The Case for Adelaide.....

[Bring back John Fifita]

Kerrod Walters should have been there last night. He played for Queensland and Adelaide Rams.

The glory days...

 

[LeagueXIII]

Expansion has always come at the detriment of traditional clubs!

You, and Sydney fans in general, never gave a f**k about those clubs as they silently made way for bigger and better things. You were all too focused on your big circle jerk to even notice. But as soon as it was your turn to sacrifice your traditions and clubs for the greater good, well, suddenly tradition was too important to loose.

Lol...the Great Chihuahua is back, and he's angry!!

You completely misunderstand my point...the game must have stability in Sydney to grow it's revenue if you destroy it people will lose interest just as they did during the SL War and the value of the game will decrease. The AFL know the value of Sydney that is why they are spending millions on a dud second team in the hope they are successful. In my opinion they won't be unless RL does something stupid as it did in 1997.

Tradition is an asset not a liability it enriches the sport.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Expansion has always come at the

You are utterly delusional, truly f**king loopy, if you think the sport will die as a commercial product if a few tiny failing clubs from Sydney are replaced.
Why didn't the money dry up after 'Sydney was destroyed' by Norths, Newtown, Glebe, etc, etc, being kicked? Could it be that, in fact, no one club is bigger than the sport!

BTW, stop projecting your backwards attitudes onto other people you don't even know.
The vast majority of RL fans in Canberra, and I'm willing to bet Brisbane and everywhere else, couldn't give a f**k whether or not Manly or any other club is in the NRL.
As long as their club's still kicking around and has somebody to play they'll be fine, just like they were after Newtown, Norths, etc, got the arse.

If you think that RL could have become what it is today off the back of Wests Panthers or Queanbeyan Blues, I think you'd be the delusional one.

Glebe, pleeeeasee, I won't even waste my energy answering such rubbish.

Again you misunderstand, people in other cities love rivalry with the Sydney clubs, they don't support them they love beating them.

Before these out of Sydney clubs existed most people had a Sydney team they followed.

As Don Furner Jnr knew as is mentioned (1hr 14min) in this podcast with ex Canberra journalist Bevan Hannan.

https://play.acast.com/s/therugbyleaguedigest/canberracasestudywithbevanhannan

For the last time I'm all for expansion and for protecting the traditional Sydney clubs, grow the game that way.

By the way Caro's gone a bit quiet on that North move...................

 

[Travitoh]

Smart cookie then.

Why waste money on growth areas when there's already money being wasted in the middle of Dragons territory?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The glory days...

Bringing back the Adelaide Rams, with a few rams on the sideline at their home games, will kill the Warriors. Every Kiwi star will play for unders just to be at the Rams.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If you think that RL could have become what it is today off the back of Wests Panthers or Queanbeyan Blues, I think you'd be the delusional one.

Glebe, pleeeeasee, I won't even waste my energy answering such rubbish.

Again you misunderstand, people in other cities love rivalry with the Sydney clubs, they don't support them they love beating them.

Before these out of Sydney clubs existed most people had a Sydney team they followed.

As Don Furner Jnr knew as is mentioned (1hr 14min) in this podcast with ex Canberra journalist Bevan Hannan.

https://play.acast.com/s/therugbyleaguedigest/canberracasestudywithbevanhannan

For the last time I'm all for expansion and for protecting the traditional Sydney clubs, grow the game that way.

By the way Caro's gone a bit quiet on that North move...................

I reckon the NRL would be stronger if the ARL merged the BRL with the NSWRL in 1988, to create a super competition that retained the tradition and history of both leagues. Most of the game's greatest players were linked to these two competitions. They were the two biggest and strongest leagues in the world in 1987. Super League would never have happened.

The new competition could have been divided into conferences or divisions with promotion and relegation, with a fixed salary cap to make it even. The conference route would have led to the loss of some teams, whereas P&R over 2 or 3 divisions would have allowed all clubs to survive. We'd still have the Bears, Magpies and Balmain, plus the 9 BRL clubs that competed in 1987. The game would have a far larger fanbase in Brisbane and Sydney, with the option of adding teams from Newcastle, Logan, Gold Coast, Townsville, Cairns, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth.

RU would have struggled in Australia when they finally went professional and AwFuL would be a joke in Brisbane and Sydney.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I agree, in a perfect world. I recall when I was younger that RLW in the games 75th year, 1982, did a mock story on how the game would look in 2007, the games 100th year. It was in the summer edition.

The article had 20 clubs in 2 divisions with promotion/relegation.

They had the clubs being:

Valleys
North Brisbane
Darwin
Fremantle
Perth
Adelaide
Canberra
Illawarra
South-East Sydney
New-Campbelltown
Newcastle
and the other 9 Sydney teams

back then Melbourne was considered a million to one.

 

[The Great Dane]

Lol...the Great Chihuahua is back, and he's angry!!

You completely misunderstand my point...the game must have stability in Sydney to grow it's revenue if you destroy it people will lose interest just as they did during the SL War and the value of the game will decrease. The AFL know the value of Sydney that is why they are spending millions on a dud second team in the hope they are successful. In my opinion they won't be unless RL does something stupid as it did in 1997.

Tradition is an asset not a liability it enriches the sport.

I totally understood your point, the problem is it's utter BS, always has been, always will be.

You don't need 9 clubs in Sydney to maintain market share, the suggestion you do is ridiculous considering that half or more of them aren't independently sustainable (i.e. unassailable proof that the market's oversaturated).

The suggestion that a loss of a few teams in the market will lead to calamity is also utter BS. We've lost more than a few teams over the years, and not only has it not crippled the game in Sydney, or abroad, but almost every time it's happened it's lead to a boom period shortly afterwards (even after the SL war). It's almost as if you cut back the deadwood the bush grows back stronger...

Finally, tradition is only an asset so long as it adds value. Considering that half or more of 'the traditional clubs' (BTW I love how 'traditional' and Sydney have become synonymous, it shows what disingenuous hypocrites you are) are financial basket cases at any one time, it's pretty obvious that a lot of the tradition you are trying to pass as valuable is actually acting as massive ball and chain around our necks.

If you think that RL could have become what it is today off the back of Wests Panthers or Queanbeyan Blues, I think you'd be the delusional one.

Glebe, pleeeeasee, I won't even waste my energy answering such rubbish.

Obviously that is a blatant straw man, but it's a very ironic one because it proves a big part of the point I was making.

The fact that you are so quick to dismiss any tradition or traditional club other than a select few shows you don't actually give a f**k about tradition in the slightest, and actually you are only out to protect your club because you think that they are on the chopping block.

The "for sake of tradition" shtick is just a facade that you think is more palatable to a broader audience, and props to you because it's worked for the better part of 50 years now.

Again you misunderstand, people in other cities love rivalry with the Sydney clubs, they don't support them they love beating them.

Before these out of Sydney clubs existed most people had a Sydney team they followed.

As Don Furner Jnr knew as is mentioned (1hr 14min) in this podcast with ex Canberra journalist Bevan Hannan.

https://play.acast.com/s/therugbyleaguedigest/canberracasestudywithbevanhannan

For the last time I'm all for expansion and for protecting the traditional Sydney clubs, grow the game that way.

There's simply no hard evidence that there's a bunch of people outside of Sydney that will revolt because of a team being removed from the comp (aside from supporters of the clubs themselves). All of that line of thought is built on gut feelings, i.e. what people want to believe.

The stark reality is that if people outside of Sydney (or even more specifically people outside of that clubs' fan base) were going to revolt because Sydney clubs were getting the arse then they would have done it by now, especially after the SL war. That didn't happen, and for 95% of them life went on after clubs folded, merged, were murdered, like nothing had happened at all.

By the way Caro's gone a bit quiet on that North move...................

Those AFL club presidents are still pushing for their independent review though, Jeff Kennett's still proposing KPI's for participation in the AFL, and stories about this or that club being pushed out, or this or that person/group in power pushing for change, are still being published yearly.

Keep pretending that it's not happening, and that it's all just one journalist that you don't like making it up (I'd love to know how you think she gets the people on record in her articles to give false quotes?), it just shows how intellectually dishonest you are.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Blah blah, blah.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I reckon the NRL would be stronger if the ARL merged the BRL with the NSWRL in 1988, to create a super competition that retained the tradition and history of both leagues. Most of the game's greatest players were linked to these two competitions. They were the two biggest and strongest leagues in the world in 1987. Super League would never have happened.

The new competition could have been divided into conferences or divisions with promotion and relegation, with a fixed salary cap to make it even. The conference route would have led to the loss of some teams, whereas P&R over 2 or 3 divisions would have allowed all clubs to survive. We'd still have the Bears, Magpies and Balmain, plus the 9 BRL clubs that competed in 1987. The game would have a far larger fanbase in Brisbane and Sydney, with the option of adding teams from Newcastle, Logan, Gold Coast, Townsville, Cairns, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth.

RU would have struggled in Australia when they finally went professional and AwFuL would be a joke in Brisbane and Sydney.

A creation of an ARL comp in the 80's with the best BRL and NSWRL clubs is exactly what should have happened instead of adding new teams to the NSWRL.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

A creation of an ARL comp in the 80's with the best BRL and NSWRL clubs is exactly what should have happened instead of adding new teams to the NSWRL.

Sounds a decent idea in theory but many reasons it would never have got off the ground. neither state would have budged an inch for starters.

Back then, NSW was also where the money was at... thank pokies. It dwarfed the BRL on a number of accounts. It’s also why they originally put the Gold Coast Giants on the tweed... to get pokie revenue...

But what kept the game going for so long (pokie revenue) isn’t what will take it further. It’s crowds, members, eyeballs on screens. Not pokies. That’s where expansion, planned and managed correctly, will take the game further..

 

[Perth Red]

I totally understood your point, the problem is it's utter BS, always has been, always will be.

You don't need 9 clubs in Sydney to maintain market share, the suggestion you do is ridiculous considering that half or more of them aren't independently sustainable (i.e. unassailable proof that the market's oversaturated).

The suggestion that a loss of a few teams in the market will lead to calamity is also utter BS. We've lost more than a few teams over the years, and not only has it not crippled the game in Sydney, or abroad, but almost every time it's happened it's lead to a boom period shortly afterwards (even after the SL war). It's almost as if you cut back the deadwood the bush grows back stronger...

Finally, tradition is only an asset so long as it adds value. Considering that half or more of 'the traditional clubs' (BTW I love how 'traditional' and Sydney have become synonymous, it shows what disingenuous hypocrites you are) are financial basket cases at any one time, it's pretty obvious that a lot of the tradition you are trying to pass as valuable is actually acting as massive ball and chain around our necks.

Obviously that is a blatant straw man, but it's a very ironic one because it proves a big part of the point I was making.

The fact that you are so quick to dismiss any tradition or traditional club other than a select few shows you don't actually give a f**k about tradition in the slightest, and actually you are only out to protect your club because you think that they are on the chopping block.

The "for sake of tradition" shtick is just a facade that you think is more palatable to a broader audience, and props to you because it's worked for the better part of 50 years now.

There's simply no hard evidence that there's a bunch of people outside of Sydney that will revolt because of a team being removed from the comp (aside from supporters of the clubs themselves). All of that line of thought is built on gut feelings, i.e. what people want to believe.

The stark reality is that if people outside of Sydney (or even more specifically people outside of that clubs' fan base) were going to revolt because Sydney clubs were getting the arse then they would have done it by now, especially after the SL war. That didn't happen, and for 95% of them life went on after clubs folded, merged, were murdered, like nothing had happened at all.

Those AFL club presidents are still pushing for their independent review though, Jeff Kennett's still proposing KPI's for participation in the AFL, and stories about this or that club being pushed out, or this or that person/group in power pushing for change, are still being published yearly.

Keep pretending that it's not happening, and that it's all just one journalist that you don't like making it up (I'd love to know how you think she gets the people on record in her articles to give false quotes?), it just shows how intellectually dishonest you are.

havebto agree, if clubs were thriving and the game was growing and in a secure enough place to expand then you’d be wrong. But its clear NRL isn’t any of those things. We hang on to clubs under tradition and rivallary and tribalism despite most of these clubs not even being able to attract 20k people to care enough to become members or show up at games regularly.
Ideally we’d have the resources and viable clubs to be able to expand to 20 then 22 then whatever, but we aren’t even close, we don’t even have enough security to expand by one club in the games heartland in an under serviced city!! so we stay as we are hoping doing the same thing one days achieves something different or we get radical. Nothing new in that idea, it was first muted in the early 80’s by the games controllers!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

A creation of an ARL comp in the 80's with the best BRL and NSWRL clubs is exactly what should have happened instead of adding new teams to the NSWRL.

It's a pity the NSW Gov legalised pokies in the mid-50s, whereas Queensland Gov didn't do it until the 90s. That's what killed the BRL.

I think it was bad how NSWRL raided the BRL in the 80s, knowing that the best players of that era were unearthed in the Brisbane competition but those teams couldn't compete in a bidding war due to their lack of pokies. BRL clubs bankrupted themselves trying to hold onto them and it killed a great competition. The game has been poorer as a result. It was short-sighted and vindictive, and I believe it was a "get square" for Queensland dominating Origin and having a Combined Brisbane team that won the national knock-out competition. NSWRL did something similar over a decade ago when they threw a tantrum over Sydney clubs aligning themselves with the Queensland Cup because it built itself up as the premier second-tier competition.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

havebto agree, if clubs were thriving and the game was growing and in a secure enough place to expand then you’d be wrong. But its clear NRL isn’t any of those things. We hang on to clubs under tradition and rivallary and tribalism despite most of these clubs not even being able to attract 20k people to care enough to become members or show up at games regularly.
Ideally we’d have the resources and viable clubs to be able to expand to 20 then 22 then whatever, but we aren’t even close, we don’t even have enough security to expand by one club in the games heartland in an under serviced city!! so we stay as we are hoping doing the same thing one days achieves something different or we get radical. Nothing new in that idea, it was first muted in the early 80’s by the games controllers!

The next Sydney club that goes bust should be forced to relocate. Under no circumstance should the ARLC bail them out unless their board is removed and they base themselves out of Adelaide or Brisbane or NZ or Perth. Their fans will still get to see them play in Sydney against the other 8 clubs.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

The next Sydney club that goes bust should be forced to relocate. Under no circumstance should the ARLC bail them out unless their board is removed and they base themselves out of Adelaide or Brisbane or NZ or Perth. Their fans will still get to see them play in Sydney against the other 8 clubs.

Which club do you reckon would be most likely to hit the wall?

Sydney Roosters
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles
Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
St George Illawarra Dragons
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
Wests Tigers
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers

 

[Perth Red]

Which club do you reckon would be most likely to hit the wall?

Sydney Roosters
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles
Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
St George Illawarra Dragons
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
Wests Tigers
Parramatta Eels
Penrith Panthers

none of them should whilst the nrl is giving them $13mill a year and keeping the main expense down to $10mill.
Manly would be most at risk given there very low fanbase revenue generation and lack of pokie prop up. If pokies ever dry up then there’s a few clubs would be in strife but people are generally stupid so unlikely that will happen.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

none of them should whilst the nrl is giving them $13mill a year and keeping the main expense down to $10mill.
Manly would be most at risk given there very low fanbase revenue generation and lack of pokie prop up. If pokies ever dry up then there’s a few clubs would be in strife but people are generally stupid so unlikely that will happen.

I wonder, after the dust has settled on 2020, what that level of financial support will be.

Could it be reducing the support but incentivising relocation, or even mergers...... a hark back to days of the past.

How can these Sydney Clubs stand on their own two feet. Where is there revenue increase and/or profitability going to come from. I'm sure the NRL will help guide where they can but surely financial handouts at the level of recent times will be targetted to reduce.

Personally I'd hate to see any of these clubs simply die. But if 2020 has taught us anything it's that the world isn't the same place it used to be, and to rely on financial support as a line-item on your budget just isn't good enough. Unless they go to ScoMo to apply for Jobkeeper - so I suppose the Sharks are all good for a while yet.

 

[Perth Red]

I wonder, after the dust has settled on 2020, what that level of financial support will be.

Could it be reducing the support but incentivising relocation, or even mergers...... a hark back to days of the past.

How can these Sydney Clubs stand on their own two feet. Where is there revenue increase and/or profitability going to come from. I'm sure the NRL will help guide where they can but surely financial handouts at the level of recent times will be targetted to reduce.

Personally I'd hate to see any of these clubs simply die. But if 2020 has taught us anything it's that the world isn't the same place it used to be, and to rely on financial support as a line-item on your budget just isn't good enough. Unless they go to ScoMo to apply for Jobkeeper - so I suppose the Sharks are all good for a while yet.

Vlandys is a Sydney suburb mentality. No one is going to be encouraged to do anything whilst he’s in charge.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Vlandys is a Sydney suburb mentality. No one is going to be encouraged to do anything whilst he’s in charge.

Sydney-centric, perhaps...

But if he can see (ie - if he is proposed) a genuine pioneering opportunity with a solid business case and capability to reap financial success - he'll be the first person to take genuine interest in it. I just doubt he's been proposed it yet.

"Wasting money on rusted-on states" ..

That doesn't mean he's completely against expansion outside NSW/QLD.....

It means he doesn't want to waste money...which is absolutely smart.

Not wasting money is a PVL must. Investing wisely is more the point. And if a business case for Adelaide/Perth proves a wise investment - he'll be the first person to take it on.

 

[The Great Dane]

none of them should whilst the nrl is giving them $13mill a year and keeping the main expense down to $10mill.
Manly would be most at risk given there very low fanbase revenue generation and lack of pokie prop up. If pokies ever dry up then there’s a few clubs would be in strife but people are generally stupid so unlikely that will happen.

That's the craziest thing about it isn't it.

At the expense of other important areas of the game the NRL/ARL/NSWRL has spent money it can't afford, especially not now after covid, propping up businesses that would otherwise be insolvent.

Can you imagine any other business doing that, it's honestly insane.