The Case for Adelaide.....

[MugaB]

Every Expansionist seems to forget that Rugby League in this country and nz as in the NRL, grew out of the NSWRL, which had been expanding roughly every 20 years, from st greorge in 21, dogs in 35, manly/parra n 47, then penrith/cronulla 67, then expansion into more towns and cities and more states plus Auckland by 95...
We don't nessesarely NEED a national footprint, we definitely need pathways from all areas around aus and the Pacific, but we dont need to have a club in every major populated city, although we had it in between 1997 and 1998, we seemed to forget that the centre of the attraction of this comp is the Sydney Clubs, and to an extent Canberra and Newcastle, the other clubs around that circle in Qld, Vic and NZ are nice to haves, but are only are an attraction to themselves, i very much doubt, many sydney folks care about melbourne vs north qld, unless you are from either area. But in sydney the attraction of any sydney club, verse an interstate or regional club draws attention. The NRLs strength is its Heartland clubs from the traditional NSWRL, i would have hoped that in 1988 when we expanded into QLD that we added existing BRL teams not the Broncos and Giants, this would have created a 2nd NSWRL style group of Heartland clubs in another obvious heartland city, which only now we are realizing needs more representation.
Rationalisation is not the way we grow the sport, 1999 NRL already proved that, by mergers and booting souths, we crippled the sydney foot print as well as driving fans away, and facts figures and business drivel won't change that, i hope we continue to expand in 2023 by 1 or 2 clubs, then again in maybe 2040 im sure by then RL will be either stable enough to cater for more clubs

 

[mongoose]

Every Expansionist seems to forget that Rugby League in this country and nz as in the NRL, grew out of the NSWRL, which had been expanding roughly every 20 years, from st greorge in 21, dogs in 35, manly/parra n 47, then penrith/cronulla 67, then expansion into more towns and cities and more states plus Auckland by 95...
We don't nessesarely NEED a national footprint, we definitely need pathways from all areas around aus and the Pacific, but we dont need to have a club in every major populated city, although we had it in between 1997 and 1998, we seemed to forget that the centre of the attraction of this comp is the Sydney Clubs, and to an extent Canberra and Newcastle, the other clubs around that circle in Qld, Vic and NZ are nice to haves, but are only are an attraction to themselves, i very much doubt, many sydney folks care about melbourne vs north qld, unless you are from either area. But in sydney the attraction of any sydney club, verse an interstate or regional club draws attention. The NRLs strength is its Heartland clubs from the traditional NSWRL, i would have hoped that in 1988 when we expanded into QLD that we added existing BRL teams not the Broncos and Giants, this would have created a 2nd NSWRL style group of Heartland clubs in another obvious heartland city, which only now we are realizing needs more representation.
Rationalisation is not the way we grow the sport, 1999 NRL already proved that, by mergers and booting souths, we crippled the sydney foot print as well as driving fans away, and facts figures and business drivel won't change that, i hope we continue to expand in 2023 by 1 or 2 clubs, then again in maybe 2040 im sure by then RL will be either stable enough to cater for more clubs

This doesn't make any sense. The game is not just a Sydney comp. You say people in Sydney don't care about Storm vs Cowboys, but nor do people in QLD, Vic, NZ care much about Sharks vs Sea Eagles. What do you think Channel 9 pay the big money for? Origin and Friday night Broncos. Not endless Sydney derbies.

 

[adamkungl]

We don't nessesarely NEED a national footprint,

stopped reading here

 

[Perth Red]

This doesn't make any sense. The game is not just a Sydney comp. You say people in Sydney don't care about Storm vs Cowboys, but nor do people in QLD, Vic, NZ care much about Sharks vs Sea Eagles. What do you think Channel 9 pay the big money for? Origin and Friday night Broncos. Not endless Sydney derbies.

TBF theres not many people in Sydney that care about Sharks V Manly! Out of 22million Australians there really isnt many that are interested in a couple of sydney suburbs going toe to toe (Sydney FTA audiences are sub 200k some games!!).
Time marches on and the old NSWRL suburban comp that MugaB thinks is the B all and end all of RL is in fact diminishing every year. Its no surprise Brisbane, Melbourne, Parra etc are the teams with the biggest fanbases and the biggest TV audiences. That's the problem with village mentality tribalism, its irrelevant in the globalised 21st Century.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If you've turned your nose up at Brisbane and then the Gold Coast, then why is Brisbane 2 going to all of a sudden sort out your issues on who to support?

It's nice to have rivalries, but very little people will care about Brisbane 2. There aren't that many fans "up for grabs". You either go for Brisbane or go for some other team. Fans of other teams might likely say that Brisbane 2 would be their second team, but does that equate to attendance every 2nd week? I don't think so.

If Brisbane still suck when Brisbane 2 come in, they might get some early flip flop fans through the gates, especially if they start out winning. But if they suck, or Brisbane get good again, those fans will be Brisbane fans again.

Get on board with the Brisbane Broncos mate. Good time to get on board, you can say you were there through the hard times.

Never!

I am a NQ Cowboy and WM Seagull through and through, but I would adopt Brisbane 2 as a 2nd team and become a season ticketed member if it's a BRL club and represents the true history of Brisbane RL. I HATE the Broncos for what they did to the BRL clubs in the 80s and 90s. Clubs in Brisbane folded because the Broncos rescinded on the financial agreement they made to the BRL clubs when they entered the NSWRL in 1988. Not one cent of money owed was paid. There's more they did to kill the competition, like playing home games at Lang Park at 3pm Sunday, which was when all BRL games were played and they had agreed not to do this before entering the NSWRL.

The Broncos, with the help of idiots like Quayle and Arthurson, have done more to hold back RL in Brisbane than anyone else. Fumbleball and onionball love having just one pro RL team to compete against for media attention and corporate dollars.

I want the Broncos to either die or become a perennial bottom of the ladder club, so that everyone they've harmed over the years can look forward to seeing the cheats lose each week. May 2020 never end!

Bring in another 2 Brisbane clubs, from the BRL, and RL in Queensland and the country will prosper.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The problem is the NRL is not truly independent. It's broadcast partners, big money stakeholders and clubs want to keep the status quo which is a relatively cheaply run suburban NSW/QLD comp with a massive hyped up State of Origin every year. Sadly the clubs are happy with this status quo as well and so it will continue until theres a big shakeup....

That's exactly the situation. RL politics is very complex and nasty. Getting the ARLC, QRL, NSWRL, NZRL and 16 clubs, plus the broadcasters, to agree on expanding into Adelaide and Perth and funding grassroots development in these places is like asking all devout religious people to shut down their places of worship and give up their beliefs.

I can see Brisbane 2 and 3 getting in as they will bring money to the table, which is the only thing clubs, governing bodies and broadcasters agree on. NZ 2 and possibly 3 might get in if they can grow the NZ broadcast rights.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Every Expansionist seems to forget that Rugby League in this country and nz as in the NRL, grew out of the NSWRL, which had been expanding roughly every 20 years, from st greorge in 21, dogs in 35, manly/parra n 47, then penrith/cronulla 67, then expansion into more towns and cities and more states plus Auckland by 95...
We don't nessesarely NEED a national footprint, we definitely need pathways from all areas around aus and the Pacific, but we dont need to have a club in every major populated city, although we had it in between 1997 and 1998, we seemed to forget that the centre of the attraction of this comp is the Sydney Clubs, and to an extent Canberra and Newcastle, the other clubs around that circle in Qld, Vic and NZ are nice to haves, but are only are an attraction to themselves, i very much doubt, many sydney folks care about melbourne vs north qld, unless you are from either area. But in sydney the attraction of any sydney club, verse an interstate or regional club draws attention. The NRLs strength is its Heartland clubs from the traditional NSWRL, i would have hoped that in 1988 when we expanded into QLD that we added existing BRL teams not the Broncos and Giants, this would have created a 2nd NSWRL style group of Heartland clubs in another obvious heartland city, which only now we are realizing needs more representation.
Rationalisation is not the way we grow the sport, 1999 NRL already proved that, by mergers and booting souths, we crippled the sydney foot print as well as driving fans away, and facts figures and business drivel won't change that, i hope we continue to expand in 2023 by 1 or 2 clubs, then again in maybe 2040 im sure by then RL will be either stable enough to cater for more clubs

I agree with this. Arthurson and Quayle will go down as the biggest idiots in the history of the game. Their grand plan was to kill the competition that produced the best players of the 1980s, replaced it with a bastardised team named after an American football side that Barry Maranta supported, then walked around saying their mess was expansion.

The BRL's origins date back to 1908, but those two old fools decided to just throw it down the shitter for one lousy team. That bastardised team they created then went on to almost kill the NSWRL/ARL and cost Arthurson and Quayle their jobs.

RL has been poorer in Brisbane as a result of the BRL'S loss. People who were around to enjoy it during its hey day all say the Broncos don't do it for them. I'm 35 and only saw the aftermath of it during the 90s, but I could see just how great it was and what Brisbane lost.

Now there's all this stupid talk about a Brisbane GF. We had that from 1909-1987. The Broncos killed it. If the ARLC has any brains it will fix the mess created by Arthurson and Quayle, as it's been festering on for 32 years and won't tidy itself. I'm convinced the only reason they did it was because Combined Brisbane won the National Knock Out Cup and Wynnum Manly Seagulls were the best team in the world.

 

[The Great Dane]

Never!

I am a NQ Cowboy and WM Seagull through and through, but I would adopt Brisbane 2 as a 2nd team and become a season ticketed member if it's a BRL club and represents the true history of Brisbane RL.

And unless it's Wynnum Manly that gets an NRL license you'll find the first excuse to abandon Brisbane 2 as soon as there is any sign of trouble.

This is why ex-BRL/QRL fans should never be the new club's target audience, there's too much baggage, and that baggage only appeals to a tiny minority.

I HATE the Broncos for what they did to the BRL clubs in the 80s and 90s. Clubs in Brisbane folded because the Broncos rescinded on the financial agreement they made to the BRL clubs when they entered the NSWRL in 1988. Not one cent of money owed was paid. There's more they did to kill the competition, like playing home games at Lang Park at 3pm Sunday, which was when all BRL games were played and they had agreed not to do this before entering the NSWRL.

The Broncos, with the help of idiots like Quayle and Arthurson, have done more to hold back RL in Brisbane than anyone else. Fumbleball and onionball love having just one pro RL team to compete against for media attention and corporate dollars.

I want the Broncos to either die or become a perennial bottom of the ladder club, so that everyone they've harmed over the years can look forward to seeing the cheats lose each week. May 2020 never end!

Bring in another 2 Brisbane clubs, from the BRL, and RL in Queensland and the country will prosper.

The BRL were not innocent in their relationship with the Broncos, the Broncos didn't have control over the NSWRL's draw, and next to nobody gives a f**k about the BRL anymore.

The arrogance it takes to think that what happens in Queensland will have a major positive impact on the sport more nationally is astounding as well!

 

[The Great Dane]

This doesn't make any sense. The game is not just a Sydney comp. You say people in Sydney don't care about Storm vs Cowboys, but nor do people in QLD, Vic, NZ care much about Sharks vs Sea Eagles. What do you think Channel 9 pay the big money for? Origin and Friday night Broncos. Not endless Sydney derbies.

If there's anything we should learn from the over saturation of Sydney it's that derbies aren't special or interesting if they happen every week.

 

[reanimate]

Yeh splitting it horizontally with Manly spreading into norhern half and Roosters linking with Bears permenantly and spreading into southern half would seem logical, probably why it will never happen!

Exactly.

Not sure Ive seen much innovation from Manly though to spread the wings into adjoining locations at NRL club level?

Maybe use the A8 and Warringah Road as the boundary lines?

It’s a long story, but it’s been tried. The Bears threw a massive tantrum over it and went running to the NRL to stop Manly from going any further. The NRL took their usual sitting on their hands approach and refused to endorse Manly doing anything with the Norths district. Since then, every club that could theoretically ‘take over’ the area has held back, even the Bears’ partner clubs. Are the Bears coming back in some form? Will they be allowed to maintain their hold over their NSWRL district in their new guise? No one knows, no one is given any answers. As such, the status quo of the Norths district existing in an awkward partnership with an NRL club remains and RL continues to die there.

As for the theoretical boundary, Warringah Rd becomes Boundary St, which would be the natural boundary between an upper and lower North Shore territory split. Turn left at the end for Roosters territory, turn right for Manly.

 

[pennywisealfie]

RL has been poorer in Brisbane as a result of the BRL'S loss. People who were around to enjoy it during its hey day all say the Broncos don't do it for them.

This is major hyperbole. When I was young, we lived a few blocks from Kougari Oval. Dad was a massive Wynnum fan and went to every home game.He's also been a massive Broncos fan since 1988. Dad's mates who were all massive Redcliffe fans, are Broncos season ticket holders.

Yes, there are people that dislike the Broncos because the popularity of the BRL died when Brisbane joined the Sydney comp. However, to say that everyone who was a fan of Brisbane Rugby League before 1988 now hates the Broncos is a bit much.

 

[The Great Dane]

This is major hyperbole. When I was young, we lived a few blocks from Kougari Oval. Dad was a massive Wynnum fan and went to every home game.He's also been a massive Broncos fan since 1988. Dad's mates who were all massive Redcliffe fans, are Broncos season ticket holders.

Yes, there are people that dislike the Broncos because the popularity of the BRL died when Brisbane joined the Sydney comp. However, to say that everyone who was a fan of Brisbane Rugby League before 1988 now hates the Broncos is a bit much.

It's a stretch to blame the Broncos for the BRL's downfall as well.

The Broncos were the final nail in the coffin, but the BRL had been terminally ill for a while before they showed up.

Costs were going up, revenue was going down, and as a result most of the BRL clubs were flat broke and couldn't compete with the money in NSW, so most of their star players were heading south which further added to an extinction vortex that they weren't getting out of.

 

[pennywisealfie]

Well said. The Brisbane clubs couldn't keep up since Sir Joh had banned the pokies and the Sydney leagues clubs were bringing in the revenue. Not to mention, Wally Lewis and Gene Miles (very likely a few others) were on record saying that they would have signed for a Sydney club (Manly, I believe) if the Broncos weren't introduced.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is major hyperbole. When I was young, we lived a few blocks from Kougari Oval. Dad was a massive Wynnum fan and went to every home game.He's also been a massive Broncos fan since 1988. Dad's mates who were all massive Redcliffe fans, are Broncos season ticket holders.

Yes, there are people that dislike the Broncos because the popularity of the BRL died when Brisbane joined the Sydney comp. However, to say that everyone who was a fan of Brisbane Rugby League before 1988 now hates the Broncos is a bit much.

I don't think all BRL fans hate the Broncos the way I do. I just don't think they care for them as much as they did their BRL club.

There's a podcast on YouTube called When They Were Kings. It's about the BRL. They pretty much agreed in their pre-launch episode that the Broncos vs Cowboys games at Lang Park are a high standard, but it's not the same feeling as the old BRL. That's what I meant when I said Broncos "don't do it for them". I recall Wayne Bennett saying something similar in a documentary about the BRL that's on YouTube.

Well said. The Brisbane clubs couldn't keep up since Sir Joh had banned the pokies and the Sydney leagues clubs were bringing in the revenue. Not to mention, Wally Lewis and Gene Miles (very likely a few others) were on record saying that they would have signed for a Sydney club (Manly, I believe) if the Broncos weren't introduced.

The poker machine ban was lifted by the Wayne Goss Labor Gov not too long after Sir Joh was voted out. The reason Tweed Heads Seagulls Leagues went bust in the 90s was because all the oldies from the Goldie no longer had to travel across the border to play the pokies.

The 60 best players were taken out of the BRL in 1988. That's a huge drop in class.

I think the NSW Gov legalised poker machines back in the 50s. WA Gov still has them banned, which doesn't bode well for a Perth team.

 

[mongoose]

Well said. The Brisbane clubs couldn't keep up since Sir Joh had banned the pokies and the Sydney leagues clubs were bringing in the revenue. Not to mention, Wally Lewis and Gene Miles (very likely a few others) were on record saying that they would have signed for a Sydney club (Manly, I believe) if the Broncos weren't introduced.

It's why the Gold Coast Giants base was Tweed Heads, so they could have a pokie palace just over the NSW border.

 

[greenBV4]

I think the NSW Gov legalised poker machines back in the 50s. WA Gov still has them banned, which doesn't bode well for a Perth team.

I think reliance on poker machines is becoming and should be a thing of the past, with the way society is going I wouldn't be too surprised if we start seeing more bans/restrictions come in on them.

I remeber reading a year or so ago that many AFL clubs are anticipating this to eventually happen and are starting to phase out reliance on pokies, Storm also sold of the last of there licenses last year, so maybe it's just a Victorian thing, but I think south's no longer take pokie income from there leagues club either

I think within the next decade we might start to see them only allowed in casinos, or other licensed venues at a much more limited capacity. Any business (or NRL club) who's survival depends on gambling money may be looking a bit dire if this is the case

 

[Perth Red]

If a club has to rely on creating social misery from pokie machines to be relevant then it doesnt deserve to be a top flight professional sports club. The sooner clubs get off this lazy money and generate football operations revenue that sustains them the better the game will be for it.

One of the wealthiest football club in AFL and two of the of the most profitable in NRL dont have pokie machine income. There's something to consider!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think reliance on poker machines is becoming and should be a thing of the past, with the way society is going I wouldn't be too surprised if we start seeing more bans/restrictions come in on them.

I remeber reading a year or so ago that many AFL clubs are anticipating this to eventually happen and are starting to phase out reliance on pokies, Storm also sold of the last of there licenses last year, so maybe it's just a Victorian thing, but I think south's no longer take pokie income from there leagues club either

I think within the next decade we might start to see them only allowed in casinos, or other licensed venues at a much more limited capacity. Any business (or NRL club) who's survival depends on gambling money may be looking a bit dire if this is the case

It will be interesting to see the impact it has on Sydney clubs if a ban is introduced in NSW. Pokies gave the NSWRL clubs a massive advantage over the BRL clubs from thr 50s to the 90s.

 

[flippikat]

Every Expansionist seems to forget that Rugby League in this country and nz as in the NRL, grew out of the NSWRL, which had been expanding roughly every 20 years, from st greorge in 21, dogs in 35, manly/parra n 47, then penrith/cronulla 67, then expansion into more towns and cities and more states plus Auckland by 95...

...therefore every Sydney suburb has to have a club in a 21st Century trans-Tasman competition, yeah?

I'd love to have the privilege of multiple top-tier clubs here in Wellington.. but y'know, I'd settle for ONE.... is that OK?

 

[flippikat]

It will be interesting to see the impact it has on Sydney clubs if a ban is introduced in NSW. Pokies gave the NSWRL clubs a massive advantage over the BRL clubs from thr 50s to the 90s.

I think that's certainly the way forward for clubs. Pokies have been as much a crutch as a revenue stream (maybe more), and if curtailing them - and the damage they do to communities - forces clubs to find more constructive revenue streams, it's a GOOD THING.

If it also means some clubs have to relocate to open other revenue streams & stay in the top tier, so be it - the game will benefit from a wider footprint. We just have to be sure that the NRL co-ordinates things to re-zone Sydney appropriately to cater to any changes in the top tier. A big ask, but necessary.