The annual finals system debate thread

[Saint Doc]

Technically that has nothing to do with the McIntyre system. But I agree, NRL needs to change this.

Nope, it doesn't work. We need to scrap McIntyre all together. In 2009 I would have agreed with you when we (Saints) lost to Parra, and were forced to play sudden death in Brisbane. I didnt think it was fair.

But I've realised giving home advantage to the higher ranked team isnt fair either. We NEED to go back to the AFL system.

Consider these results as a hypothetical:

Dragons d Tigers
Broncos d Warriors
Manly d Cowboys
Knights d Storm

• 1st Semi Final: 4th highest ranked winner vs 2nd highest ranked loser
• 2nd Semi Final: 3rd highest ranked winner vs 1st highest ranked loser

Week 2

Knights vs Tigers
Dragons vs Storm

Under your proposed "higher team retains home advantage", the Dragons, who won their 4v5 game, are rewarded for winning by playing a sudden death game against the minor premiers in Melbourne who are seeking redemption. The Tigers, who LOST the same game, are rewarded for losing by getting another home game, against the 8th placed team who are stoked to have made week 2 and probably wasted all their energy the week before.

Whats the point of a 4v5 game in the case when the winner gets an interstate mission impossible and the loser gets a cushy home second chance?

Its the system that sucks and needs to be changed, not the home advantage. The AFL system just makes sense.

 

[broncos2010]

Lets face it no way storm are going to lose at home this week and I really cant see the Cowboys beating Manly. The games that will actually be very competitive will be the broncos v warriors and off course the big one tigers v dragons.

 

[flamin]

Why can't Melbourne lose? In 08 and 09 team 8 beat team 1. I don't understand how anyone can argue the current system is better than the AFL/old ARL model.

 

[Raiderdave]

Other than the fact that there's four too many teams you mean?

yeah :sarcasm:

lets have the season over & done with .... 6 weeks out from the finals

good one :crazy:

 

[Saint Doc]

They say McIntyre is more exciting. Can anyone tell me this wouldnt be exciting:

Storm vs Tigers (GF preview)
Manly vs Broncos (was a great game last week - repeat in Sydney!)

Dragons vs Knights (esp. with the WB factor)
Warriors vs Cowboys (packed house in NZ)

then assuming rankings hold...

Week 2

Broncos vs Warriors
Tigers vs Dragons

Week 3

Storm vs Broncos
Manly vs Tigers

WHERE ARE THE BAD/"UNEXCITING" GAMES?!

 

[user_nat]

We would have 2 round 26 replays.. that would suck.

 

[gUt]

If people realise that there is a line in the sand drawn after week 26, and that the finals are a new competition wherein the only nod to the regular season is the 'seeding' of teams in week 1, then the Mcintyre system makes perfect sense. Personally I don't care if it's not "fair" that higher ranked teams who lose in week 1 aren't given another home game - either don't lose in week 1 or finish higher after 26 rounds.

 

[BuffaloRules]

The thing I like about the McIntyre system is that it rewards the minor premiers...

All they have to do is beat 8th to go through to the prelim final...

And lets face it ... the minor premiers will win this first game 8 to 9 times out of ten...

 

[SharkShocked]

I think what many people miss when discussing the current system is that regional teams now have a much more significant home ground advantage, particularly when the finals series comes along.

Given the fact that the NRL are now moving games from suburban grounds to accommodate for larger crowds (which i believe should be situational and certainly not a firm rule) some sydney teams have lost their home ground advantage that has been earned through the 26 rounds.

What advantage do the Tigers have by playing at ANZ this week? When compared to Brisbane who are playing at Suncorp or Melbourne at AAMI?

The home ground advantage really is the sticking point with this system and where it gets caught out.

One could argue though that regional teams have to travel every 2nd week throughout the season making it more difficult for them to achieve a higher rank and therefore they are more entitled to their advantage.

The NRL has made it quite clear that the Finals series is a completely new competition and that the rankings you acquire from 26 rounds of footy only last you one week. Given the big deal that is made out of finishing in the top 4 all year i don't believe the current system really rewards the top 4 correctly.

There are quite a few models running around with 8 teams based on the top 5 system, whilst it introduces a 5th week of finals footy it advantages the top 4 teams rather than giving everyone an equal shot to be the best team in week 1 and ride the lucky dip.

Ask yourself this and I'd be very interested to see what people's opinions are.

Could you really stomach a 7v8 grand final?

The NRL are at pains to explain that most team in the finals series can meet any team in the grand final. That's great logically. However there is no way i want to see Newcastle play the Cowboys this year, or any year for that matter.

 

[mepelthwack]

McIntyre is riddled with flaws.

Team 4 or 5 can have 50 put on them and survive, or lose by 1 and be eliminated. We have seen both happen already.

Yet at the same time, team 1 or 2 can massacre 7 or 8 in the first semi, narrowly lose in week 3 and be gone. Again this has happened more than once.

How is it 5 or 6 can get 2 bites of the cherry but 1 and 2 can not (unless they lose week 1) ?

Then there is the whole scenario of week 1 winners getting a tougher game than week 1 losers in week 2 due to the crossover. Seen many times.

Also after week 1, dependent on results, certain gf matchups become impossible because 2 teams end up on the same side of the draw and one will eliminate the other.

There is a top 8 system that eliminates all the above possibilities and it's not the AFL one.

 

[Jason Maher]

Why shouldn't the team which cones out in front after a 6 month long hard slog be given every possible advantage? The problem is having 8 teams in the finals makes it very difficult to properly reward the minor Premiers. That was where the old final 5 was vastly superior. The MP got a double shot at GF qualification, and any of the other 4 teams that wanted to win it would have to beat the MP at some point. To set up an 8 team finals series with similar properties, you'd have to make it longer than 4 weeks. As it is, the ARL/AFL system at least gives all the advantages to the top 4, and every team has 100% of their destiny in their own hands.

@nat: the chance of a round 26 repeat is independent of the finals system.

 

[user_nat]

@nat: the chance of a round 26 repeat is independent of the finals system.

I am aware of that. I was just saying that the example given by Saint Doc wouldn't be very interesting this year.

 

[Saint Doc]

I am aware of that. I was just saying that the example given by Saint Doc wouldn't be very interesting this year.

Really? I always find repeat games intriguing. But yeah the probability of getting one repeat game is so low it's not funny. The fact my example produced two is a glitch in the matrix

 

[Rebel]

How it is at the moment, is the best of a bad situation. How it is done in the Superleague is quite good.
Personally, I'd have a top 6.

First week: 1 and 2 get a week off,
4 v 5
3 v 6

Then in the second week, team 1 plays the lowest rank winner, and team 2 plays the other winner. Week three is the GF.

 

[POPEYE]

Completely serious for a minute. Having an 8 team finals can reward a team who may have had bad luck in the early part of the season

and is in fact just realising it's potential. In other words is a team that should be near the top but is not because of unforeseen occurances.

The trouble is that most teams have genuine bad luck stories and how fair is it to the top teams that have managed their season better?

The final series as it stands is like a speed camera. A money making exercise at the expense of the wrong people.

There must be a way to counteract cynics like myself, make more money and even give middle range teams the chance of recognition

. . . not at the expense of the hard work of the top four teams

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Why don't we just play the whole 16 teams in the finals and use the first part of the year as trials.

Your the type of person that gets handed a $1000 and asks why you didnt get $2000 aren't you?

 

[RedVee]

The team ranked higher after Round 26 should get the home venue in week two of the finals.

agree.
Though I reckon top 7 may be better, gives 1 a week off first up and eliminates the merkins that scrape into 8th winning less than 50%.
First week games the same as now but 1 Friday night, 1 Saturday & 1 Sunday. Also stops the the stupid 8:30 pm kickoff for the 2nd Sat game.

But current system keeps more teams in the hunt for the 8th spot over the last couple of rounds.

 

[POPEYE]

Your the type of person that gets handed a $1000 and asks why you didnt get $2000 aren't you?

If I was to get handed a $1000 I'd slip the bloke 50 for making a dream come true.

You have trouble understanding that I don't like half the teams in a competition getting a second bite at the cherry.

I also don't it when four cars are leading a race by the best part of a lap and the administration likes to keep interest by introducing a pace car when some goose blows a tyre

 

[AlwaysGreen]

If I was to get handed a $1000 I'd slip the bloke 50 for making a dream come true.

You have trouble understanding that I don't like half the teams in a competition getting a second bite at the cherry.

I also don't it when four cars are leading a race by the best part of a lap and the administration likes to keep interest by introducing a pace car when some goose blows a tyre

If a team is good enough they will overcome any obstacle put in front of them. Why are your wanking material Gibson and Bennett seen as the two master coaches of rugby league? Not because they had the ability to coach a side to top spot on the ladder but because they won grand finals.

The final series separates the contenders from the pretenders. That's the reason you don't like it - you're a pretender.

 

[Perth Tiger]

I have no problem with the system. The finals should be all about winning which is what the current system rewards. teams 1 to 4 get an advantage based on there regular season form and teams 5 to 8 get invited to the party.

If you win you keep the advantaged earned in the regular season but if you lose than you lose that advantage and should be thankful if you get a second chance in what is basically a 4 week tournment.