The annual finals system debate thread

[user_nat]

So in the AFL/ARL system, say team 1 smashes team 4 50 to nil. Team 4 gets another chance.

Then team 8 can beat team 5 by a single point, and team 5 is going home.

How is that any more fair..? How is that different to Manly getting another shot after playing poorly.

 

[Redback71]

The more I think about it the more I dont like it. the Super league is the best 1 going round. 2005 is a classic example of why. Like the Eels and the Dragons get the week off and no 2nd chance, yet the Cowboys who got flogged by the West Tigers the week before get a 2nd chance and defeat the Eels, How is the fair? and go to the Grandfinal. Maybe thay coulod include some kinf of for and against in the finals.

1 and 2 get week off in round 1
1 and 2 play each other in round 2
winner to the grandfinal and looser gets 2nd chance in round 3
round 4 grandfinal.

 

[Shorty]

The more I think about it the more I dont like it. the Super league is the best 1 going round. 2005 is a classic example of why. Like the Eels and the Dragons get the week off and no 2nd chance, yet the Cowboys who got flogged by the West Tigers the week before get a 2nd chance and defeat the Eels, How is the fair?

Um because if the Eels couldn't score a single point in that game how are they more deserving to go to the GF than the Cowboys?

Teams have to go up another level come finals time, yes it's a damn shame they couldn't back up their season with a decent finals performance but that's the fault of the Eels not the system.

Why are people trying to blame the finals system for the sh*tty performances of the teams that stuff up their games?

 

[Redback71]

I know that but the point is the cowboys should have not been given a 2nd chance based on the week before performance. As for the eels the bye probably did them no favours.

 

[Shorty]

Yeah but you would be using preconceived outcomes, what if Manly had come within 2 points of beating Melbourne?

 

[Redback71]

well Manly last night in my opinon should not be given a 2nd chance. No team that has 40 put on them in the finals should. Lets say if the broncos or knights loose but only by 10points or so, as result they should jump ahead of the Eagles.

 

[VictoryFC]

So in the AFL/ARL system, say team 1 smashes team 4 50 to nil. Team 4 gets another chance.

Then team 8 can beat team 5 by a single point, and team 5 is going home.

How is that any more fair..? How is that different to Manly getting another shot after playing poorly.

I think in that case if Team 8 beats Team 5 by 1 point, then they deserve to go through. I mean, how many lifelines do you have to keep offering? Top 4 should be fought for for a reason. After that, the rest are just making up the numbers. At the same time, every team in the top 8 should have SOME chance of winning it. A lot of the time, the difference between 8 and 5 isn't all that large. Its usually 1-3 teams that are ahead of the rest.

Both systems have their merits, although I think the current AFL system favours gives each team 1-8 just about the chance they deserve to win the whole thing.

 

[mickdo]

and how often does that happen you goose? Are you saying team 6 should be banned from getting a second bite in the off chance that team one of the top 2 lose to a minnow (7 and 8)?

One day it will happen, you gimp. And yes, I am saying that 6 should have no second chances, as per the AFL system. How many times do I need to say it? :crazy:

 

[ME SO HORNBY!]

I see a common trend in this thread. Everyone supporting the NRL system seems to think that once the finals come your position on the ladder doesnt matter anymore (e.g. the Dogs could lose tonight then have to play away next week and people are saying if they lose to 7th they deserve to play away. However the Knights who just scraped into the 8 will get a home final if they win tonight even though they finished 7th). That is so stupid. They might as well not play the 26 rounds then. Its a slap in the face to the Dragons and Dogs who have been the best all year. Might as well skip the regular season next year and just play the finals to decide the premiership.

TOP TEAMS DESERVE TO BE REWARDED FOR A GOOD 26 ROUNDS. LOWER TEAMS DESERVE NOTHING APART FROM PLAYING AWAY EVERY WEEK.

 

[Loudstrat]

One day it will happen, you gimp. And yes, I am saying that 6 should have no second chances, as per the AFL system. How many times do I need to say it? :crazy:

Say it as often as you like, I'm not going to agree with you.

And it might happen "one day" - wow. Convincing.
Has it happened yet? I can't recall one. But neither can you, so why change something if it ain't broke ffs?????

I see a common trend in this thread. Everyone supporting the NRL system seems to think that once the finals come your position on the ladder doesnt matter anymore (e.g. the Dogs could lose tonight then have to play away next week and people are saying if they lose to 7th they deserve to play away. However the Knights who just scraped into the 8 will get a home final if they win tonight even though they finished 7th). That is so stupid. They might as well not play the 26 rounds then. Its a slap in the face to the Dragons and Dogs who have been the best all year. Might as well skip the regular season next year and just play the finals to decide the premiership.

TOP TEAMS DESERVE TO BE REWARDED FOR A GOOD 26 ROUNDS. LOWER TEAMS DESERVE NOTHING APART FROM PLAYING AWAY EVERY WEEK.

Top teams do. The top 2 get a guaranteed second bite. The other 6 get a second chance, but the chance diminishes based upon where you finish, and with the top teams get also home ground advantage.
And if team 6, 7, or 8 can win against those odds - (ie playing a better team away in sudden death and winning), they deserve it.

Of course, you could 'reward' the top teams with harder games aka AFL. Now that's fair - Not.

 

[ME SO HORNBY!]

Not saying i like the AFL. But i am saying that the Dragons and Bulldogs do NOT deserve to play away at all this finals series after the season they have had. Especially the Bulldogs who have been great but now have an injury to their playmaker.

 

[18to87]

Lot of good points.

I think we should all just agree that neither system is ideal.

The 7 team system a few pages back, although not perfect, is an improvement. Also the 6 team NFL system is far better than the NRL + AFL. They have 16 teams (per conference) and only the top 6 make it.

1, 2 get the first week off. 3 v 6, 4 v 5. The rest explains itself.

 

[meltiger]

Before you throw 100 years tradition out the door

Using the NSWRL.... Grand Finals haven't been played for 100 years ... Hell we've only had Mandatory GF's for what 60 years? Many different varieties of systems have been used over the years. Not that I'm for first past the post, no way should we be dumping GF's.


I like the system .... It rewards winning finals. Using the system the AFL are currently using/old ARL system, if you finish top 4 and lose in the first week, you then get a home final against teams who won the week before, so it rewards home and away performances more so than finals performances. Depends on your philosophy about what is more important I suppose.


As for the comment about 6th losing their first game and still being able to win the premiership ... If they lose away from home in week 1, they win have to win away from home in weeks 2 & 3 to make the GF ... If a team finishing 6th wins the title after losing in the first week.... You'd have to give credit for what was a fair f**king effort across the last 3 weeks of the season

 

[Loudstrat]

Good points Mel. No way team 4 should have it harder than team 5 as in the stupid AFL one.

 

[meltiger]

Fair enough, but what about Melbourne? They just kicked Manly's a$$ maybe for nothing if Manly is still out there next week! If Saints and the Dogs win then last night may as well have been a practice run/warm up for the finals game.

Disagree, assuming Canterbury win tonight and Saints tomorrow, Melbourne will be playing at Etihad next week .... Had the Storm lost last night ... they'd be off to Sydney/Brisbane



None of the finals are 'meaningless' as some like to out it

 

[ME SO HORNBY!]

I like the system .... It rewards winning finals. Using the system the AFL are currently using/old ARL system, if you finish top 4 and lose in the first week, you then get a home final against teams who won the week before, so it rewards home and away performances more so than finals performances. Depends on your philosophy about what is more important I suppose.

You have put it really well.

NRL rewards winning finals

AFL rewards perfromances over 26 rounds

Might just be me but i think rewarding home and away performance over 26 rounds is the way it has to be. Like i said before, we may as well not play the 26 rounds if the ladder positions are just going to be thrown out the window come 2nd week of finals.

 

[18to87]

Disagree, assuming Canterbury win tonight and Saints tomorrow, Melbourne will be playing at Etihad next week .... Had the Storm lost last night ... they'd be off to Sydney/Brisbane



None of the finals are 'meaningless' as some like to out it

Melbourne at home Week One, Manly away Week One
Melbourne at home Week Two, Manly away Week Two

I still think that if Saints and the Dogs win then last night was a training run. Broncos Vs Titans may as well be a training run too. If the Titans win then what advantage do the Storm and Titans get over Week One? Its the same week all over again, opponents switched, just now its sudden death.

 

[meltiger]

Melbourne at home Week One, Manly away Week One
Melbourne at home Week Two, Manly away Week Two

Because Melbourne won.


Had Melbourne lost, it would be week 2 - Manly home, Melbourne away.


None of the finals are meaningless.

 

[meltiger]

You have put it really well.

NRL rewards winning finals

AFL rewards perfromances over 26 rounds

Might just be me but i think rewarding home and away performance over 26 rounds is the way it has to be. Like i said before, we may as well not play the 26 rounds if the ladder positions are just going to be thrown out the window come 2nd week of finals.

Yeah I know what you meant mate, but as I said, just depends on what your philosophy is.

I see the home and aways as positioning yourself for a crack at September/October. From there, the season starts again and you have to perform in finals to win.

The NRL system vastly outweighs the AFL/ARL one in rewarding those who perform in finals.

Can completely understand those who want to reward the home and away peroformers more so than currently though.


I do find it interesting St George fans seem to be pro-home and away and anti-finals ;-)

 

[brad_19]

Good points Mel. No way team 4 should have it harder than team 5 as in the stupid AFL one.

Team 4 gets it much, much better then team 5. a) they get the double chance and b) if they do lose, they get a home semi-final in week 2. if they manage to win, they get a home prelim. if 5 happens to lose week 1, it's season over and if they win, they play away matches for the rest of the finals. how does 5 get it better?