumsharkie

Referee
Messages
26,914
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/sharks-captain-livid-at-mcintyre-system-20080914-4g48.html

Sharks captain livid at McIntyre system

Cronulla captain Paul Gallen is filthy after being told the high-flying Sharks must play their opponents on enemy territory next week if Sunday's fourth and last NRL qualifying final goes to form.
Despite finishing equal first in the minor premiership and then trouncing Canberra 36-10 in their qualifying final on Saturday night, the Sharks face the prospect of being seriously disadvantaged in the second round of playoffs under the controversial McIntyre system.
Should minor premiers Melbourne account for the New Zealand Warriors at Olympic Park on Sunday afternoon, Cronulla would have to play the Sydney Roosters in next week's sudden-death semi-finals - and Gallen is of the belief such an encounter would be staged at the SFS.
"That's what I was told last night as I was going home," Gallen told 2KY radio on Sunday.
"I was told we will have to play the Sydney Roosters next Friday night at the (Sydney) Football Stadium.
"I don't think that's right at all. Brisbane finished fifth and they get to go and play at (home at) Suncorp Stadium. Go figure that out."
In fact, had the sixth-placed Raiders beaten the third-placed Sharks last night, they too would have clinched a home final in Canberra next week.
And should the eighth-placed Warriors upset the Storm, they would host the Roosters next Friday in New Zealand.
NRL rules, though, state that the winners of four qualifying finals will host the second-week semi-finals at "home city" venues - but not necessarily at individual clubs' home grounds.
Sydney's two designated venues are the SFS and ANZ Stadium and the league will decide after the Melbourne-Warriors match where next week's matches will be played.
NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley was at Toyota Stadium last night and said should a Cronulla-Roosters final materialise, it would be contested at a venue which offered "the best fit".
Annesley said the Sharks would have no say in the matter.
Cronulla coach Ricky Stuart was clearly unimpressed with the prospect of the Roosters - who finished lower than the Sharks in fourth place in the minor premiership and then lost their opening final 24-16 to Brisbane on Friday night - could host his side in a knockout clash.
"Whose decision is it?" Stuart said before vowing to discuss the issue with Sharks chief executive Tony Zappia, who will undoubtedly pursue the matter with the NRL.
Should the Warriors upstage the Storm, the Sharks would have next week off and advance straight to a preliminary final - against either Brisbane or Melbourne, who would clash on Saturday night at Suncorp Stadium.
The vagaries of the McIntyre system dominated the lead-up to the opening weekend of finals, with fans flooding talkback radio with their concerns.
The issue continues to rage, with league legends Andrew Johns and Laurie Daley both raising doubts over the fairness of the format.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,948
Provided today goes to the script, Week 3 is likely to be Melbourne v Brisbane (1 v 5) and Manly v Cronulla or Roosters (2 v 3 or 4)... Can't see the Raiders slipping through. To me that's keeping the best teams in...
 

coolumsharkie

Referee
Messages
26,914
Provided today goes to the script, Week 3 is likely to be Melbourne v Brisbane (1 v 5) and Manly v Cronulla or Roosters (2 v 3 or 4)... Can't see the Raiders slipping through. To me that's keeping the best teams in...

Where are these games being played?
 

Rovelli

Bench
Messages
4,384
8 teams - old system

1 v 4
2 v 3
5 v 8
6 v 7

3 v 6
4 v 5

1 v 4
2 v 3

1 v 2

or 6 teams:

1 v 2
3 v 4
5 v 6

1 - bye
6 - gone
2 v 5
3 v 4

1 v 4
2 v 3

1 v 2

Higher-ranked team from regular season gets home game
 

pcpp

Juniors
Messages
2,266
In your 6 team system, 3rd and 4th play two meaningless matches against each other in the first two weeks as long as 5th and 6th lose as expected.
 

Parraren

Bench
Messages
4,100
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/sharks-captain-livid-at-mcintyre-system-20080914-4g48.html

Sharks captain livid at McIntyre system

Cronulla captain Paul Gallen is filthy after being told the high-flying Sharks must play their opponents on enemy territory next week if Sunday's fourth and last NRL qualifying final goes to form.
Despite finishing equal first in the minor premiership and then trouncing Canberra 36-10 in their qualifying final on Saturday night, the Sharks face the prospect of being seriously disadvantaged in the second round of playoffs under the controversial McIntyre system.
Should minor premiers Melbourne account for the New Zealand Warriors at Olympic Park on Sunday afternoon, Cronulla would have to play the Sydney Roosters in next week's sudden-death semi-finals - and Gallen is of the belief such an encounter would be staged at the SFS.
"That's what I was told last night as I was going home," Gallen told 2KY radio on Sunday.
"I was told we will have to play the Sydney Roosters next Friday night at the (Sydney) Football Stadium.
"I don't think that's right at all. Brisbane finished fifth and they get to go and play at (home at) Suncorp Stadium. Go figure that out."
In fact, had the sixth-placed Raiders beaten the third-placed Sharks last night, they too would have clinched a home final in Canberra next week.
And should the eighth-placed Warriors upset the Storm, they would host the Roosters next Friday in New Zealand.
NRL rules, though, state that the winners of four qualifying finals will host the second-week semi-finals at "home city" venues - but not necessarily at individual clubs' home grounds.
Sydney's two designated venues are the SFS and ANZ Stadium and the league will decide after the Melbourne-Warriors match where next week's matches will be played.
NRL chief operating officer Graham Annesley was at Toyota Stadium last night and said should a Cronulla-Roosters final materialise, it would be contested at a venue which offered "the best fit".
Annesley said the Sharks would have no say in the matter.
Cronulla coach Ricky Stuart was clearly unimpressed with the prospect of the Roosters - who finished lower than the Sharks in fourth place in the minor premiership and then lost their opening final 24-16 to Brisbane on Friday night - could host his side in a knockout clash.
"Whose decision is it?" Stuart said before vowing to discuss the issue with Sharks chief executive Tony Zappia, who will undoubtedly pursue the matter with the NRL.
Should the Warriors upstage the Storm, the Sharks would have next week off and advance straight to a preliminary final - against either Brisbane or Melbourne, who would clash on Saturday night at Suncorp Stadium.
The vagaries of the McIntyre system dominated the lead-up to the opening weekend of finals, with fans flooding talkback radio with their concerns.
The issue continues to rage, with league legends Andrew Johns and Laurie Daley both raising doubts over the fairness of the format.

Similar thing happened last year in week 2 when the Eels faced the Dogs at Homebush despite the Eels being winners in week 1.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,948
Similar thing happened last year in week 2 when the Eels faced the Dogs at Homebush despite the Eels being winners in week 1.

Exactly... while I don't like the idea, the SFS is the best venue this week for that game. The Roosters have had the lions share of home finals over recent years simply due to the SFS being their home ground... why are people only caring now?
 

Crippler

Juniors
Messages
743
Just had a look at the results of the ARL system from 95-96 compared to the current NRL system 1999-2008.


From the First Week FInals

ARL ( AFL ) top 8 System Used in 2 years 1995 and 1996

Games ............Average Winning Score ..................Winning team

1 v 4 ....................3 points ................... ...........Team 1 winning all
2 v 3 ....................5.5 Points .......................Team 2 and 3 winning 1 all
5 v 8 ....................9 Points ............................Team 5 winning all
6 v 7 ....................3 points .........................team 6 and 7 winning 1 all



NRL Mcintryre System used 1999 - 2007

Games ..................Average Winning Score ............... Winning team


1 v 8 .......................22.5 Points ..........................Team 1 winning all
2 v 7 .......................14.1 points .........................Team 2 won 5, Team 7 won 4
3 v 6 ........................16.3 points ..........................Team 3 won 4, Team 6 won 5
4 v 5 ........................12.9 points ........................Team 4 won 6, Team 5 won 3



SUMMARY

Of course the game has changed alot since 95/96 but it is a no brainer and that the above stats provide, is that the quality of games in week 1 of the finals were better with the Old ARL ( AFL) system, and that the NRL finals will be alot more exciting if we change back to the old system.
 
Messages
14,605
So Johnsy, what happens to first spot in Week 2? Can they be knocked out if they lose?

Week 1 (1st advances to Week 2):
2nd v 3rd
4th v 5th
6th v 7th (Loser eliminated)

Week 2:
SF1 1st v Winner 2v3 (winner to GF)
SF2 Loser 2v3 v Winner 4v5 (Loser eliminated)
SF3 Loser 4v5 v Winner 6v7 (Loser eliminated)

Week 3:
PF1 Loser SF1 v Winner SF3 (Loser eliminated)

Week 4:
PF2 Winner SF2 v Winner PF1

GF: Winner SF1 v Winner PF2

That's about the only fair way your system could work - and it would require an extra week to facilitate the twists and turns. If you're going to reduce the top eight, make it six.

Hate the idea. The team who comes 4th can throw their opening week game and get an easy run into week 3, whilst the team who comes 5th, for beating them is guaranteed a harder match to get into week 3. Also first goes into the grand final well underdone.
 

*Paul*

Juniors
Messages
2,151
And so it goes, on and on.. until people can actually internalise that the idea of a finals system in a single division competition is flawed itself, and anything after that tries to paper over that flaw, it wll continue to go on and on.
 

Tyler Durden

Juniors
Messages
2,051
before everyone gets their knickers in a knot -
SFS has been booked for next Sat night by Sydney FC.

so let's all wait for the dust to settle, see where the NRL plonks the games, then we can all start grumbling again
 

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