The Bears

[The Great Dane]

I happen to agree with a lot of your points. The game has a lot of problems to address such as an ineffective player market, massive self interest in terms of clubs and media alike, conservative and myopic leadership that is incapable or unwilling to look at the game at a holistic level or recognise opportunities and lastly a complete saturation of Sydney clubs constructed on an archaic model of league clubs and direct junior development which is contrary to how any other professional sport operates. Many, if not all of these, are interconnected and stem from the Sydney competition and how it evolved.

Nevertheless, this is only my opinion and my opinion is formed from my own experiences. The same as Bad Boy Bubby. Now I can disagree with him and I can say that to him but I can see the validity of his points; so long as he respects mine, so why I would be contumelious about my point of view?

Here's the thing about 'opinions', or rather competing ideologies, because that is really what we are talking about; there's a point at which they contradict each other so much that it is impossible for them to coexist harmoniously and if one refuses to stand up for it's self it will simply be consumed by the other.

It's the paradox of tolerance, if you tolerate the intolerable it will simply slowly consume you.

That's why sometimes you have no choice but to be forceful in your opinion, even when it means conflict you'd rather avoid, because if you are not you're dooming yourself to failure, which, broadly speaking, is exactly what has happened to RL in this country.

 

[The Great Dane]

@The Great Dane I also have no problems with yours. I am going to explain something to you here which you probably do not know.
The Sharks as a team name is totally embedded in the Sutherland Shire. Every rep team is called The Sharks. Soccer, Baseball, AFL, Hockey, Netball..... And those are just the ones off the top of my head, plus they all bare the same colours, black, white and blue.
Many businesses have also called themselves Shark with whatever business they are. I saw one today Sharkcrete.
The name "Shark" , MEANS you are from The Shire, and they have all taken it after the Cronulla Sutherland Shark Rugby League Club.
The area will not succumb to having another team taking over the area in the NRL, not for many, many generations.
The name and the colours of our team are deeply entrenched in the whole community, and this community are sports crazy. Not only have the Sharks got the second most participants under the NRL banner, they also have the largest junior soccer participants in the Southern hemisphere. Forget about Scomo (He's not really from there) and his religion, the real religion in the Shire is sport, and the Grandfather of all of them is the Cronulla Sutherland Rugby League Club.
Take that team away and the area will be lost to rugby league, the people will never forget.

That is true of pretty much every culturally significant sports team across the world, i.e. it's not unique to Cronulla at all, and it takes naivety of an astounding level to think that that means that it's eternal. None of it will mean anything if the club doesn't exist anymore, or exists in a different way, and new generations aren't being exposed to it.

With the passing of time all turns to rubble, and the Sharks NRL history would be irrelevant within a generation or so just like Newtown's is and the Bear's pretty much are today, or the BRL clubs for another example.

 

[bad boy bubby]

That is true of pretty much every culturally significant sports team across the world, i.e. it's not unique to Cronulla at all, and it takes naivety of an astounding level to think that that means that it's eternal. None of it will mean anything if the club doesn't exist anymore, or existed in a different way, and new generations weren't being exposed to it.

With the passing of time all turns to rubble, and the Sharks NRL history would be irrelevant within a generation or so just like Newtown's is and the Bear's pretty much are today, or the BRL clubs for another example.

I never said it was unique.
You obviously do not understand the area or its people. They are not North Sydney, who were weak and just laid down.
Souths didn't lie down and they fought their way back.
Norths just went by the wayside, and all their feeble attempts to garnish attention still just made them look weak.
I have plenty of friends who were/are Norths fans. Some of them changed sports to follow, and some of them cling onto their Bears heritage.
I give them credit, none have changed their rugby league team support. That is more weak than anything, changing teams. In the end there just wasn't enough of them, and their traditional area just didn't care.
You can put your hypotheticals out there as much as you want, you do not know the Sharks area or its people, they are not like Bears supporters thats for sure.

 

[T-Boon]

I never said it was unique.
You obviously do not understand the area or its people. They are not North Sydney, who were weak and just laid down.
Souths didn't lie down and they fought their way back.
Norths just went by the wayside, and all their feeble attempts to garnish attention still just made them look weak.

Cronulla fans are pretty weak. They cant even support the team when they move 10kms down the road for the purpose of upgrading the stadium. Don't compare them to Souths whose fans will turnup even if they relocate to 20kms from their area.

 

[T-Boon]

I maintain that the best club to take over the central coast area is the Knights. It would be a very natural "expansion" of the club as the locations are similar and are essentially part of the same area and the people have a chip on the shoulder about Sydney this and that.
In terms of TV ratings it would be somewhat like having a new Sydney team for those big city ratings that the advertisers like (CC is considered sydney metro).
The Knights should have a 10 year plan to make the CC as big of a Knights area as Newcastle and the Hunter is.

 

[Perth Red]

I maintain that the best club to take over the central coast area is the Knights. It would be a very natural "expansion" of the club as the locations are similar and are essentially part of the same area and the people have a chip on the shoulder about Sydney this and that.
In terms of TV ratings it would be somewhat like having a new Sydney team for those big city ratings that the advertisers like (CC is considered sydney metro).
The Knights should have a 10 year plan to make the CC as big of a Knights area as Newcastle and the Hunter is.

Is there any snobbery between gosford and Newcastle? I’m guessing there must be something in the way of it happening, although fanbase and jnrs is not a problem for Knights, more that corporate support is I think?

 

[RedVee]

Is there any snobbery between gosford and Newcastle? I’m guessing there must be something in the way of it happening, although fanbase and jnrs is not a problem for Knights, more that corporate support is I think?

I believe so at the junior RL level. I don’t think too much from general populations, but they’d both probably declare their uniqueness

 

[Colk]

I am from Newcastle. Although I am not a Knights supporter, I couldn’t see the Central Coast adopting the Knights. Nevertheless, CC is big enough for a side, it is a bunch of towns that have been hobbled together to form some form of nebulous whole. Something like Gosford might be big enough in say 20 years to have a side with consideration given to population shifts to these areas from Sydney, but again would you with 10 other sides in NSW? You don’t have to put a side in every corner of Australia (more precisely NSW) to have a presence: go to schools, have the occasional game there

 

[Perth Red]

Again 90% of media advertising spending is in metro markets. The NRL has to move into Perth then Adelaide if it wants to close the gap.

 

[siv]

Interesting how Cronulla A grade clubs have joined the Illawarra comp

 

[T-Boon]

Is there any snobbery between gosford and Newcastle? I’m guessing there must be something in the way of it happening, although fanbase and jnrs is not a problem for Knights, more that corporate support is I think?

Not at all. The only rivalry is down to Mariners v Jets soccer and nobody cares much about that.
Newcastle people do see Central coast as a bit dero but it is fine - maybe like a stinky little brother.
Nobody really is clear about where Newcastle ends and CC starts. Plus there is Lake Macquarie which is probably more Central coastish than Newcastleish but they have totally adopted the Knights.
It is essential the perfect solution to the CC not having a team problem and the only explanation for Central Coast not being rabid Knights fans is laziness and lack of ambition on the Knights part. Just happy with 20k crowds rather than wanting to get to 30k.

 

[T-Boon]

I am from Newcastle. Although I am not a Knights supporter, I couldn’t see the Central Coast adopting the Knights.

they absolutely would if the Knights went hard enough (eg: including CC in the name, take a home game there, train there etc). The knights would already currently be the biggest team on the CC its just it could be 3 times this level of support and there isn't any reason why as many fans from Gosford go to Hunter Stadium as those from Cessnock/Maitland/Singo etc.

 

[Colk]

they absolutely would if the Knights went hard enough (eg: including CC in the name, take a home game there, train there etc). The knights would already currently be the biggest team on the CC its just it could be 3 times this level of support and there isn't any reason why as many fans from Gosford go to Hunter Stadium as those from Cessnock/Maitland/Singo etc.

The problem with putting the Central Coast in the name is wouldn’t it disenfranchise the supporters from the Hunter Valley which is also another region. It would be the same issue as the Dolphins (people from up that way can let me know whether there is exactly a massive difference between the Sunshine Coast but it seems that way) trying to group in different areas when there is very little real connection otherwise

They could just play a few games there, same as the Roosters or Manly could

 

[Perth Red]

The Knights. It’s the new way lol

 

[Colk]

Why stop there? We can go terribly post modern and call every team the something and they can play all around Australia.

 

[bad boy bubby]

Cronulla fans are pretty weak. They cant even support the team when they move 10kms down the road for the purpose of upgrading the stadium. Don't compare them to Souths whose fans will turnup even if they relocate to 20kms from their area.

That's your perspective.
Another perspective is that the NRL wanted to move the team there permanently and the fans have told them to f**k off by showing that they are loyal to their home ground, which we own.
Also, maybe get your comprehension skills in place, I compared Norths to Souths, not Cronulla. You really lost any sort of credibility by showing that you couldn't even read the post properly.

 

[T-Boon]

The problem with putting the Central Coast in the name is wouldn’t it disenfranchise the supporters from the Hunter Valley which is also another region. It would be the same issue as the Dolphins (people from up that way can let me know whether there is exactly a massive difference between the Sunshine Coast but it seems that way) trying to group in different areas when there is very little real connection otherwise

They could just play a few games there, same as the Roosters or Manly could

True, thought the HV is pretty hard core for the Knights. It would take a lot to properly disenfranchise them.

It isn't exactly the same as the Dolphins. The Dolphins scenario is a little worse as it is trying to combine a suburb of one city and what is essentially a completely separate city/town and then also play most home games in a part of the city that isn't even vaguely in either of those.
The Hunter and the Central Coast are very close and there is no obvious separation between them geographically and the city of Newcastle is as close to the CC as it is to most parts of the Hunter. The people are similar and are obviously people who have in some sense rejected living in Sydney.

Maybe go Newcastle CCHV Knights. That "CCHV" would essentially drop away eventually the some as Warringah, Bankstown and Sutherland have but will have done enough to bring CC onboard.

 

[MugaB]

True, thought the HV is pretty hard core for the Knights. It would take a lot to properly disenfranchise them.

It isn't exactly the same as the Dolphins. The Dolphins scenario is a little worse as it is trying to combine a suburb of one city and what is essentially a completely separate city/town and then also play most home games in a part of the city that isn't even vaguely in either of those.
The Hunter and the Central Coast are very close and there is no obvious separation between them geographically and the city of Newcastle is as close to the CC as it is to most parts of the Hunter. The people are similar and are obviously people who have in some sense rejected living in Sydney.

Maybe go Newcastle CCHV Knights. That "CCHV" would essentially drop away eventually the some as Warringah, Bankstown and Sutherland have but will have done enough to bring CC onboard.

Central Coast was a part of tthe Hunter valley up until 2005, then became its own LGA... i would hope regardless of how far Newcastle Knights were, that Manly could take 3 home games there annually, purely coz brookvale is a shithole, and Bluetongue Stadium is a better ground... and also why not.. as the northern eagles they played there too, cant see why 20 years later it would be an issue

 

[T-Boon]

Central Coast was a part of tthe Hunter valley up until 2005, then became its own LGA... i would hope regardless of how far Newcastle Knights were, that Manly could take 3 home games there annually, purely coz brookvale is a shithole, and Bluetongue Stadium is a better ground... and also why not.. as the northern eagles they played there too, cant see why 20 years later it would be an issue

In my opinion Manly taking 3 games there is not as optimal as the Knights taking the area over (unless Manly plan to gradually relocate entirely). The problem with Manly trying to incorporate the CC is that they are obviously different places, there are massive suburbs of sydney and then also wilderness separating the two locations. Nobody from CC would travel to Manly to watch games (certainly not vise versa) where as its only about 45 minutes by train from Gosford to Broadmeadow and if the Knights played a game or 2 at Gosford I would imagine Knights fans would travel on mass.
I guess I am coming from it from the perspective of wanting the Knights to get from 20k crowds to 30k crowds and bigger TV and corporate support which adding a 300k population would do.

 

[RL The greatest game]

Do we consider this a new bid not related to previous Central Coast Bears. Article certainly states so. Think this will get some debate going on this forum haha.
Interesting snippets from article
- Have met Abdo and PVL (We know PVL likes his tribalism)
- Building a centre of excellence somewhere in North Sydney
- Upgrades to NSO
- Not sure about the travelling circus with games around regional NSW. It does remind me a bit of the Brothers NRL bid. Which was going to based in Garage, Brisbane but play home games across country QLD where Brothers clubs existed.

Anyway onto the masses.

Bears reveal bold bid to come out of hibernation as NRL’s 18th team

Just weeks after the Dolphins were handed the NRL’s 17th licence, the Bears are making an audacious bid to return to the top flight.

www.smh.com.au

The NRL doesn't want a new or revamped club in Sydney, but perhaps basing a club playing out of the CC might work. Just saying